Some Thoughts on Depression from a New Member

[Peterlock]

Hi Folks! :wave

I'm really glad to have both found this wonderful community of support and a board dealing with issues of depression.

A little background - I've suffered from depression for 30 years, was diagnosed with Long term Dysthymic disorder back in 89 and have had treatment resistant depression as well for most of my adult life.

Here are some things I believe to be true I'm not a (know it all!) but maybe something in this post will be of value to someone - plus I have a reccomendation for a great must see film.

Depression and a depressive episode are two entirely different things. Most people experience depressive episodes and work though them. Depression however is a chronic illness there is no cure. It's a disease that has to be managed like diabetes through drugs and therapy - research shows that in the long run one rarely works without the other.

General Practitioners don't have the expertise to treat depression effectively - a good Psychiatrist is mandatory for anyone suffering from depressive disorders.

Telling a depressed person to "just snap out of it" is equivalent to telling a person with shattered legs to just get up and dance. If someone in your life has this kind of perspective on your condition you can always try to educate them but unfortunately many people including Doctors who don't specialize in these diseases (and that's what depression is - a disease) are unable or unwilling to grasp just how devastating and difficult living with depression can be.

Finding the right Meds isn't easy, I've been on every SSRI there is with the exception of Paxil as well as MAOI's. I went from a cocktail of Prozac, Celexa and Neurontin to the relatively new Cymbalta which is an SSNRI and in clinical trials doesn't cause weight gain and a significant number of people found their appetite actually decreased significantly. Unfortunately not the case for me!

If you're thinking about stopping, switching or reducing your Meds Please make sure you discuss this with your Psychiatrist...and one last thing...

If you haven't see the film "Dead Blue" it's a must for anyone who has depression or who lives with /loves someone with depression. It's a documentary featuring Mike Wallace, William Styron (Author of Sophies Choice) and a Psychologist - all of who suffer from sever depression.

It's a brilliant film, as each of these three people share their journey towards getting well and is without the doubt the most eloquent and effective explanation of what depression feels like and the struggle to deal with it that I have ever seen.

If you get the chance I really urge you to rent it!

Take care everyone!

Peter

[2big4mysize]

Thanks for sharing and since you know you have an ongoing medical problem be sure and get your medication levels checked as you do your Atkins as some meds and Atkins don't mix as they both compet for the same liver enzymes. It is like the hypothyroid folk as long as your meds stay in range you will feel better but you got to keep checking and keep taking your meds or it will all come back.

[ztachick]

Just wanted to say that i thought your post was great- i hate it when people just go to there regular doctor and get pills for depression- they may not even have it- there are other thigns that mimic it.... welocme to atkins and this board...

[Peterlock]

Hi,

Thanks for taking the time to read my post.

2big4mysize you make an excellent point. The number of people on anti depressants who never have their blood work done is staggering.

Even worse the number of Physicians who doll out these potentially dangerous medications like the would antibiotics to anyone with a complaint of "feeling depressed" has reached epidemic proportions. Complete Blood panels are so important.

Stephanie you and I are on the exact same page too. But what to me is worse is again these doctors who prescribe these medications on a hunch and guess rather than a diagnosis. I remember being shocked when I had switched doctors many years ago and he insisted on doing my blood work - but sure glad he did!

Thanks to you both for the great feedback, it's a pleasure to meet you!

Peter :wave

[loonatika]

Great post Peter - welcome to the board

[da Walnut]

fantastic post :yes

Welcome to the board Peter.

[bizzlekitty]

Good post and welcome to the board.

I too was given an antidepressant (Paxil) by my primary physician for depression (and also to help with serontonin for my fibro, but not sure it really helped much with that) and eventually got off it (after nasty withdrawals). I was also prone to panic attacks, etc. I never received counseling or advice to go it either.

Change of diet, and taking extra vitamins has done more for me than the Paxil ever did. I still get down some, especially when dealing with a chronic illness, but I can honestly say it's your typical blues.

