the skeptics yeast thread...for skeptics by skeptics

[Pebbbles]

You cannot compare a vaginal yeast infection to a Systemic Yeast Infection! Apples and Oranges. That's like comparing a cold virus to the AIDS virus.

And even if this were true, please explain in scientific and medical terms, how, metabolically, yeast overgrowth would cause one to not burn calories.

[SkinnySoon]

There was nothing in what I said that was a bash unless you consider someone expressing an opinion and opening a topic "bashing"...you do not always have to be in favor of a topic to want to talk about it..if you read all I said you would hear that I am open just not at all convinced

I can respect that. It was my passion about this topic that got me slightly defensive. I can admit when I'm wrong... and this time, I am. I do understand where you're coming from, because I'm usually the biggest skeptic about the new magic pill, or the new miracle diet, etc... When I've got a little more time, I'll see if I can find some solid clinical studies to help back it up.

[SkinnySoon]

Ya know... I might be wrong about the way I approached you on the topic... but I think you're really pushing the envelope with your lovely new title. There are alot nicer ways to express that you don't believe while on a board created to support people who are looking for help.

[2big4mysize]

You cannot compare a vaginal yeast infection to a Systemic Yeast Infection! Apples and Oranges. That's like comparing a cold virus to the AIDS virus.

And even if this were true, please explain in scientific and medical terms, how, metabolically, yeast overgrowth would cause one to not burn calories.

first part it is the exact same organism and gotten in the same manner, the body on antibiotics kills off the normal healthy bacteria living there and their alterations to the body region are now no longer in place, this allows the candida to grow rapidly and occupy the area causing the sysptoms.

As to the slowing of weight loss when your body doesn't work right from any type of infection bacteria,viral or candida our bodies those invading organism can have a multitude of effects on us depending on what chemicals are involved. Some yeasts are deadly if ingested. this one just happens to cause the symptoms listed in chapter 20 of your DANDR.

[pammie]

I just want to add a little note to this thread, which by the way I am enjoying and learning from immensely.

That is, we are are support board. The reason this forum was created was to support everyone who comes here.
Yes, we know that there are people out there who do not believe Candida is a major problem, and we know that there are people who do believe that it is a problem.

there is no problem voicing your feelings or concerns, and in fact I really appreciate nurselady and pebbles stepping up and giving us their opinion. I personally, want to know ALL sides to an issue that concerns me. So, this thread has been very interesting for me.

But, before this thread deteriorates into something that is not very supportive or informative, I just want to remind everyone why we are here.

thanks everyone who contributes to this thread. :hug

[Desertthorn]

Guys it was me who asked Nurselady to change the title and unfortunately I was the author. Her "I promise" didn't really reflect what the post was about but neither was my suggestion, unfortuately. I just wanted her to say in the thread. I think you guys are being fed a magic bean. So, dont go after nurselady
We need to understand that not everyone believes in yeast and that was why I asked her to change it.

[2big4mysize]

your statement nurselady

There was nothing in what I said that was a bash unless you consider someone expressing an opinion and opening a topic "bashing"...you do not always have to be in favor of a topic to want to talk about it..if you read all I said you would hear that I am open just not at all convinced

seems out of line with your new title. Calling it a load of crap sure sounds bashing to me. had you had that title up I would have replied differently too in my first reply.

Yes I know our new projects admin ask you to change the title from the original I promise one but you know the current one is hardly what she had in mind in the candida support forum.

[2big4mysize]

Guys it was me who asked Nurselady to change the title and unfortunately I was the author. Her "I promise" didn't really reflect what the post was about but neither was my suggestion, unfortuately. I just wanted her to say in the thread. I think you guys are being fed a magic bean. So, dont go after nurselady
We need to understand that not everyone believes in yeast and that was why I asked her to change it.

the magic bean is just that for anyone who doesn't have candida not for those that do. there are blood test and stool medical tests that can be run by your doctor to determine if you do indeed have a systemic yeast infection.

As I said above those that blame their failure to work their atkins properly will benefit weight losswise from the return to induction foods without the frankenfoods but they are not going to experience any medical cahnge in their health unless they mistook a food intolerance for candida and they will soon have a reocurance of that intolerence health related problem when they reintroduce that food after they complete the candida cleanse.

There are sites out there that take advantage of folk who do have candida with bogus and even high priced real herbs cures for candida but you can cure candida very simply with the Atkins KISS food program, anti fungal agents cheap ones like garlic or expensive ones like Oil of oregano or oral medications from the doctor, and reintroducing the healthy bacteria back into our guts by either probiotics if you are induction or yogurt or kefir if you are OWL level 2 or higher and not dairy allergic or intolerant( I didn't say lactose intolerant I said dairy intolerant so please don't correct me by saying the bacteria eat up ther lactose so you can have it)

[Chynna]

Like I mentioned before, you can only prove something to a skeptic when they have to experience things for themselves...

