Energy for a long cycle ride

[Labarum]

I have been cycling recently and enjoying the country lanes around here. I can ride without strain for an hour or more. If I want to cycle for 4 hours or more, what should I eat before and during the excercise?

The biking forum I have viewed recommends pasta and oats - so slow release carbs. That's no good on Atkins. What do the experts recommend?

[2big4mysize]

make you some Atkins GORP if you are in OWL or higher. dried berries/fruits depending on what rung you are on, shredded coconut, nuts and seeds and you have a great slow releasing Atkins enegry needs filling snack. Take lots of water too.

You can make cheese chips if you are in induction or jerky and they make some cool fanny packs with coolers so you can take anything you normally eat as a snack too.

If you are just riding a long ride not raqcing like the tour de france you should be fine with your normal Atkins eating before at its normal times. Making sure you stay well hydrated is the key. Our bodies have a 2-3 day store of energy they can tap into ands most folk reach mental fatigue from their nerve pathways way before they run out of fuel for the muscles so watch your electrolyles and pick foods for your GORP with high potassium and some sodium too.
You should tell your friends that the studies show endurance rides do better with fats for fuel.

Have fun riding.

We had a fellow about your age here in 2003 that was riding in long mountain rides on Atkins and he did just fine.

[Labarum]

OK 2big, so what mean you by GORP?

I wont be racing - me a plodder!

[Richt]

I'm with 2 big on this one. As its just 4 hours I would recomend that you just make sure you take plenty of fluids with you. There is probably no need to eat anything different from what you are eating now, before you set off.

Just my opinion really, I am basing it on my own experiences in the gym where I have been known to do a three hour session. I found that water was the key.

I hope this helps.

Rich

[2big4mysize]

sorry that is a scouting term for hiking foods and is Good Old Raisins and Peanuts. they now call it trail mix too. make yours with a mix of Atkins friendly for your phase foods as listed above. If you can't find dehydrated berries without sugars and will be doing this on a regular bases checkout http://www.store.honeyvillegrain.com...p;Category=286 web site they have then in big cans and give ADBBers a discount for typing ADBB in the checkout code.

[Piasabird]

Last summer I rode for about 4 hours at a time and never needed to take any food. I'd do 40 miles while doing this WOE and I did fine with it. The only thing I really needed was plenty of water! My bike has 2 water bottle racks and I'd go through both of those and want more. I bought a water hydration system called a platypus that fits on my back like a small back pack and you drink through a tube. I even freeze half the water so that it stays fairly cool.

Happy riding! :wave

[Labarum]

MMM

I have been reading around the cycling sites.

This one

http://www.cobr.co.uk/e-cobr_information/t_and_r_section/sections/nutrition/Post%20ride%20recovery%20and%20the%20training%20programme.htm

describes "the bonk" as extreme fatigue resulting from glycogen depletion :

A cyclist can experience 4 distinct types of fatigue.

* The bonk (fatigue resulting from muscle glycogen depletion) usually develops 1 to 2 hours into a ride. It is a particular problem if "on the bike" glucose supplements are not used to extend internal muscle glycogen stores.
* Post ride fatigue is a normal response to several hours of vigorous exercise and indicates you are pushing your training limits. It leads to improved performance the next time out.
* Overreaching is the next step up - the fatigue you feel at the end of a particularly hard week of riding. It is really just an extension of post ride fatigue, and will, with recovery, make us faster and stronger.
* Overtraining is the debilitating and often long term (lasting weeks to months) fatigue that limits rather than stimulates improvement in performance.

Now Richt and the other Brits on this forum probably think of "bonking" as another energentic activity! Be that as it may, if you explore the navigation sidebar of the above link you will find pages that go on at great length about the importance of the correct intake of carbohydrates.

This site also says "the bonk" is a particularly pressing problem for cyclists - I see at modest speeds fuel consumption can be 500 Kcals per hour, rising to over 1000 Kcals per hour for top cyclists (not me!)

I quote from this page

http://www.cobr.co.uk/e-cobr_information/t_and_r_section/sections/nutrition/Main%20energy%20sources.htm

Although carbohydrates supply the majority of the energy for muscles during vigorous activity, fats can be a major contributor for less strenuous activities. Carbohydrate is stored as glycogen in muscle and liver cells. On a normal diet there is enough glycogen to support 2 hours of aerobic exercise before the bonk occurs. These internal stores can be extended by using oral carbohydrate supplements for events expected to last more than 2 hours. It is best to begin the carbohydrates at the start of the event as they are much less effective after the bonk has occurred.

end quote.

