Can't seem to eat it all.

[Chicklady]

Re: Can't seem to eat it all.

Well in my book, variety is the spice of life And I said nothing about drowning out flavors! I would never abuse my food that way. And some things....like "lobstah"....need to be naked.....you can't enhance perfection
As for meeting the 20 carbs....well, I'm sure the good Doctor had his reasons for setting "20" as the magic number. Unless we have a medium amongst us, I guess we can't ask him.

[Elizellen]

Re: Can't seem to eat it all.

As for meeting the 20 carbs....well, I'm sure the good Doctor had his reasons for setting "20" as the magic number. Unless we have a medium amongst us, I guess we can't ask him.

You are right, we need instead to look at what he said in DANDR Rules of Induction

3. Eat no more than 20 grams a day of carbohydrate, most of which must come in the form of salad greens and other vegetables. You can eat approximately three cups-loosely packed-of salad, or two cups of salad plus one cup of other vegetables

So we see he said that 20 net carbs was the maximum, not an absolute number and as long as we stay below that number, with most of our net carbs from our veggies(rather than stoking up on cheese and cream etc to 'boost' our carbs), we will be fine!
A while ago we had a 'Eat your Vegetables' challenge where people tried to get 12-15 net carbs from their veggies, and many members managed it by choosing the more carbier ones from the two lists.

[Chicklady]

Re: Can't seem to eat it all.

And yet some of his sample days went up to 22 grams *shrugging*
And then there's heavy cream. Under "beverages" you're allowed 3 tablespoons. under "special category foods" you can have an additional 3 ounces of heavy cream.....or is it a total of 3 ounces between the two groups, or????? Beats me. I'm disagreeing with the "most people eat 10-15 grams" part

[not2late]

Re: Can't seem to eat it all.

And I said nothing about drowning out flavors!

Of course you didn't, but some people definitely do. Most standard recipes use 1 or 2 cloves of garlic for 4-6 servings. That would be about 0.2 garlic carbs per serving---not enough to bump up your daily carbs by any significant amount. Same goes for dried or fresh herbs, 1 teaspoon of dried oregano (0.2 net carbs) or 1/4 cup tablespoons fresh chopped parsley (0.4 net carbs) is usally what a standard recipe for 4-6 servings calls for: again, the carbs they add per serving is neglible.

And yet some of his sample days went up to 22 grams *shrugging*
And then there's heavy cream. Under "beverages" you're allowed 3 tablespoons. under "special category foods" you can have an additional 3 ounces of heavy cream.....or is it a total of 3 ounces between the two groups, or????? Beats me. I'm disagreeing with the "most people eat 10-15 grams" part

Beware about those "sample" menues, because the ones in the book tend to contain foods that directly contradict the "Rules of Induction". The Friday and Saturday menues both feature items that contain grains and/or soy and nuts which are not allowed during Induction. Which is kind of ironic because one of the Rules of Induction is to follow the Rules of Induction.

20 was set because that's the number the majority of us will be in ketosis/lipolysis.

The Special Category Foods have a clause: "But be aware that these food occasionally slow down weight loss in some people, and may need to be avoided in the first two weeks. If you seem to be losing slowly moderate your intake of these foods." Also these foods are to "add variety" according to Dr. Atkins; so if you want to eat a few olives or a half a small avocado, you may but be aware that these foods might cause weight loss difficulties so don't overdo it.

From being on this Board a long time (longer than I would like to admit), I've seen that if you don't eat alot of processed foods, don't eat alot of eggs (alot meaning over 2-3 daily), don't use all the sweeteners, and just really stick to the minimally processed foods and really follow the 2 cups "salad list" + 1 cup "other list"/ 3 cups "salad" list vegetable plans, then you're not likely to eat exactly 20 net grams daily, unless you eat the higher carb veggies like jicama, pumpkin/spaghetti squash, tomatoes, onions, artichokes, collard greens, Brussels sprouts, celeriac, etc. But with the exception of jicama, the remainder are limited to 1 cup during Induction. Moreover, the Induction Rules state if a vegetable cooks down "significantly" then it must be measured raw before cooking, so that volume difference affects the number of carbs the food will have.

