Rung Climbing vs. decreasing fats

[Mindykins]

Hi Guys ha

Question - when you add rungs (5 carbs at a time) do you begin to eliminate some fat from your diet or just the ratios of fat-to-carbs changes?

It has always confused me in the book when Dr. A. says you naturally begin to decrese fats.

For instance. If I have 2 cups of salad greens with Tuna chunks on top and I add 5 carbs almonds and 5 carbs chick peas (assuming I'm up to this rung), do I decrease the amount of whole fat salad dressing I am using to compensate for the increased carbs or keep it the same???

This has always confused me :confused

[sadie147]

I jsut found that it happened naturally for me. As i added the veggies, berrys, grains, nuts, legumes etc, i started eating more of them..and less meats, creams cheeses etc. This will also bring your carb totals up a bit higher as well...

You'll find you don't eat the same amount of the induction foods , as you add your 'new' OWL foods in. I'm hoping this makes sense? LOL.

Well this is how I found it worked anyway. Usually now my fat total is around 50%, rather than 65.

Someone may have a better/clearer explanation?

[not2late]

The fat to carb ratio decreases slightly as you increase carbs. By teh time you reach maintenance, you're fat % will be around 50%.

I guess the best way to do it is to make a menu ahead of time and plug it into fitday to see the percentages, then adjust them accordingly.

[Mindykins]

OK - so one answer is 1) that you may start to eliminate some fats as you add higher carb foods (Sadie) and 2) the ratio does change by simply adding carbs (not2late). See what I mean?

So I guess this means that if I did nothing more than just add the carbs I am following OWL correctly, but I may be inclined to not add some fats, like a 1 oz cheese snack, etc....

See why it is confusing!!!

[sadie147]

OK - so one answer is 1) that you may start to eliminate some fats as you add higher carb foods (Sadie) and 2) the ratio does change by simply adding carbs (not2late). See what I mean?

So I guess this means that if I did nothing more than just add the carbs I am following OWL correctly, but I may be inclined to not add some fats, like a 1 oz cheese snack, etc....

See why it is confusing!!!

I think Megs and I are saying the same thing: Basically when you add the higher carb foods, you automatically start eating less of the high fat foods, not by alot..but enough that it lowers your fat intake. example: I still have my steak or chicken etc for dinner, but I eat alot more with it, making my portion of that smaller, i have alot more veggies which fills me up. I also find my snacks are lower in fat, i used to snack on cheese alot, now i just love my berries, which of course are lower fat. Sometimes I will have a home made microwave bun (made with wheat bran and flax) with organic s/f p. butter and s/f jam for breakfast, when in induction my b'fast was almost always eggs with bacon or sausage, or an omlettes with sausage and cheese. I still have those things for b'fast occaisionally, but not nearly as often. I also think this is why OWL is great for breaking up the boredom.

And actually as Megs said, adding your menu to fitday will help for the first little while. I actually did this myself to keep myself in check for the first while in OWL, and even maintenance.

...I still use fitday daily..but i'be become somewhat of a Fitday addict :geek

[2big4mysize]

it is confusing to say the least but look at your induction food choices you were limited to 3 cups of vegies and the rest was all fats and proteins in your food choices so you have lots of higher fat snacks. Now you have some slightly lower fat snack options like berries with a small amount of whipped cream say 2T instead ofdeviled eggs, less fat more carbs. it doesn't take much cutting of fat foods to change those amounts. Say you cut 2T of fat from your total for today, for 2000 cal eating that would be a 10% cut in fats see it doesn't take hardly any fat cutting to get those totals lowered.

[Mindykins]

Good thread guys, thanks! :hug :hug :hug

I think I will make conscious decisions to curb some fats from the snack area and maybe reduce the portion size of meats when I add the extra carbs.

[not2late]

So I guess this means that if I did nothing more than just add the carbs I am following OWL correctly, but I may be inclined to not add some fats, like a 1 oz cheese snack, etc....

See why it is confusing!!!

Your protein amount (grams) stays the same throughout the entire diet. Your fat amount (grams) should too. If the fat grams stay constant, then as you increase the carbs, the fat percentage will decrease "naturally".

To see this happen on paper, go to fitday and plug in 2 tablespoons of mayonnaise and 1 cup of lettuce. The fat % is 96% and the carb is 2%. Now add 4 net carbs of broccoli to that. The fat % is 82% and the carb is 8%. The fat percentage decreased and the only thing you changed was the carb amount. That's why some folks will tell you as you increase your carbs, your fat percentages decrease "naturally"---provided you eat the same amount of fats that you have been eating during Induction (they leave that part out ).