There are definitely people who need treatment, and that's good advice, you really need to work with counseling, not just your doctor, but professional help to proper diagnose you and assist you with treatment.

I'll have to check out Dead Blue, maybe they have it on Netflix!

[tabekat]

Blue

Really good post peter, and I adore your beautiful cat. there have been many times when the fear of what would happen to my cat has kept me going more than anything else. my cat Lucy means everything to me.

i can so relate to your situation. i actually know the drug that works for me and never had to experiment. prozac, for me, is great. however, i have not been able to stay at the same job or keep insurance. so i get on it, then get off it, never by choice. and then there is the humiliation of having to ask a doctor to prescribe it for me or re-prescribe it for me and having to convince the doctor why I need it. as if I were asking for a fricking narcotic. they always have this look - like I could use the drug to get high or something...I WISH!

or sometimes they say, if only I would eat right, exercise, be a little more cheerful, i could probably get off the drug...sigh!

and then there are the conversations that begin with "how do you know you are really depressed?" when you have this invisible 1000 pound weight of immovable darkness constantly riding your ***. which no one can see but you. and then there are the counselors good and bad, who want to "wean" you off the prozac when it is the only thing that gives you enough coping skill to even start dealing with your other problems.

lol...look at me go.
okay, enough whining. just wanted you to know I can totally appreciate what you shared. glad you are here.

[Peterlock]

Hi

Bizzlekitty, I'm so glad you got off of Paxil and are doing ok from what I have heard the withdraw is very difficult and the manufacturer Smith Glaxo Klien still insists it's not addictive...right!

I'm on netflix too and checked to see if they have it but they don't. I went to the help section where you can request movies and sent one in. Isn't Netflix great for me it's like shopping when I can't sleep I rate movies and fill up my Queue! I've rated 5,320 movies..I think have too much time on my hands!

If you want to add me to your friends list it's the same s/n as on here.

Peter

[Peterlock]

Tabekat,

Thanks so much for sharing your story with me. I know just how you feel about Lucy - it's the same for me. No matter how down I get or how isolated I feel my animals are always here for me..I also have a dog named Tucker he's a 140 10 year old Akita and him and Boccie are the best of friends.

If someone doesn't like animals that's always been a huge red flag for me.

When I first took Prozac back in 89 it really worked amazingly well but I went off and on it so many times that like so often happens it just wasn't working so I had to keep switching meds over and over which in itself is a nightmare because you go through all the side effects, and have to wait 6-8 weeks just to see if it helps. Only to find out it's not the right med and start all over from scratch...ugh!

As for bad and insensitive doctors you're so right and there's no shortage of them, asking what I call all those "out of the brochure questions" and making everything so much harder. But once you find a good one who really cares about you it makes up for all the bad experiences.

I have MS which has been pretty stable (knocks on wood) and no health insurance. But found a Dr who has really been a godsend. He knows my financial problems so he gives me a months worth of Cybmalta samples at a time and is saving me $600 a month by just doing that alone.

All these guys have closets full of those starter packs and samples coz remember they get rewards based on how many perscriptions they write...and I could write a book on how corrupt that whole thing is but that's another story!....anyway if you could get some samples of your Prozac it would be a huge help.

I just made the decision to try and wing it without my meds but I already feel weird and dizzy - I'll see my Dr on Monday and if he wants me back on it, I'll just have to pray that eventually the weight will come off.

I also take Clonopin which I can't stop because it's a benzo..I was addicted to Xanax for eleven years and the detox was awful - 2 weeks in the hospital and then 6 months to wean me off ...it was a bad time but it's history.

ok enough whining lol..I'm really doing fine and hope you are too...now when are you going to post a pic of Lucy? I can't wait to see her.

Peter

[Momma Yamo]

Hi there!

