Burning Fat or Burning Glycogen

[borntolose]

ensive Interesting Article

Surprisingly, if your aerobic activity is low to moderately intense and of long duration, you will burn more fat than if you had participated in a short burst of high-intensity exercise. In short, a brisk 30-minute walk will burn fat while a 100-yard sprint will burn glycogen.

Strength training or resistance exercises use your existing muscular strength to improve muscle mass and burn fat.

More here: http://health.yahoo.com/health/cente...t_loss/25.html

[ttdriver]

Absolutely true, which is why if you are running, you will burn more fat by SLOWING DOWN and going LONGER ... most novice runners think they should go fast to burn fat, but that's not the case at all. That's why a heart rate monitor is such a worthwhile investment if you are a serious cardiovascular exercise person ... it will keep you honest and give you the assurance that you are burning the most fat for your effort!

Thanks for the info!!

Betty

[snorkelman]

I personally run at a moderate pace for 30 minutes, however, there is a lot of evidence that HIIT works and burns more calories during the cardio routine.

Of course, if you burn out and only do a 10 minute HIIT workout, then yes, you will burn more calories with 30 minutes of moderate paced jogging.

About the gycogen (and i am sure there are some people out there who will claim that on Atkins you ALWAYS burn fat):

However, carbohydrates (glycogen) is the body's main energy source. When this fuel source is in short supply, your body is forced to look to its secondary energy source (body fat). If you do cardio immediately after eating a meal, you'll still burn fat, but you'll burn less of it because you'll be burning off the carbohydrates you ate first. You always burn a combination of fat and carbohydrate for fuel, but depending on when you exercise, you can burn a greater proportion of fat relative to carbohydrates. This is why I suggest doing cardio first thing in the morning before you eat - to maximize the fat you burn.

[ttdriver]

Agree, snorkelman!!!

Betty

[2big4mysize]

Actually all exercise burns glycogen :yikes

Yep the first thing your muscles do is fracture the phosogen energy storage molecules stored in them, those muscles energy storeage units are ATP molecules and glycogen a hydrocarbon chain of 4 6 carbon units with a phosphate bonded. . The next step in the fueling is what we all learned in jr high. We all learned glucosis energy part of the cycle back where the glucose is fractured to a form different molecules of hydrocarbons and energy ATP is created anaerobically to the 3 carbon stage and aerobically from the 2 carbon stage on to CO2 and H2O as the final waste products should everything be perfect for the reaction sequence. But this isn't the only energy cycle in the human body just the only one most folk know about. It is what your body does after that inital seconds of energy production from the phosphate bond breaks and the burning up of those stored glucose molecules that determins if you will be fat burning or sugar burning for the rest of the workout


It is really too bad the scientist who discovered the energy cycle that burned those hydrocarbons named it for a carbohydrate, glycogen, and therefore folk think only carbohydrates can be used in it as the human liver through glucogenises can convert smaller carbohydrates, fats and proteins to that 6 carbon molecule needed for the first step of the cycle too and as the base molecule for storage unit too. that glycogen, the body storage molecule for quick short energy, is actually just a 4 molecule chain of a well known 6 carbon hydrocarbon better known as glucose with a phophate molecule attatched . So in effect you can be burning "fat" even when you are using those glycogen stores in your muscles and the glucose in the blood stream too.

There are physical limits to how much glycogen a muscle can hold and the lack of large storage amounts of glycogen is why milers don't run as fast as sprinters for the whole distance. The stored muscle supply is used up in less then a few min for average exercisers and even sooner for elite athletes (less then 60 sec). it take oxygen to drive the final end stage of the glycogen energy cycle and that is where the fuel system bogs down.

If you are working out at high intensety your body has sent out a call for more fuel and as the blood glucose level drops since those muscles are sucking it up for glucosis energy the chemical needed for releasing the fats from storage is being produced. should you get those fats to the energy creation (ATP) stages before the ATP supply gets too low in your muscles your body will not release the organ glycogen reserves something we all experienced in induction as our bodies didn't have enough fat burning chemicals created to handle the demands we were making at that time. we all bonked in some form when that reserve was used up and we were not able to create enough Atp from the fatty acids to met our demands.

muscles that have been trained on Atkins WOE will adapt and increase the stores of fatty acids, fatty acid carrier molecukles, and even grow more mitochondria for burning those fatty acids better and faster for energy creation too. the fatty acid aerobic end stage 2carbon molecule Acytly Co A can be removed by the creation of ketone molecules from that 2 carbon molecules and byproduct molecules and they can keep the fat molecule breakdown for energy production going in the fatty acid oxidation when the body can't keep up the oxygen demands placed on it too. Pretty cool all the ways Dr Atkins knew our bodies would work eating his plan while we worked out without carb loading.

