A kinda odd veggie question...

[blwoods]

In the book, it states to eat 2 cups of salad veggies/ 1 cup of the other category... or 3 cups of salad veggies.

If by the numbers, my carbs are NOWHERE near my 20g, can I have more veggies or just be happy with the extremely low carbs? I don't want to botch up what has, so far, been an extremely clean induction.

[atkinsgal08]

Re: A kinda odd veggie question...

Well ... Rule # 3 says, "Eat no more than 20 [net] grams of carbohydrates, most of which must come in the form of salad greens and other vegetables."

[blwoods]

Re: A kinda odd veggie question...

Yeah... but thats what rings odd to me. If you follow the induction diet to the T... depending on what veggies you eat you could be getting far less than 20g a day, especially if you are following the rule about where your carbs come from... ya know. Bleh.. I'm just not going to worry about it and stay under my 20.

[atkinsgal08]

Re: A kinda odd veggie question...

You should be closer to being AT 20 net rather than being "under".

[blwoods]

Re: A kinda odd veggie question...

Well, after inputting my menu for the day on fitday for today... my carbs BEFORE the fiber removal is only 14.1... but my percentages are 69/28/4. Ironically, I am probably consuming far fewer calories now than I ever did in the past... and I am NOT trying to. I just eat until I am full.

[liv]

Re: A kinda odd veggie question...

I usually eat the three cups and that is about it. Although actually having more probably would leave you just fine, learning from the start to limit carbs and get used to eyeballing food sizes (like how much is a good cup) is a good practice.
Also if your total carbs do not reach 20 that is fine. Just make sure most of your carbs are veggie carbs (that is going to be how you eat for probably months from now on - most of your carbs will be veggie carbs)

Also you can get in more carbs with cups if you choose the denser veggies. Variety is good.

And as luck will have it we are about to have a veggie challenge, Here is the info:

C'MON OVER AND JOIN Mitzi's VEGGIE CHALLENGE!

[atkinsgal08]

Re: A kinda odd veggie question...

>>my carbs BEFORE the fiber removal is only 14.1..>>

How much fiber did you have?

Eating too few carbs can be counter-productive. You want to make sure you're getting enough nutrition, and many find that being closer to 20 net is better for that.

Atkins is "controlled" carb ... going too low can cause problems. Dr. Atkins chose 20 for a reason.

[chinadoll]

Re: A kinda odd veggie question...

Georgiana actually spoke to Atkins organization about this. The three cup rule was meant to simplify things and make it easy for folks to do Induction. If you are eating veggies that are very low in carbs you may have more than 3 cups as long as your daily net total does not exceed the 20 grams. However you should strive for a variety of veggies because a variety will provide better nutrition. And that means things other than just lettuce. Hope this answers your question.

[Georgiana]

Re: A kinda odd veggie question...

Georgiana actually spoke to Atkins organization about this.

I should clarify this, since some people might think I spoke to the guys from ANI... and that will get me lots of rotten tomatoes... and we all know tomatoes are quite carby.

The person I spoke to about the issue of cups is Jackie Eberstein. For those of you who don't know who Jackie Eberstein is, she has a short CV here: Controlled Carbohydrate Nutritio

If you read DANDR, 3 cups are indeed mentioned there. So if you are following the book word by word... well... then eat 3 cups.

Below is my opinion on veggies. However, please keep in mind that at ADBB people are going by 3 cups. Of course, no one is going to come down to your place to check how you fit the veggies in a cup, what veggies you eat, or whether you choose to weigh them or measure them by cup... so interpret the book as you wish and as it makes sense to you.

Okay...

For someone who eats only romaine lettuce, eating 12 net carbs of vegetables sucks. That's about 22 cups of romaine. A lot of lettuce! Other than the fact that I seriously doubt anyone would eat a mountain of lettuce, it should be clear to everyone that eating only lettuce does not supply your body with proper nutrition. I won't go as far as to say that lettuce is only "crispy water"... I believe it has its place in one's diet... but all vegetables are rich in certain nutrients and poor in others. So if you do not consume a variety of vegetables, you will be getting too much of some nutrients and too little of others, making your diet unbalanced and not as healthy as it could be. Certain nutrient deficiencies are not only bad for your overall health, but also bad for your metabolism (hence, weight loss), because the metabolism needs them to run efficiently.