[Chicklady]

Re: Can't seem to eat it all.

Well I imagine the 20 is much more productive than the Eades 45 grams. I read that book after I was already on Atkins, and had I read it first I probably would have started there and then wondered why it wasn't working. even now, it's hard to get in 15 per meal.

BTW, a lot of those herbs and spices are a good source of fiber too....always an important consideration Use to make my own poppy seed dressing cause all the stuff in the store is so sweet. I just do oil and vinegar now, and sprinkle poppy seeds on top of my salad....nice nutty crunch. Not how I grew up eating poppy seeds (poppy seed filled rolls!!) but nice none the less.

Beware about those "sample" menues, because the ones in the book tend to contain foods that directly contradict the "Rules of Induction". The Friday and Saturday menues both feature items that contain grains and/or soy and nuts which are not allowed during Induction. Which is kind of ironic because one of the Rules of Induction is to follow the Rules of Induction.

Exactly. Makes ya wonder if anyone proofread. My frankenfoods are very limited this
time around because last time I discovered them to be quite disgusting (though they didn't stall me) But how about the Newbies who are listening to you guys say "we follow the 2002 edition" and then not explain those contradictions?

I guess I can't be claiming to do Atkins ver batum either----I have a problem with taking pills to replace what food is supposed to provide, and even during induction, ustilizing the full 20 grams of carbs, all the RDAs can be met and many exceeded. I like that. Most low calorie or low fat diets won't do that for you!!

[not2late]

Re: Can't seem to eat it all.

According to Dr. Atkins, for most people, once they reach a carb level of 50 they stop registering on those ketosticks. So I guess from a psychological point of view, it would be disheartening if those things didn't turn. But since diets with 130 grams of carb or less are considered "low carbohydrate", it really shouldn't be a worry.

RE: the Frankenfoods...

I've given up lecturing Newbies about the frankenfoods and how they contradict the rules. It's too much of a headache. So, I usually write what the collective experience of the board has been with them and I copy the Rules. I also mention the financial interest Atkins Nutritionals had with their food line. (If you ever get a chance to read "The Atkins Essentials", do so----it's one huge advertisement for Atkins Nutritionals's convenience food line.) In other words, I give them what I think they need to make an informed decision about them. If they want to try them out, it's up to them because they know the risks/benefit ratio.

[Chicklady]

Re: Can't seem to eat it all.

Hmmm Haven't used those sticks----saw the price and got "stick"er shock. I just figured that when I stopped losing, I'd hit my magic number!
But lest you think Atkins Nutritionals is the worst thing that could happen to the Atkins diet, I dare you to read the 80's (and probably earlier) edition. I'm pretty sure that's why Atkins got the rep of being unhealthy, and the changes he made in the 90's have made his diet healthful, and doable for life.

[not2late]

Re: Can't seem to eat it all.

I've read the earlier books. Frankly, I think Atkins got a bad rep from those books because people thought the initial phase (Induction) was the entire diet---just like they still do today.

In the 1970s and 80s, Atkins recommended 1 to 2 weeks on the Induction phase and then move onto the OWL equivalent, which I don't think many people did (as they still don't do now.) So Atkins continues to get a bad rep---the "bacon-egg-cheese-and steak only" diet. Occasionally we have people who swear on their children's lives that they have read the book, but ask questions like "Why can't I eat chicken on Atkins?" or "I cheated so badly: I ate some broccoli last night, now I have to start all over again!" etc. It makes you wonder what book they read, since those foods were allowed even in the 1972 book!

[Chicklady]

Re: Can't seem to eat it all.

