question about weight lifting on induction and atkins in general

**Isabeau** · October 18, 2005, 06:39 AM

Re: question about weight lifting on induction and atkins in general

Honestly, I'm not sure. I started lifting while I was still in induction and continued to progress. Mind you, it was new for me. I would just keep at it and see.

**BodyRebuilder** · October 18, 2005, 07:39 AM

Re: question about weight lifting on induction and atkins in general

Hi AZN,

Some thoughts:

1. First make sure your calorie intake isn't too low. If you severely restrict calories eventually your body will eat your muscles.

2. Make sure you eat some good protein first thing in the morning. After sleeping all that time your body is looking for energy make sure you feed it something.

3. Try to eat after your workout so your body has some building blocks to repair the tissues.

4. Break your daily diet down into smaller more frequent meals.

5. I am not sure how you you break your workouts down - I see you lift heavy 5 days a week. If possible structure your workouts so you only work each muscle once a week. This will give maximum recovery time and help prevent strength loss. (I have a sample in my journal - link in my sig).

6. Cardio. I see your doing cardio every night. If you want to maximize weight loss this is great - but you may be overtaxing your body and giving up strength. Maybe considering doing the cardio every other day. On Atkins I find I stall strength wise with cardio added in the mix.

7. I am not sure if you are taking any supplements, but there are three basic ones that will give you a good boost. Glutamine, Creatine, and a good multi. Creatine and glutamine will help your muscles "last" longer when lifting and also help them to repair afterward. (Some stuff in journal on this too).

Cyclic Ketogenic Diet - I have tried this before and it works well. However it is like having the induction flu weekly and cravings are out of hand because of the weekly carb-up.

AJ

**not2late** · October 18, 2005, 08:13 AM

Re: question about weight lifting on induction and atkins in general

I don't do weight-lifting (like Olympic event type lifting). But here's my experience with low carb and exercise.

When I moved to OWL, I found my CCLL to be about 35 net carbs daily. I kept my carbs between 20-30. I also walked 4-5 miles a day (10-12 minute miles), did yoga daily and did weight training every other day. As I lost fat and lost muscle, I noticed I began to tired more easily, began to be be hungry all the time and stopped losing pounds and inches. I did the natural thing and panicked, thinking it was something I added to my diet. So I reviewed my diet and went through a period of eliminating certain foods, decreasing my carb level, increasing/decreasing my calories. Finally, I found that if I cut back on my exercise, I didn't feel as tired and hungry and I started to lose weight again.

Then I re-read DANDR 2002: the part where Dr. Atkins says if you exercise, your carb tolerance level might increase. Moreover, I read 2Big's account that when she was exercising her CCLL was 100 net carbs daily, but when she couldn't exercise due to an injury, her CCLL was in the 40s. With all the exercise I had been doing and with all the fat I had been losing, my body changed in its requirements. So I tested myself to see if my CCLL was still 35. It wasn't. My new CCLL was 45. As soon as I began eating closer to my "new" CCLL, I could still do those 4-5 miles, yoga, and weight training WITHOUT feeling tired, hungry and having no weight or inches lost. Right now, I'm hitting the point again, where my "regular" exercise routine is making me tired. I've ruled out any new foods I've added, so it looks like I'll be seeing if my CCLL has increased again.

So my advice to you is move into OWL, find your CCLL and see if your symptoms are relieved.

**2big4mysize** · October 18, 2005, 04:59 PM

Re: question about weight lifting on induction and atkins in general

Comparing what you lifted 2 yrs ago to your current lifting is unfair too now if the day you started Atkins you could lift 160 then you have a problem. work hard in the gym and regrow you muscles with the higher then USDA protein amounts on Atkins and lose your unwanted body fat too.

the human body doesn't keep what it doesn't need unfortunaltey so you are going to have to build more of the fat burning enzyme carriers transporters, helpers and power plants known as mitochondria in your cells to produce more of the bodies energy unit ATP.
you could be deficientin your needed minerals and supplements to build those things too as induction is prety limited in stuff you can get it from.