To give your body proper nutrition, it is important to choose a variety of vegetables from both lists. Don't eat only tomatoes... only pumpkin... only radishes... or only lettuce. By choosing vegetables from both lists, instead of only vegetables from the "Other Vegetables" list, you will be able to eat a larger variety of them (since the ones on the "Salad Vegetables" list are typically lower in carbs), which in the end is better for your health.

Also... as you read in your copy of DANDR, you should spread your veggies throughout the day, to avoid blood sugar spikes. For example, having no veggies for breakfast, a 2-cup lettuce-only salad for lunch and then "loading" on 15 net carbs of pumpkin lasagna for dinner is a bad idea.

As for 3 cups... If you choose to eat more than 3 cups, you must measure your veggies properly, not eyeball a cup or 100 g. If you choose lower carb veggies, then eating more than 3 cups is fine (again, keep in mind that this is only my opinion... from reading DANDR and from talking to people who worked with Dr. Atkins). If you choose higher carb veggies, like jicama, red peppers, onion, etc., then your net carbs for the day (not only from vegetables alone) can get close to 20 by eating 3 cups. Otherwise, in my opinion, you are only cheating yourself of nutrition.

Working in cups... If one eats a cup of red peppers for breakfast, a cup of asparagus and 1/2 cup of sauteed mushrooms for lunch, I seriously doubt eating a salad made with 2 cups of arugula and some cherry tomatoes for dinner will do any harm (of course, all these veggies should be eaten with some protein and fat). After all, there are several ways to eat, let's say, 18 net carbs in one day. Below are two examples.

-----------------------------------------
Menu #1
1 cup pumpkin [6.94 net carbs]
1 cup jicama [5.07 net carbs]
1 cup cucumbers [3.18 net carbs]
1 oz cream cheese [1.15 net carbs]
2 medium eggs [0.68 net carbs]
8 oz decaf coffee with 1 tbsp heavy cream [1.22 net carbs ---> 0.8 net carbs from coffee and 0.42 from cream]

Total: 18.24 net carbs wit 15.19 net carbs from vegetables
-----------------------------------------
Menu #2
1 cup kale [5.41 net carbs]
1-1/2 cup broccoli [3.64 net carbs]
1 cup mushrooms [1.58 net carbs]
2 cups arugula [0.86 net carbs]
5 cherry tomatoes [2.33 net carbs]
1 tbsp lemon juice [1.22 net carbs]
1 oz cream cheese [1.15 net carbs]
2 medium eggs [0.68 net carbs]
8 oz decaf coffee with 1 tbsp heavy cream [1.22 net carbs]

Total: 18.09 net carbs with 13.82 net carb from vegetables
-----------------------------------------

As you can see, both menus have about the same number of net carbs. However, Menu #1 has 3 cups of vegetables, while Menu #2 has a bit over 6 cups. Personally, I will not tell anyone eating Menu #2 that they are not following Induction properly just because their veggies happened not to fit in 3 cups. I used to tell members this... but people learn... or change their mind... however you want to see it.

Personal opinion over.

[RosieC]

Re: A kinda odd veggie question...

Useful menus, thanks Georgiana! Of course a person would add plenty of meat and fish to those lists, they are extremely low calorie as they are and that is not the idea at all. When you say that the veggies should be eaten with protein and fat, you don't just mean the eggs and cream cheese in those menus, of course. I think this might need spelling out for newbies

[Georgiana]

Re: A kinda odd veggie question...

Definitely, Rosie. Thanks for clarifying that!

I only included in those menus the foods that would contribute with carbs... and I did not include carbs coming from spices, for example.

[Valinerya]

Re: A kinda odd veggie question...

This is perfect! I was very sad being limited to only 3 cups of salad greens, because I love big salads with tuna, or egg, and I was feeling deprived. My veggie carbs were always well below 20 grams, and it's good to know that as long as I get most of my carbs from veggies, I can have more than 3 cups of salad!

Clinging to that 20 gram limit though, can't go over that, even if it is all veggies.

[atkinsgal08]

Re: A kinda odd veggie question...

Don't forget that spices do have carbs.

http://www.atkinsdietbulletinboard.com/forums/main-atkins-diet-forum/81795-carb-counts-spices.html

[chinadoll]

Re: A kinda odd veggie question...

Sorry Georgiana, I was trying to keep it brief. Glad you clarified it. I will copy the whole post in case I reference it again.

[Georgiana]

Re: A kinda odd veggie question...

Sorry Georgiana, I was trying to keep it brief. Glad you clarified it. I will copy the whole post in case I reference it again.

No worries, Jill. It's just that there has been so much discussion lately about cups vs. carbs...... Sigh.