He himself calls it the "steak and salad diet" in the edition I have. In addition, after induction, his instructions are to "add back what you miss the most". Well what do you think that leads to???? I know what I did He left far too many things discretionary, and the ensuing negativity about his diet was his fault. In the 80s edition I have, he says he doesn't ask his patients to add foods back in a particular order, nor will he ask that of his readers. Guess he learned how weak people are, cause there are surely many changes in the "NEW" revolution.
I guess like most of us, he learned from his experiences, and those of his patients.
Of course, if you want a particularly odd low carb diet, go back to the original low carb diabetes patient who wrote his own diet book. William Banting, I think, maybe Bunting. Somewhere around 1870. Interesting read. Too bad oldtimers has set in or I could be more specific

[not2late]

Re: Can't seem to eat it all.

Well, I think Dr. Atkins thought people would actually take the time to read his book in its entirety, rather than rely on little snippets or newsbites of it. But that's not the case. Gary Taubes will get the same treatment because his book has a small feature in the January 2008 Ladies Home Journal. And the LHJ's title of the article is along the same "don't exercise, don't eat fruits or vegetables, just eat a lot of meat and fat" thing.

I'll have to dig out my copies of the older books, but I quite certain that there is a scanty guide on how and what to add back.

Anyhow, the 2002 ed it much more complete and much more detailed in its instructions. That's why we use it here as opposed to using the 1972 or 1992 versions.

[Chicklady]

Re: Can't seem to eat it all.

Oh for sure. It's come a million miles! Don't get me wrong---I followed the 1985(I finally looked) version my first go round and it worked. My concern is, had I followed it for life, what would my health be? Of course, I didn't care then. My mortality didn't set in until my early 40's I was invincible until then!! Following this edition, along with the use of Fitday, I know I can maintain good health and a well fed immune system for the rest of my life. Well, if I ever succeed in quitting smoking

[not2late]

Re: Can't seem to eat it all.

I think it depends on how you did it. For example, if you used your carbs for veggies, fruits, legumes, and grains, your overall health probably wouldn't be affected. But if you spent your carbs on low carb snacks, alcohol, etc. then your overall health probably wouldn't be good. However, I think that happens in almost any diet. When I was a vegetarian, I knew vegetarians who used to load up on vegetarian foods like potato chips, cookies, soy-based treats, etc. They were thin, but I don't think they were very healthy. And from what I hear about some folks following weight watchers, they save up their points in order to eat the weight watcher treats like cakes, cookies, etc. That's not very healthy either.

The "misuse" of the carb allowance is the reason why Dr. Atkins got rid of the Alcohol Rung of OWL in the Atkins For Life book. He wrote that people began using their limited daily carbs to drink alcoholic beverages rather than on healthy foods like veggies, fruits, etc. Valid Rogue made a very good point a couple of months ago that folks here on ADBB will find every way to include 2-5 net carbs worth of low carb treats into their menues, but freak out and panic that they'll stop losing weight if they eat 2 more net carbs of broccoli!

It's all about food choices. If you choose to eat nutritionally deficient foods on any diet, you won't be as healthy as someone who is eating the more nutritious foods.

[Chicklady]

Re: Can't seem to eat it all.

He wrote that people began using their limited daily carbs to drink alcoholic beverages rather than on healthy foods like veggies, fruits, etc.

Been there, done that. that goes back to that immortality thing.....
Now this old bitty gets heartburn with half a drink Now the only "junk" in my house (except for my husbands) is artificially sweetened chocolate. I'm still trying to figure out what rung that belongs to. Is cacao a bean? a nut?

[Elizellen]

Re: Can't seem to eat it all.

A cocoa nut is a seed, so unsweetened cocoa powder would be legal in 5 net carb amounts on the nuts/seeds rung.

[Chicklady]

Re: Can't seem to eat it all.

Thank you Ma'am *tipping hat* Some of them critters don't seem to fit into categories very well.