Can I up carbs?

[BreakfastSurreal]

MY REASONS/EXCUSES for not starting OWL:
* i don't want to move onto OWL yet is because I am not super organized
* this summer I am going out of town and stuff and it just seems like induction will be a lot easier for me to keep up while I'm away...I'm not going to have fitday while I'm on vacation, and honestly I don't really want to have to fool with finding my CCLL yet.
* I kind of want to milk induction for all it's worth and get the most out of it
* I have started cooking lately, and a lot of these low carb recipes are SO good...but have say 5g per serving or so...a serving being a 1.5 x 2 in slice of casserole..sorry but that is just not enough casserole for me! Maybe I should go back to my blah dishes..

[not2late]

MY REASONS/EXCUSES for not starting OWL:
* i don't want to move onto OWL yet is because I am not super organized
* this summer I am going out of town and stuff and it just seems like induction will be a lot easier for me to keep up while I'm away...I'm not going to have fitday while I'm on vacation, and honestly I don't really want to have to fool with finding my CCLL yet.
* I kind of want to milk induction for all it's worth and get the most out of it
* I have started cooking lately, and a lot of these low carb recipes are SO good...but have say 5g per serving or so...a serving being a 1.5 x 2 in slice of casserole..sorry but that is just not enough casserole for me! Maybe I should go back to my blah dishes..

You might want to read through the OWL chapters in the book and the OWL stickies in the OWL forum.

You can easily move up the OWL Ladder by adding an additional 5 net carbs of the Induction veggies---that's the first OWL rung. Also, you can stay on a particular rung for as long or as little as you want.

As for just eating 5 net carbs more of a casserole...Here's the problems with that. If the casserole contains an Induction "limited" food, such as cream, cheese, or veggies, you'll still have to count that additional serving as part of those food allowances. The other thing is portion control. Portion control is a big part of this WOE. Dr. Atkins depended on us to self-regulate our portions through the appetite suppression of ketosis. If you continue eating multiple servings of foods, you will be eating more calories. While the metabolic advantage of Atkins can compensate for "extra" calories, there comes a point when it can't compensate and the result will either be no weight loss or weight gain.

The other thing that concerns me is what you are describing as a portion size for your low carb food. A 1.5 by 2 inch rectangle is rather small, considering that 3 ounces of meat is typically the size of a standard deck of playing cards. You might want to look for low carb recipes that have a slightly larger portion size, with the same amount of carbs. Try looking through the recipe section of this board because there are a number of good Induction casseroles/skillet meals with slightly larger portions/per carbs. Something tells me the casseroles you are currently eating either contain rather large amounts of cheese or cream or a combination of both. If that's the case, you might want to double the protein in the casserole to help spread the total carbs out and give you slightly larger portions.

[BreakfastSurreal]

MY REASONS/EXCUSES for not starting OWL:
* i don't want to move onto OWL yet is because I am not super organized
* this summer I am going out of town and stuff and it just seems like induction will be a lot easier for me to keep up while I'm away...I'm not going to have fitday while I'm on vacation, and honestly I don't really want to have to fool with finding my CCLL yet.
* I kind of want to milk induction for all it's worth and get the most out of it
* I have started cooking lately, and a lot of these low carb recipes are SO good...but have say 5g per serving or so...a serving being a 1.5 x 2 in slice of casserole..sorry but that is just not enough casserole for me! Maybe I should go back to my blah dishes..

You might want to read through the OWL chapters in the book and the OWL stickies in the OWL forum.

You can easily move up the OWL Ladder by adding an additional 5 net carbs of the Induction veggies---that's the first OWL rung. Also, you can stay on a particular rung for as long or as little as you want.

As for just eating 5 net carbs more of a casserole...Here's the problems with that. If the casserole contains an Induction "limited" food, such as cream, cheese, or veggies, you'll still have to count that additional serving as part of those food allowances. The other thing is portion control. Portion control is a big part of this WOE. Dr. Atkins depended on us to self-regulate our portions through the appetite suppression of ketosis. If you continue eating multiple servings of foods, you will be eating more calories. While the metabolic advantage of Atkins can compensate for "extra" calories, there comes a point when it can't compensate and the result will either be no weight loss or weight gain.