Ha[[y low carbing

**aznsuperstar** · October 18, 2005, 07:18 PM

Re: question about weight lifting on induction and atkins in general

thanks for the replies guys.

Bodyrebuilder: I think i get a decent amount of protein in...2 eggs in the morning with some turkey and cheese. Tuna in the afternoon, some more meats/salads before the workout and chicken/veggies for dinner.
I am very glad you brought up creatine. I was considering buying creastack (mix of creatine and glutamine) with no added sugars. It is supposed to be good stuff from what i have read. I have 2 issues though. I hear it only works with sugar since sugar spikes insulin levels. Since were on atkins what should i take it with instead? I was thinking protein powder or flaxseed oil...idk what can spike insulin levels like sugar. Also, whats you view on muscle loss after taking creatine. And how about the weight gains on creatin, is there any way to minimize that...(besides drinking a gallon of water a day, which i already do)

not2late: are you telling me that if i excercise too much with too little carbs i actually wont lose weight? I would think it will just use more fat for energy...
and if i up my carbs a bit, which area would be best? veggies etc?
or should i start eating fruits for energy?
BTW, I am currently floowing induction rules so i dont know if i can skip all of those rungs

2big4mysize: first off congrats on losing 146 lbs!!! good job!!!
I try to take a centrum every night before i sleep to get me the vitamins/minerals i need...

Thanks again for the replies guys...I am so tired & sore from my workout today...i dont think i will be getting up any time soon.

**aznsuperstar** · October 18, 2005, 08:56 PM

Re: question about weight lifting on induction and atkins in general

bodybuilder: i just read up on creatine ethly ester after seeing it on your journal. I did a few hours research on it and it sounds really good to me. All the effects of monhydrate without the bloating and necessity for sugar. One question though...

with monhydrate, users generally lose alot of muscle after they stop using it. Is that the case with ethyl ester creatine as well?

**BodyRebuilder** · October 19, 2005, 05:43 AM

Re: question about weight lifting on induction and atkins in general

Originally posted by aznsuperstar

bodybuilder: i just read up on creatine ethly ester after seeing it on your journal. I did a few hours research on it and it sounds really good to me. All the effects of monhydrate without the bloating and necessity for sugar. One question though...

with monhydrate, users generally lose alot of muscle after they stop using it. Is that the case with ethyl ester creatine as well?

I have used Creatine Monohydrate twice before for extended periods of time and did not lose muscle when I stopped. Creatine does help bring water/ATP into the muscles and most of the wieght lost after is water. As the CEE basically does the same thing, but with less bloating, I would suspect less of this loss. The nice thing aboutine creatine is the muscle you build is easily kept because all the creatine is doing is fueling the workouts (as compared to people who use steroids - where the muscle is often lost because their bodies T levels plummet after a cycle).

I have tried two CEE products. Muscletech's CEE worked well but is overpriced. Right now I am trying Controlled labs Green Bulge which has been getting good reviews from the bodybuilding community - I should be able to tell in a few more days.

If you can do the glutamine in addition to the creatine that is a great combo. As far as taking the Creatine with carbs - it may be optimal, but I have been on a ketogenic diet every time I used it and have always seen great results. I have heard of people that it is does not benefit at all (non-responders), but there really isn't anyway to tell until you try it.

AJ

**not2late** · October 19, 2005, 06:53 AM

Re: question about weight lifting on induction and atkins in general

Originally posted by aznsuperstar

not2late: are you telling me that if i excercise too much with too little carbs i actually wont lose weight? I would think it will just use more fat for energy...
and if i up my carbs a bit, which area would be best? veggies etc?
or should i start eating fruits for energy?
BTW, I am currently floowing induction rules so i dont know if i can skip all of those rungs.