Hi! Thanks for sharing your story. It's so heartening to hear people understand that depression is a disease. I've been diagnosed with depression since 7th grade (I'm 45 now) and I've had everything and I mean everything!

Just this past year I tried ECT (Electro-Convulsive Therapy) Shock treatments...(back in August), and so far I've been doing really good. I still take Wellbutrin, because I had been taking it before ECT, and I'm not sure if Dr. wants to wean me off it or not. So, far, since I'm doing great, he feels, why change what's working.

Anyway, a lot of people are so fearful of ECT and it doesn't help when the entertainment world of books and movies make it look like only psychotic lunatics who won't get well anyway have it done. I get kind of defensive about it, I guess. Especially since it has helped me where nothing else has. I mean, I was so self-destructive, I'd tried suicide over 10 times since I was 9 years old. I didn't even know WhY?!!?

Obviously, this is an only recourse that a psychiatrist can recommend for someone who's had everything else. If it's done right, it is not painful, but I did have one bad experienc when I wasn't completely "under" when the treatment started. Other than that one time, I don't remember any of the other treatments, I believe there was a course of 10-12, I can't recall.

The only bad thing is that there is some memory loss, but overall, my memory function is returning. I'm improving daily, which is a constant feeling of awe. I have my ups and downs like everybody else, but I don't have that feeling of utter despair and self-hate. I can actually look forward and feel that things will get better.

Well, I just wanted to share my experience. Hope you don't mind.

[Peterlock]

Hi Momma Yamo :wave

Thanks for such a wonderful and candid response, I was diagnosed with depression very early as well - I was eleven years old but back then they called it simply "behavior disorder"

Now at 47 so much has changed but it wasn't until my early 20's that I actually received my first real diagnosis and began a regime of meds that continues to this day. I'm so glad Wellbutrin worked for you as did ECT. You're so very right about the stigma with both mental illness and ECT

People have such a terrible impression of ECT because of the way it's been portrayed in the movies and books. And I suppose with good reason as with all medical procedures it had it's dark days, especially when they would induce insulin shock instead of electricity...ugh all those awful images like from the movie Frances...they still make me uncomfortable till this day if I think of Jessica Lang strapped to that bed...ugh.

But the truth is ECT is a very progressive and helpful therapy and I'm so glad it's worked for you. My understanding is that now you're sedated and given muscle relaxers so there aren't any convulsions. My Dr has suggested ECT to me and we've discussed it only many occasions. I don't there's any research that shows ECT being any less or more potentially harmful than the meds - which directly effect the brain as well.

Hard to believe that in this day and age Depression is still so misunderstood and carries such a stigma. After all you can call in sick to work with a common cold but not depression. Even most insurance benefits limit the money you can spend on care and treatment to such a low amount it's practically of no use at all.

On the bright side, I think as long as people with depressive illness keep talking about it and sharing their experiences things are bound to change for the better, at least that's my hope.

Thank you for sharing your story with me, I admire your courage and openness and hope the short term memory loss gets better. I've been on the relatively new drug Cymbalta for about a year I think and my memory has gotten terrible! I leave the stove on, forget where my car is parked and things like that but it's nothing I can't live...I guess because I don't remember it!

Thanks again for sharing your story.

Peter

[Momma Yamo]

Hi Peterlock

Hey there, how's it going? Sorry to hear about the memory problems for you too. Have you talked to your doctor about reducing the amount slightly or is that not an option? Well, hope things get better.

At any rate, I love those photos behind you in your pic. Really beautiful and I see you love cats too. We have three.

Well, I just restarted induction again today and the 6WEC #16, so I'm really excited about the diet. Hopefully things will go well.

Take care!

[DebbietheHugBug]

Peter,

Thank you for this subject. My oldest daughter suffers from depression. 9-1/2 years ago, she tried to kill herself 3 times. She had been on Paxil, which obviously doesn't work for her. Her father suffers horribly from depression and has also had ECT treatments.