For example, you eat 5 net carbs of cottage cheese at breakfast, you might want to eat an ounce or two less of the Induction cheeses for the rest of the day. The reason for this is two-fold: 1. Cheese is a calorie dense food, so if you overdo the cheese, you'll be over-doing the calories and you'll either stall or stop losing weight. 2. You want to keep your fat amounts (grams) the constant.

The problem some folks run into is that they increase their carbs and increase their fat intake rather than keeping the fat amount the same. For example, you normally eat 2 tablespoons of an oil and vinegar dressing on your 2 cup Induction salad. During rung 1 you decide to add 5 net carbs of red bell pepper to that 2 cup salad. You should only use 2 tablespoons of the oil and vinegar dressing, rather than increasing the dressing to 3 or 4 tablespoons.

I hope that clears it up for you....

[Mindykins]

[quote="not2late"] i]provided you eat the same amount of fats that you have been eating during Induction[/i] (they leave that part out ).


A-HA!!!!!!!!!!!!

For example, you eat 5 net carbs of cottage cheese at breakfast, you might want to eat an ounce or two less of the Induction cheeses for the rest of the day. The reason for this is two-fold: 1. Cheese is a calorie dense food, so if you overdo the cheese, you'll be over-doing the calories and you'll either stall or stop losing weight. 2. You want to keep your fat amounts (grams) the constant.

The problem some folks run into is that they increase their carbs and increase their fat intake rather than keeping the fat amount the same.

A-HA! Again! Yes this clears things up. Thanks so much Megs!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! !!!!

[Mindykins]

I know I sound like a broke record to those of you who know me, but I haven't lost weight in 7 months due to not being able to exercise, due to a broken foot that won't heal properly.

I still am on doctors orders not to exercise (long story, trust me, OK?) but my doc is extremely proud of me that I have been able to maintain my weight, as most people would gain without exercise. He says, "you've been really careful of what you are eating".

But I have not reduced my fat on the OWL rungs. I am very guilty of still eating cheese when I have ricotta in the same day. I watch my calories in fitday but the one thing I have not done is decrease the fats, so it is possible if i do this a smidge, based on your good logic, I may be able to rev the metabolism a bit while still waiting to get back on my feet exercise wise. And, my pool has finally warmed up so I will begin swimming this weekend (even that hurts my foot believe it or not!). And since I can't exercise I think I need to reduce my calories about 200 points or so.

Thanks again. This has been VERY helpful!!!!!!!

[2big4mysize]

oh u beklieve you about the pool hurting your foot I know swimming doesn't not hurt my knee as everybody said it would :nono

Actually you do lower your fats some but again it is a very small amount because we still only eat enough food to satisfy our hunger so if you have that induction salad Not2late just mentioned and you add your new carbs of a lettuce/mushroom/radish mix to it of say 3 net carbs you will find your hunger satisfied with some of that salad still sitting in the bowl with some of the dressing sticking to it. so you save it for your snack later and when you have that you don't have as many peperoni chips for snack as you did in induction cause once again your hunger is satisfied from the left over salad and you stop eatting. make more sense now?
Most OWL stallers don't understand and they just keep adding more foods as they climb the rungs and more cals too.

[Mindykins]

yes it is very clear now :yes

Fit day should be a mandatory part of climbing the rungs. It is for me but I still need to adjust some calories downwards when I add the more calorie dense foods like ricotta and nuts!!

[DebbietheHugBug]

I don't have anything to add.

I just wanted to say that this thread just pieced together the puzzle I couldn't conquer.

Thank you, Mindy... for knowing how to ask the question in the first place. I was starting to think that OWL wasn't working for me because I'm not losing anymore.

Sadie, Megs, 2Big.... HUGE thanks! ha

[Mindykins]

LOL Debbie!!! It took me months and months to finally ask the question in the right way!!!

The real trick is to watch your calories when you add the new foods. If you just keep piling the calories on top you can stall out which can be confused with reaching your CCL, but it isn't the same thing!

Since I haven't been exercising (doctors orders) I forgot to lower my calories, so of course I stalled!

This has been an excellent thread because now I have the tools to make some good adjustments!!!

[DebbietheHugBug]

I have been watching my calories! According to the BMR sites, I'm suppose to stay between 1331-1499. I stay within that, even while exercising, although it says I can go as high as 1600.

I hope your foot gets better so you can exercise again. Swimming is great! I don't know what happened to you but I'm facing surgery on my right foot someday so I'll be limited when that happens. Right now, the cortisone shot the doc gave me is still working but it won't last forever.

I hope pretty soon we can both post losses! :icondance