I also find your new title out of line. Honestly, I would have just skipped over it because it is plain out bashing. Your original post and title were alot more approachable, but with a title like that, you're only going to attract some negative remarks.

If candida overgrowth isn't a problem, then there would not be medical tests to determine whether one has it or not. Candida is a yeast, which comes from molding. If you have it in your system, you can experience the same effects as those of mold growing within your home. Whether it is on you, in you or around you, it isn't healthy. It can lead to many other medical problems if not treated.

[Chynna]

By the way, anyone who wants to read up on the effects of candida should read the book "The Yeast Connection".

[Heidi3]

Ya know... I might be wrong about the way I approached you on the topic... but I think you're really pushing the envelope with your lovely new title. There are alot nicer ways to express that you don't believe while on a board created to support people who are looking for help.

I was asked by a higher up to change the title because it was misleading she suggested this and I went with it...to be honest it is how I feel!...but I am open to any real evidence!...and the earlier title was a bit misleading heaven forbid anyone open a thread and be exposed to something they found offensive ..at least now they know I am a skeptic!....

[not2late]

And even if this were true, please explain in scientific and medical terms, how, metabolically, yeast overgrowth would cause one to not burn calories.

If I were to guess at this....

A yeast cell can metabolize energy for itself on of two ways:

In the presence of oxygen, it'll break down sugars to carbon dioxide and water.

In the absence of oxygen, it'll break down sugars to carbon dioxide and ethanol.

So it could be that the yeast in your gut is synthesizing enough ethanol (booze) to delay your fat metabolism or at least slow it down.


I'm in the camp of "let's see alittle more studies" on this. Candida has been studied--- candida infections like oral thrush, vaginosis, wound infections etc, but not from a "subclinical" candidal infection perspective.

But I also think if folks who go on these anti-yeast diets find relief of their symptoms with it, it can't be ignored due to lack of multi-center double-blind randomized placebo-controlled clinical studies.

My 2 carbs(net)

[Heidi3]

quote="Chynna"]By the way, anyone who wants to read up on the effects of candida should read the book "The Yeast Connection".[/quote]


I am a skeptic because I have ventured down the road not because I do not understand it!...I spent a lot of time researching the whole idea of candida starting many years ago when it was a trendy catch all for anything wrong with you. I actually thought what the heck maybe? and went to a Naturopath .... after charging me a lot of $$$ diagnosed me as having a yeast issue..(even though all my tests came back negative) ....I embarked on a totally yeast free (impossible as I see it as yeast is everywhere) diet spent a ton more money on the so called probiotics it was strict low carb, nothing fermented ect diet...and I lost weight and made me feel pretty good in the beginning .......it was also too restrictive and hard to live with and after a while my skin was not so great and I started feeling very tired.....this was not yeast die off it was lack of variety and not enough in the way of a nutritional balance .. so I am speaking from my experience as well as from my own studying ....the whole theory has too many holes in it and I am not convinced...but that does not mean I will not listen...

I posted this to stir the waters a little yes!!! When I saw the title of the thread I could not stop myself!!!...Knowledge is power in my mind and I think the conversation is a healthy one!!! Please you guys conversation with people who agree and disagree can be a great earning pool... if it is not fun for you I apologize but this board is a little bland lately and I am not always comfortable around people who agree with me ...where is the learning???...If you believe you have yeast and feel better when you are on a yeast free diet and all those probiotics than you go for it!...far be it for me to tell ANYONE what to believe!!! But as far as this being a remedy based on fact I am not seeing it!!!
I would appreciate if you have evidence based info that proves anything about the whole yeast theory let me know!!!
Right now I am still not convinced ...it just does not make sense to me from my standpoint...and that is not a narrow one!!!
Just do not get angry with me for starting a subject that I feel is a very important one and also feel should be talked about...even if you do not agree with me.....I want to understand!!!....it just ain't happening!!!
I would tell you what I do know about yeast but that would take up more room than we have here!
Trust me I am not speaking from a point of "not knowing what I am talking about" I do!!!..and it is not because of my work or my title..this is me as a person who has has a life long struggle with weight and trying to find a solution as well as being a healthcare professional

[Heidi3]

"But I also think if folks who go on these anti-yeast diets find relief of their symptoms with it, it can't be ignored due to lack of multi-center double-blind randomized placebo-controlled clinical studies."u

Nope do not ignore it ...just do not tell me it is yeast with out proving it...any ristrictive diet can make people feel better especially if the diet was not all that healthy to begin with !!!....if you look at the diet before you might just be surprised if the person is honest what they have consumed prior to starting the yeast free diet!!!....it is more like they are paying closer attention to what they are eating and avoiding things that may not be good for them ...not so much the yeast...sorry....gotta have th double blind random and some physiological testing for that!!!

[Heidi3]

Oh here is a question to those in the "know" ....yeast is very easily killed in an acidic environment..it likes a sweet spot....pH matters to yeast....that is why we get itchy if we sit in a swim suit...yeast thrives in a sweet warm moist environment......if so...how does it make it through your stomach acid into your system?????