The other thing that concerns me is what you are describing as a portion size for your low carb food. A 1.5 by 2 inch rectangle is rather small, considering that 3 ounces of meat is typically the size of a standard deck of playing cards. You might want to look for low carb recipes that have a slightly larger portion size, with the same amount of carbs. Try looking through the recipe section of this board because there are a number of good Induction casseroles/skillet meals with slightly larger portions/per carbs. Something tells me the casseroles you are currently eating either contain rather large amounts of cheese or cream or a combination of both. If that's the case, you might want to double the protein in the casserole to help spread the total carbs out and give you slightly larger portions.

that is where i got my recipes from...1 serving of a casserole from any of those recipes is not enough to make someone full...maybe i should just not cook any of them again until my carbs are higher...i was quite excited I found something that tasted really good...but...oh well. doubling the meat is a good idea though...I have made bacon cheeseburger quiche, italian casserole, and the low carb pizza so far...all very yummy...I just don't want to go back to tuna and eggs lol

[not2late]

For the casseroles, double the amount of meat. That will double the amount of the total recipe, keeping the carb count for the whole dish the same, but decreasing the carb count per serving.

For the pizza, if it's the pizza that uses parmesan cheese, cream cheese and shredded cheese mixed in eggs for the crust. That recipe doesn't need cream cheese and you can use half of the shredded cheese for the crust. That will save unnecessary crust carbs on that recipe.

[2big4mysize]

since you don't want to mess with the rungs but want to up your carbs 5 net why don't you do a modified OWL adding 5 more net carbs of rung one which is the induction acceptable veggies both the 2-3 cuppers and the one cuppers and hold your carbs at 25 with no change to find the CCLL for now? that would give you the carbs you want the extra food you think you need and the low carb healthy Low GI foods. the best of both extended induction and the OWL rung 1 more foods.

irishIrish had the perfect solution for that pizza she made it into crust for 3 pizzas and had the great crust and the lower carbs too.

Happy low carbing

[lee1112]

I think after reading this thread that I may just try moving on to OWL. I, too, feel a little scared. Moving away from what feels "safe".

I am just ending my 7th wk and feel like I have slowed to a crawl. Lost 1 pound this week. I must admit that I do want variety.

I must tell you though that I have a friend who lost 80 lbs doing Atkins and she maintains that the ENTIRE time she had 1 cheat day a week. She still does. And...she lost all that weight. She told me that you have to keep your body "screwed" up. She says that eating more food actually increased her metabolism and this helped her.

Comments?

[not2late]

I think after reading this thread that I may just try moving on to OWL. I, too, feel a little scared. Moving away from what feels "safe".

I am just ending my 7th wk and feel like I have slowed to a crawl. Lost 1 pound this week. I must admit that I do want variety.

I must tell you though that I have a friend who lost 80 lbs doing Atkins and she maintains that the ENTIRE time she had 1 cheat day a week. She still does. And...she lost all that weight. She told me that you have to keep your body "screwed" up. She says that eating more food actually increased her metabolism and this helped her.

Comments?

It might "work" for her because she wasn't really "cheating" in terms of carbs. Everyone has their own level of carb tolerance----their CCLL (Critical Carbohydrate Losing Level). Mine is 40 net carbs. IF I go over 40 net carbs, I stop losing pounds and inches. When 2big was losing weight, her CCLL was over 100 net carbs daily. What does that mean? It means that I can "cheat" once a week eating a slice of thin crust pizza, plus my Atkins foods and technically lose weight. It also means that 2Big could have "cheated" eating a Big Mac (44 net carbs) and a small fries (27 net carbs) once a week and still lose weight.

This is one of the reasons why you don't read posts about "cheating and still losing weight" or "carbing up and losing weight" in the OWL forum: we either know how many carbs our bodies can have and still lose weight or we are in the process of finding it out.