In my personal experience, my body needs more than 20 net carbs daily in order to do the amount of exercise I do so that I don't feel fatigued throughout the day, lose the appetite suppression benefit of Atkins and hit a plateau. I tried upping the fat intake during that time, and I didn't lose pounds or inches. Moreover, I was still feeling fatigued and hungry. Eating closer to my CCLL has been the only solution for me.

As I said earlier, you might want to consider moving to the OWL phase. Re-read the OWL chapters in the book and read through the stickies in the OWL forum to see how to do OWL correctly.

**IronEagle** · October 19, 2005, 12:19 PM

Re: question about weight lifting on induction and atkins in general

I try to stay under 40 carbs a day and love getting into the gym. I have been back into it since the end of May and there is nothing like that feeling of "the pump"!

I have no problems with energy for lifting and doing 1 hour on level 8-10 on the eliptical after my lifting workouts.

Are you perhaps overtraining? I used to do full body workouts three nights a week and it was too much. I am better able to target certain body parts with my new workout and it is giving me great results. Losing flab while bulking up.

Sat-Wed nights 1 hr eliptical after lifting weights.

Sunday- Legs
Monday-Chest
Tuesday-Shoulders/back
Wed-Arms

I also work my abs four nights a week on the weighted abs machine,

Another question is are you getting the correct nutritional support? You should try Universal's Animal Pak.

Here is some info on Animal Pak:

There's nothing like it in the world. For you, getting it is more important than getting anything else. We're talking about the pump. Just the thought of blood flooding into your muscles, fueling them with nutrients and oxygen and giving you that engorged feeling gets you fired up every time. Hey, it's time to hit the weights. It's time to get your pump on.

Since 1984, Animal Pak has been helping competitive bodybuilders get the most out of their freakish training routines by providing all the nutrition they need, plus some they didn't know they needed. For 17 straight years, people like you have made Animal Pak the #1 selling training pak in the world. In fact, more competitive bodybuilders have cut their teeth on the Animal Pak than any other bodybuilding supplement in history. Why? Simple. Animal Pak gets the job done. It works. First time. Every time. Animal Pak has stood the test of time.

See, nature, in all her ingenuity, has designed the human body as the ultimate training machine. Since the dawn of mankind, our bodies have changed very little. And when it comes to growing our muscles in a freakish way, we still need the right combination and mega-doses of essential amino acids,vitamins, minerals, antioxidants, and essential fatty acids (EFA's). Only Animal Pak has everything you need.

OK, so you think your regular multi is going to cut it? Get real, Jack. You want massive size and mega-strength and only Animal Pak can deliver. Each Animal Pak starts with mega-doses of necessary vitamins and minerals. Yeah, vitamins and minerals. Vitamins (organic) and minerals (inorganic) are pharmacological agents and catalysts. They can exert significant ergogenic/anabolic benefits and function as the spark plugs for activating all the necessary chemical reactions which make training and building muscle possible.

If you're training or dieting hard for a contest, the first thing that happens when you don't take the Animal Pak is that nutritional gaps begin to form. Why should you care? Because over time, these deficiencies continue to grow. Eventually, your body will stop functioning at its optimum level. In other words, you hit the wall, your development reaches a plateau. In fact, even if only one key nutrient is missing from your diet, your body could shut down the anabolic drive needed to build muscle so that it can support more critical metabolic processes. When this happens, you stop growing.

Research has proven that strength athletes such as bodybuilders and powerlifters, due to the intensity and frequency of their training programs, have higher nutritional requirements than regular athletes. Studies have shown that these unique needs are greatly increased for bodybuilders who regularly compete and need to diet down. During calorie-restricted diets (diets which tend to be repetitive and monotonous, e.g., rice and chicken), the potential for nutritional deficiencies increase dramatically.

I also take Universal's Animal Stak 2. This is a suppliment pack "contains effective doses of patented and proven ingredients designed to help you naturally enhance your own body's ability to produce anabolic hormone levels." When you have higher than normal body fat levels you produce more estrogen. Which is not good for us weightlifting guys.