The HIIT is a very delicate balanceing act. we want to use up the the phosphogens present in the muscles as ATP and glucose, but not get the ATP levles low enough that we call out the organ glycogen reserves. SO we go all out for about 1 min the max amount those molecules can store of energy and then cut back to allow the burn to slightly decrease allowing our Fatty acid oxidation in the cells to resupply the ATP molecules and keep the muscle cells from activated the enzyme that turns on the glucogenesis enzymes when ATP gets low. then we pop the intensity back up to burn off those ATP molecules and cause the body to need more fatty acids for creation of more ATP in those muscle cells. But it is a constant switching back and forth and if you go too long in the high intensity stage you will trigger the results you don't want.

The bottom line is you can do a short high intensity workout about 20 mins and get cals burned for the day, or you can do a longer lower intensity workout and get more cals burned of the kind you want burned for the same amount of toital cals burned. Me I love burning up fat cals cause when i finsih and those ketone levels are high I can get added net cals used up by peeing them out in the toilet. hehe. don't you love losing fat down the potty?

[JordanII]

Hey! To Big No More! (Sorry, sometimes the little devil in me just escapes!)

I am blown away with your very thorough explanation! Obviously you have put in the work to learn about fat and glycogen burning at the molecular level.

I am trying to apply what I just read to my experience today as I ran. Needless to say that after re-reading it several times, I still am not convinced that I understand it as well as I would like to.

I run on the verge (grass/weeds/mud) to preserve my knees and "cross country", i.e. fairly steep hills, some inclines and flat sections.

I try to keep a constant "cruising" pace, i.e., I can sort of "sing" with my MPT player. The "HIIT" parts are when I hit the inclines - I find that my oxygen demand precludes any kind of "singing", and as I do the hills- I am starting to really suck in the air....one might say that I am oxygen starved, but I'm not quite sure this is true since I can maintain my pace, though it is an effort for sure.

In the first 10 minutes of my run I hit the first big hill. Can I assume that whatever glycogen has been stored in my muscles will have been burned by the time I get to the top?

As I continue, my breath is back and I feel a renewed injection of energy - cause very quickly I can once more cruise and sing. What is happening now?

This process is repeated about five times over the course of an hour. By the end of said hour I have run 4.5 miles.

When I first started my leg muscles would grumble when going up the inclines and positively scream bloody murder when going up the hills. Now I don't hear a peep from them at anytime. It is my lungs who have things to say when I hit the top of the hills.

By the time I get home I fell great but am tired. My body knows that it has put in work. An hour later I can resume whatever activity I had planned for the day. Could I go out and do the run again….I don’t think so.

Can you tell me what is happening vis a vis fat burning over the course of these "cycles"?

Thanks.

[2big4mysize]

good for you
HIIT is about working out at maximum oxygen level called VO max but we don't have those machines like you saw all those famous pro athletes treadmilling hooked up to with the nose and mouth tubes collecting all the air in the GAterade comercials last yr.

since you are short of breath and you are Atkins eating I am assuming the lack of burning in your legs says you are not getting lactic acid build up which is good as that is the carb burning end stage when you are lacking oxygen, rememeber the fats can wisk their stuf away as ketones.


Oh and if you can sing with the player you are not going fast enough to qualify for an aeobic workout so you should be in your fat burning range but you might want to check your pulse while you are running a few times to see where it is. As you do your same exercise your heart gets a training effect and will beat slower doing the same course in the same time. I discovered that little item when I had the trainer on the tradmill next to me point out I wasn't getting any HIIIT benefit out of my workout since I was nose breathing the whole hour back in the fall of 2003. That was a wake up call for me and I started checking my pulse after that regularly and when I notice a training efect kicking in I up the incline and the speed a bit.

Happy low carbing

[JordanII]

Hey!

Oh and if you can sing with the player you are not going fast enough to qualify for an aeobic workout so you should be in your fat burning range but you might want to check your pulse while you are running a few times to see where it is.