And see here

http://www.cyclingforums.com/t46239-15-1.html

I know 2big and Richt have already had their say, but is there anything equally technical and detailed written about endurance on a low carb diet?

[2big4mysize]

seems they didn't give you any info on the fact that you get more energy carbon for carbon ( body energy unit is ATP) from the beta oxidation of fatty acids then from carbohydrates or that your end stage fatty acid fuels runs through that same carbohydrate enegery cycle at the 2 carbon stage either or that the liver can make sugar from fats too and uses less bady energy to creat it them from the spent carbohydrates or the proteins, nor that the spent faty acids can be redirected to ketones and be also burnt for fule in other body areas too like the heart.
We on Atkins have stored fatty acids in our muscles too fro faster energy usage too and grown more mitochondria for burning those fats too as a result of our training while eating Atkins. Those bike site write ups are for folk who are normally eating high carb diets.

you can find some cycling studies Dr Atkins had posted in the archives of the Atkins.com site that show that eating Atkins ketogenic type diet actually improved cycling endurance for bikers.

Happy low carbing.

[Kent]

I have gone on 3-4 hour rides (nothing strenous, just semi-hilly 10-15 mph ride), and I would concur with all you need is liquids argument. This slow release of carb information always holds true if your body is not use to consuming fat for fuel. The normal human (as opposed to us ketogenic superhumans) once their glycogen reserves and whatever complex carbs they loaded upon run out have to figure out how to do what we do all the time, burn fat primarily for fuel. The problem with that is their bodies are relatively newbies at it for long periods of time. I can only comment that I have never bonked or collapsed in my rides 20+ mile rides, but neither have I completed a 60+ mile ride yet. Just my thoughts...

[Piasabird]

Labarum, the only way to find out if you'll "bonk" is to get on your bike and ride. I'm willing to bet that you'll do just fine.

Happy riding!

[ttdriver]

I'm not a biker, but this weekend, I thought I'd put the "bonk" theory to the test and run over 10 miles on 2 eggs, 2 strips of bacon and 2 link sausages and some carb countdown choc milk. Well, low and behold, I finished it, feeling great!! No bonk...........carb loading is a myth!
I ran for 2 hours and 30 minutes, nonstop and never once felt like I was weak or struggling. I could have gone another 2-3 miles I think! And that was in 80 degree Florida heat and humidity.

Betty

[Labarum]

I was just looking for the science. What I read on running out of carbs made no sense.

What about the Eskimo? British Army Arctic field rations are up in the 4 or 5000 Kcals per day range - so that must be estimated daily needs for high activity levels in those conditions. Eskimos seem to be able to run with their dogs for hours a day on fat and protein - they have no sourse of carbohydrate in their traditional lifestyle.

I now understand what Bowulf said - those used to running on carbs can't switch fuel tanks in a hurry, but those of us already running on fat have much bigger reserves.

I will look for the Atkins articles, but if anyone can reference them easily, please link them to this thread.

[Labarum]

Found this interesting thread on this subject

http://www.cyclingforums.com/t131067-low-carb-diet-and-cycling.html

[2big4mysize]

you can search our site too for the discussion of how fats are used for fuels better for endurance events then carbs and how the fats are broken down.. I did find it interesting that fellow said fats couldn't be made into glucogen but then said exces carbs are converted to fats and then used later what does he think the carbs are burned as when the fat storage unit is broken down Fats are one carbohydrate molecule known as glycerol and 3 fatty acids of different lenghts bepending on the type of fat it is. the glycerol goes to the liver and glucogenesis just like the proteins and lactate carb by products so part of the fat does get burned for fuel as glucogen at the 6 carbob stage and can even be restored as glycogenin a muscle. our bodies are amazing.

On the Atkins site there are in th4e archives reveral studies on how fats fuel us better for endurance events which is what long bike rides are. on our site if you wade through the refeed topic in the memorable posts all the steps for fat metabolism and carbohydrate metabolism are discussed too.

SO are you riding this weekend with some Atkins OWL foods in your pocket?

[Labarum]

So are you riding this weekend with some Atkins OWL foods in your pocket?

I will have a go at 20 miles today. 15 took me 70 mins yesterday. I should not beed refueling in that time, but will have lots of water and a few goodies just in case.