She sees a Therapist when necessary. I know after those episodes, she went off her meds and was taking herbs and supplements for a more natural treatment. I don't know when, but she went back to medication.

This last Saturday, she turned 31. Sunday she was in the hospital from another suicide attempt. She said that her meds stopped working and her new one had not kicked in yet. She will be in the psyche ward for at least another week and will go to day treatments.

I guess the reason for my post is, you are in those shoes. How do I deal with this? I talked to her on the phone last night. I tried so hard to keep things light and not say the things I really wanted to say (outbursts). She told me she didn't want me to go out there (she's in OR, I'm in UT). What things can I say and/or do to help her? Last time, before I left her, I made her promise me that she would call me if she got suicidal thoughts again. And how can I know in my heart that she will be ok when I can't see it for myself?

Thanks!

[Peterlock]

Hi Debbie,

Thank you so much for sharing your story and my heart goes to you, your daughter and husband. Clinical depression is more often than not traced to hereditary factors much like any other disease from cancer to diabetes.

Depression is an incredibly, merciless disease, when your daughter is suicidal it's her disease that's in control and making those choices for her - just as it was for me. I think one of the hardest things is the amount of pain and fear that parents, spouses and loved ones of a person with this level of depression is that their support systems are incredibly limited.

And although there are many online support groups:

www.healthyplace.com/communities/ depression/children.htm

www.childparenting.about.com/ cs/disorders/a/childdepression.htm

https://www.focusas.com/SelfHelp.html

I think it might make sense for you to arrange a visit with her Doctors. The primary reason would be to get as firm a diagnosis as you can and the secondary reason would be to understand the treatments and therapies recommended for her. I can tell you that from my own experience, being hospitalized and then following up with an out patient program saved my life.

It's only in the hospital for an extended stay that the proper blood work, tests and eventually working diagnosis can be made so she's definitely in the best possible place she could be right now.

Although I have no doubt you tell yourself this and have been told over and over...my doubt is, especially when it comes to your child that you believe it -- and that is:

• * You are not responsible in any way for her illness
  * There is no connection between your love for her and her Illness
  * You have no more control over it or power to change it and cure her than you would if she had Cancer

I often wonder how my own parents survived it. I wonder as well how my partner Sean has been able to live with me and this disease for seventeen years. I carry deep guilt about it as well as gratitude.

Taking care of your daughter will be easier if your taking care of yourself. I urge you with my all heart to find a good counselor to work with, someone you can vent with, you can cry to. Someone who can guide you into a healthier stronger state of mind when having to confront and deal with the overwhelming demands and heartache of loving someone so dear to you who suffers from this hellacious, life sapping disease.

ECT is an excellent therapy with results that often outshine traditional pharmaceutically based ones. It's not te horror story you've seen in the movies and has brought people back from the absolute worst depths of depression - when every other treatment has failed.

As to what you can do? you're already doing it, loving her, supporting her and praying for her. More major advances have been made in the treatment of depression in the past few years - than in the past few decades - so there's more hope and possibility than ever before.

Not knowing your daughters diagnosis and having no medical experience whatsoever. I still would ask her attending case Dr about two drugs a newer one called Remeron which has been proven to help reduce suicidal tendencies to a remarkable agree. You can learn more about remeron, they have an excellent website with many suggestions for dealing with depressed family members and loved ones - here's the link

https://www.remeron.com

Stay in contact with her Dr. if you can't make the trip, schedule a telephone consultation. Make yourself as pro active as you can in her treatment, regardless of what she says, deep down and under the the agony of her illness she needs you. So until she's stabilized you and her Dr should make these kinds of decisions, she's' just not well enough yet.

Debbie, your daughter can beat this, she can learn to manage her depression so a full life is still possible. Never lose hope, never feel alone and take the very best care of yourself during this time as you can - I wish your daughter a new start and a long overdue recovery

Peter