Caramba! I knew I was enjoying this far too much!!!!!!

Does this mean that I am going to have to work harder :yikes And here I was cruising on my laurels thinking I got this puppy whipped into shape! :anger

All of the above aside, I am going to have to get a heart monitor, something akin to what ttdriver has mentioned, so that I can keep an eye on what is happening.

Thanks! I'm glad that I asked the question. If I am going to be out there anyway, might as well get the pay off.

[2big4mysize]

you can just check it yourself while on your run I'd do it before I started before the hills at the top opf the hills and then after my hill recovery and see where you are when you get home you can record them and then plot your run vs your tatget rates and see where you need to be going faster if you do.

the easiest place while running whoulf be your cartoid artery in your neck and just do a 10 sec count then when you get in you can multiply it by 6 to see the real rate.

[snorkelman]

[quote="JordanII"]Hey!

Oh and if you can sing with the player you are not going fast enough to qualify for an aeobic workout so you should be in your fat burning range but you might want to check your pulse while you are running a few times to see where it is.

Caramba! I knew I was enjoying this far too much!!!!!!

Actually i think you may be misinterpreting the advice. Also I believe that the author of the advice meant that you would not be going fast enough to qualify as an "anerobic" workout.

Basically, you WANT to be able to talk or sing. The only exception is if you are doing HIIT.

Again, the heart rate monitor is the best way to see if you are in your target zone.

[borntolose]

:yes My instructor in college called it Fartlek-Interval training. http://www.stumptuous.com/fartlek.html

Hey, what's so funny about the word "fartlek"? You kids just quit laughing. I said quit it!! Stop laughing right now or I'll turn this car right around then you'll all be sorry!!!

Seriously (quit snickering, you in the back, or else), fartlek training is Swedish for "speed play" ("fart" = speed; "lek" = play, which makes one wonder... do Swedish cops give tickets for farting?). It was originally developed by and for runners, as a looser alternative to their highly structured timed interval training. I use it here more broadly to refer to any combination of high and low intensity work. I also use "interval training" as a synonym for fartlek, although the two are not precisely the same. But I fartlek in the general direction of anyone who complains about my inaccurate terminology, ha ha.

BJ

[2big4mysize]

[quote="snorkelman"]

Hey!

Oh and if you can sing with the player you are not going fast enough to qualify for an aeobic workout so you should be in your fat burning range but you might want to check your pulse while you are running a few times to see where it is.

Caramba! I knew I was enjoying this far too much!!!!!!

Actually i think you may be misinterpreting the advice. Also I believe that the author of the advice meant that you would not be going fast enough to qualify as an "anerobic" workout.

No the author wrote the word AEROBIC several times in her article and stress low intensity aerobic workout. She did not say instead of anerobic exercise You can do a higher instensity aerobic workout going at a faster speed and trigger the organ glyocgen stores to be released.
Basically, you WANT to be able to talk or sing. The only exception is if you are doing HIIT.

Check it again JordanII said she can sing along with the tape. for an aerobic workout you should be going fast enough yes that you can talk but not slow enough to carry on a conversation which is what singing a long with a tape is.
Again, the heart rate monitor is the best way to see if you are in your target zone.

BJ glad you posted that

My instructor in college called it Fartlek-Interval training.

and not me cause the spelling police would be after me hehehehe.

[JordanII]

Thanks everybody.

I will check my pulse at the various points in my "cycles" and see what is happening. :nod

Again, thank you.

[ttdriver]

I can't recommend a Heart Rate Monitor strongly enough ... there is simply no better way to measure your exertion. Even a strong wind will cause your exertion levels to rise and a good HRM will measure that.

I wouldn't trade mine for anything, although at the time I bought it, I thought .. HOLY COW, WHAT HAVE I DONE??

A year later and it told me today I've burned over 73,000 calories running ... now *that's* motivating!! 21 pounds gone forever!

Betty

[JordanII]

WoW!

I did not know that it also tally's your caloric exertion.

Maybe just for that reason I should get one. I log my exercise on Fit Day but must admit that I cannot get an accurate count because of the hills . Re: stiff winds, since I am usually running into them going and then they are at my back coming, I thought they just cancel each other out.

I will be going to the mall some time this week. They have a huge sports store and I will check into what they have in monitors.

TKS