[BreakfastSurreal]

I too had a friend that did atkins...his nutritionalist advised him to have a cheat day every 2 weeks...I believe he lost 45lbs in 7 months...but personally I think he could have lost a lot faster without the cheat days...instead of having a slice of pizza, or a plate of spaghetti, he would smoke lots of pot and just PIG OUT for a day...the one day I did that (minus the pot), it took me a WEEK to relose the pounds I put on...I don't want to be playing catch up all the time...
I know this sounds like another excuse, but $ is really tight right now, and I don't really have the cash to be "experimenting" with new veggies...I already have 4 new ones that I like now, and that's just about as far as I can go with veggies right now...I could eat MORE of them each day, but buying weird things I have never heard of most likely means that they will end up in the trash after I try them...shopping on a budget is extremely difficult on Atkins, I don't care what anyone here says about how it's cheaper, because while SOME things might be cheaper, I find myself having to STOCK up on stuff so I don't run out...and sometimes I do anyways and end up having spinach and fish only left for the last few days before the next paycheck....and please don't anyone preach to me about how I need to save my money, it's not my money and Id on't exactly control where it goes...what I get for groceries is what I get.

[Elizellen]

I know this sounds like another excuse, but $ is really tight right now, and I don't really have the cash to be "experimenting" with new veggies...I already have 4 new ones that I like now, and that's just about as far as I can go with veggies right now...I could eat MORE of them each day, but buying weird things I have never heard of most likely means that they will end up in the trash after I try them....

No problems here then - the veggies rung can be adding 5 extra net carbs of veggies you already eat in induction.
So just have an extra portion of spinach or one of your other veggies :hug No need to buy different ones.

[BreakfastSurreal]

I know this sounds like another excuse, but $ is really tight right now, and I don't really have the cash to be "experimenting" with new veggies...I already have 4 new ones that I like now, and that's just about as far as I can go with veggies right now...I could eat MORE of them each day, but buying weird things I have never heard of most likely means that they will end up in the trash after I try them....

No problems here then - the veggies rung can be adding 5 extra net carbs of veggies you already eat in induction.
So just have an extra portion of spinach or one of your other veggies :hug No need to buy different ones.

ok...i guess i can start owl, but i suspect ill be on veggies for a long time.

[Iapetus999]

There seems to be a lot of movement on this board for supporting "extended induction" like you're supposed to do it.
It's really an "optional" part of the program.
OK honestly I did Induction for 4 weeks instead of 2 BUT then I moved on to OWL and my weight loss continued even as I moved up the rungs.

The way to acheive long-term weight loss is to move thru OWL and figure out what you can/can't eat...for the rest of your life.

I think sometimes people drop off the plan because they think Induction foods are all there is...if I had to eat that way nowadays I think I'd go nuts.
On the other hand once you raise your carb limit you lose ketosis and all the hunger-suppressing effects...so keeping your food intake under control is harder. But working out can counter those effects. :nod

Anyways I think people should move on to OWL and when they do they should congratulate themselves for completeing a successful Induction. :joy

[2big4mysize]

okay 2 issues going on here. First There is a full chapter in DANDR 2002 about when you should move to OWL. For me i wanted foods not allowed in induction so I moved. Many folk don't and then end up cheating and struggling to stick with their extended induction levels Atkins. Others love the induction foods and have to be tough loved out when they get close to goal. It is your choice and should be based on your answers to those questions. Dr Atkins says IF YOU HAVE A LOT TO LOSE ... stay on induction. he never intended for flyweights to do extended induction all the way to goal weight. Yes they will lose less pounds on OWL then on induction but for lightweights and flyweights each individual pound represents a greater change in their total body weight then it does for a super heavyweight so it may seem like it isn't working when they are not losing pounds every week and others are but 1 pound to somebody needing to lose 10 pounds is the same as 10 pounds for somebody needing to lose 100 pounds so that 1-2 pounds the heavy weight super heavyweight is losing would be the same proportion of lose as .1 to .2 pounds which isn't going to even show up on your scales if you are a lightweight or flyweight.


eating stimulates your metabolism so when you eat you will increase your metabolic rate both before you eat and afterwards. Your body will adjust to less total food not just carbs but total foods. You can keep that from happening by not being afraid on your Atkins to eat when you feel hungry and even if today you need 3000 cals to satisfy your hunger and you have been eating only 1500 for weeks you will lose weight. The folks that need those shake up their systems "cheats" are folk who regiment their eating and don't feed their hunger just their cals and or carbs numbers.