More info:

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When it comes to optimizing hormone levels, there's a couple of things to take into consideration: (1) first, you'd want to make sure your testosterone levels aren't low - nutritional deficiencies can cause low serum testosterone levels; (2) you'd want to minimize the conversion of anabolic hormones like testosterone to hormones such as estrogen and dihydrotestosterone (DHT); (3) finally, you'd want to make sure that your ratios of “free” testosterone to “total” testosterone are advantageous.

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Paks link

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**aznsuperstar** · October 19, 2005, 08:51 PM

Re: question about weight lifting on induction and atkins in general

well i have been at 170 for about 3 weeks now, sometimes i go up and down a little +-3...but i dont seem to be losing much more weight..

**aznsuperstar** · October 24, 2005, 03:09 PM

Re: question about weight lifting on induction and atkins in general

second week of lifting weights...and this week im lifting even less than last week!
I could barely bench 115 lbs!!! that was pretty much my max today...
i am very very disappointed.

I noticed one of you said you get about 40 grams a day when lifting. Where do you get the extra carbs from? Do you eat extra veggies? dairy?
I am seriously considering eating a bowl of old fashioned unsweetened oatmeal before workouts...
Next week I will be moving to OWL. idk if the oatmeal will ruin the whole atkins diet or not...i mean, wont i be burning off those carbs during my workout.

or, if i stay in induction...do you think creatine will help me at this stage? I feel weak as ever. I can even do pushups. I dont knwo whats wrong. maybe i need to eat more

**2big4mysize** · October 25, 2005, 09:40 PM

Re: question about weight lifting on induction and atkins in general

okay in order for your muscle to work right you need to understand the fueling system

they first use the energy stored in the phosphogen system, that is the ATP and the creatine phospahte molecules. this is an anaerobic action and most stuff stored in the mucle cells is gone in under 10 seconds. Then they start on the glycogen stored in them cause it too has a P molecule stored with the glucose. Most of the stored stuff is gone in under 2 min and you start creating ATP molecules to burn. High carb eaters have a limit on the amount of stored energy in the form of glucose stored in their bodies and need to constantly fuel up for workouts. When they deplete their stores their bodies turn to their stored fats too just like our Atkins fed bodies use. I'm sure you have been working out tired and suddenly got your "second wind" . that is when your body switched to fats for fuel and you had more Atp molecules to bust for energy again. those high carbers who don't switch hit the wall as they say.
In order to move those fats you need a lot more then a mulit VP if you were a high carber. Dr Atkins tells you about all the supplements he feels you will need like aceytl L carnitine which is discussed in depth in the supplements section http://www.atkinsdietbulletinboard.c...ead.php?t=1641
but basically that is used to move those fatty acids (that our bodies break down to produce more ATP carbon for carbon then carbohydrates in the beta oxidation process) along inside the mitochondria.
then their are other molecules that transport the byproducts out and help your cells bundle them together to make ketones that other body parts like the heart can use as enegy while you arre working out.
there is a multitude of compounds we Atkins eaters need to develop and it takes a bit of time for our muscles and bodies to grow and produce enough of them when we make the switch.

Keep working out and eating your Atkins. Kent did a long extended induction and can tell you he hit the weights as did many others. I hit the weights in OWL on about 35 net carbs.

the fellow they consider the guru of diet and lifting Lyle McDonald says you only need 40 grams carbs ( not net carbs but just 40 grams) sometime during the day inorder to be fueled and grow muscle tissue.
The human body will store excess proteins in muscle tissue bulking up your muscles too

And then there is the glucogenesis process that can turn the proteins you eat and the hydrocarbon backbone of the fats into glucose in the liver so you are well supplied with fuels eatting Atkins while you are losing weight but you need to help your body utilize those fuels by making sure your internal transportation systems and power plants are in good working order, Spend some time reading your DANDR supplements section and see what you need.

Happy low carbing.

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