I did extended induction for 6.5 months and lost over 100 pounds. I fed my hunger and some days had over 3000 cals and some days had less then 1000. If you are doing your exercise and listening to your body it will tell you it needs more food some days.
Some folk say they have the munchies when that happens and are afraid to eat more. But if it is true hunger, not thirst mistook for hunger or emotional I wants then you should allow yourself to have more of your allowed for your phase foods just don't exceed your carb limits. The higher cals not carbs today will make your metabolism alter itself a bit the next day.

So listen to your body and it will help you lose the fat.

[not2late]

There seems to be a lot of movement on this board for supporting "extended induction" like you're supposed to do it.
It's really an "optional" part of the program.
OK honestly I did Induction for 4 weeks instead of 2 BUT then I moved on to OWL and my weight loss continued even as I moved up the rungs.

The Induction forum was split, because when it was one big forum, the Extended Inductioners used to confuse the Newbie Inductioners with various questions and dilemnas. Also since the forums have split, it seems like more Newbies aren't afraid to move onto OWL---maybe because they aren't under the "if I move to OWL, I'll stop losing weight" psychosis. Also since the split, the notion that Induction is the only weight loss phase of Atkins has more or less disappeared from ADBB.

The way to acheive long-term weight loss is to move thru OWL and figure out what you can/can't eat...for the rest of your life.

:nod OWL and Pre-Maintenance are the phases where you really learn how to eat in the real world. Induction isn't.

Many folk don't and then end up cheating and struggling to stick with their extended induction levels Atkins.

In my time here on ADBB, this is the most common reason I've seen for people falling off the wagon---food boredom. Lots of people fall off because they can't have a certain food group, like fruit, and either overeat or overeat "bad" things (like cake, cookies, bread, etc.) in order to compensate for their fruit craving. It's a really sad situation because fruit is "legal" in OWL.

As IAP and 2Big have written, staying on Induction isn't mandatory nor is it necessary for folks with not "much" weight to lose. ("Much" weight is really relative, because we have folks here with 100 or 200 pound weight loss goals---I would consider those goals to be "alot" of weight in comparison to folks with 50 pounds or 10 pounds goals.) Dr. Atkins did write that people who have a higher degree of metabolic resistance to weight loss can benefit by staying on Induction longer because it will correct these metabolic problems. Which is why I make a big deal in the 14 Day forum, to do that "clean" Induction and figure out your degree of metabolic resistance on Day 15.

If you like the Induction foods, stick around eating the Induction foods, but I would suggest finding your CCLL, in the mean time.

So listen to your body and it will help you lose the fat.

Exactly. Again, my CCLL is 40. Some days I eat 40 net carbs, some days I eat 20. It really depends on how I feel. This past week, it seemed like I couldn't stop eating. Today, I'm not hungry at all. By learning to listen to my body, I don't stress out over portion sizes or calories.

[BreakfastSurreal]

On the other hand once you raise your carb limit you lose ketosis and all the hunger-suppressing effects...so keeping your food intake under control is harder. But working out can counter those effects. :nod

Is this correct? I was under the impression that you stay in ketosis during OWL...the only reason you would go out is if you are experimenting to find your CCLL and go too high one week for some reason...or am i wrong here?

[not2late]

On the other hand once you raise your carb limit you lose ketosis and all the hunger-suppressing effects...so keeping your food intake under control is harder. But working out can counter those effects. :nod

Is this correct? I was under the impression that you stay in ketosis during OWL...the only reason you would go out is if you are experimenting to find your CCLL and go too high one week for some reason...or am i wrong here?

You stay in ketosis during OWL, so the appetite suppression should still work for you.

Cravings and other signs of blood sugar instability are usually do to a reaction to a particular food. For example, I cannot eat cantaloupe because it causes me cravings/hunger pains (even if I eat it with fat or have it with a meal containing fat). I also have a similar problem whenever I eat a combo of eggplant and tomatoes---my appetite returns and I'm tempted to eat everything in sight. These as signs of blood sugar instability (see Chapter 12 for the Blood Sugar Instability Test). And if any food cause these, you are to drop the food from your diet.