Discouraged, but committed

**nancyadams** · March 17, 2009, 05:28 PM

Re: Discouraged, but committed

Hi. Part of the reason you're not getting the same results is that you are on a lousy thyroid medication. That medication leaves nearly everyone with lingering symptoms of hypothyroid. I am the perfect example. I had a TERRIBLE time losing weight. I finally found the thyroid patient website Stop the Thyroid Madness. Wow. That website taught me why I still had problems on my meds (Synthroid, Levoxyl, Levothyroxine, etc) and how much better dessicated thyroid is (Armour etc.) It also teaches out about other issues that we with hypo need to correct. Go look at it: Stop the Thyroid Madness - The truth about thyroid and thyroid treatment Because of learning from that website (and the book, which I love) I switched to Armour and I am now able to lose weight, and I feel a heck of a lot better, too. This page is great: Things We Have Learned | Stop The Thyroid Madness

**HappyCat** · March 18, 2009, 05:56 AM

Re: Discouraged, but committed

Thank you Nancy!

I am not only new to Atkins, but also new to this thyroid thing too.

I will definitely read everything at the Stop the Thyroid Madness site today. I can't help but wonder if changing to Armour may FINALLY get my weighloss kicked off.

THANK YOU!!!!

**GCC** · March 18, 2009, 06:08 PM

Re: Discouraged, but committed

Sorry you are feeling so bad.

You are still very under-medicated! Thats WHY you are not losing wt.!

Optimal TSH is a LOW number, around 1.0
Increasing the Synthoid dose will lower the TSH.

They should increase your Synthoid dose until your TSH is low, around 1.0

After every Synthroid dose increase , you need your test re-done after about 6 weeks (to see if the dose needs to be increased more or not).

Please do NOT settle for a higher TSH level.

Its very important that you have the blood drawn *early morning*.
The TSH test is skewed if they draw the blood later in the day. Don't expect the doctor or the lab people to know this.

Are they testing your FREE T4 & FREE T3?'
They should !!

I would insist that they test both of those too. If it doesn't say the word 'free' then its not the right test.

Optimal for both of the Free T's is the middle to UPPER part of the 'normal range', NOT the lower part. You need to get copies of the lab reports to figure this out.

Even after the TSH is down to around 1.0 the FREE T3 can still be too low (since you are on a T4 only med).

Your body can convert T4 into T3, but you need to have it tested to make sure it is enough.

The mineral selenium in adequate amounts is necessary for the conversion of T4 into T3 (in your body).
So make sure your daily vit contains the mineral selenium.

Always ask for copies of all your lab reports. By law they must give you copies if your request them!

Good luck.

**HappyCat** · March 19, 2009, 08:30 AM

Re: Discouraged, but committed

Thank you very much for that, GCC! I have scheduled an appt with an endocrinologist (his first available appt is May 1, but still, that's something), and I called my GP to make sure that the scrip he is writing for my bloodwork next week adds the free T-3 and free T-4 testing to it.

I didn't understand any of this until you all directed me in the correct direction! I can't tell you what a difference it has made in the way I feel about WHY I may not be losing weight and why I am feeling like I am constantly going uphill despite really trying hard to follow the plan and get my butt moving. It's the summoning the energy to get to the gym that is the hardest part for me lately, but perhaps this is thyroid-related. Nevertheless, I will go. I am so fortunate that my husband is an awesome motivator as well - always encouraging and supportive and never judgemental. I am a lucky girl!

Are there any additional suggestions on what and how I should proceed with the diet or testing? Do you find that you require more water intake than most to lose? I had read that somewhere, but I have no idea if that is valid or not.

**GCC** · March 19, 2009, 10:14 AM

Re: Discouraged, but committed

You're welcome.
Make sure the T's are labeled 'free'.
If it doesn't say 'free' then its not the right test.

**Organic-NoSoy-LC4Life** · March 19, 2009, 07:47 PM

Re: Discouraged, but committed

Happycat,

Oh my goodness yes, a TSH of 6.31 is interfering with your weight loss. For the life of me I don't understand why you are on such a low does of synthroid. That's criminal.
And yes, as the other ladies stated, synthroid is an awful drug that leaves most people drowning in symptoms even after the TSH gets into a "normal" range. Synthroid is a T4 drug, that's it. Armour gives you T4, T3, T2, T1 & Calcitonin, the same as what your thyroid whould produce on it's own if it wasn't having issues.

You should know before you go to that appointment that it is very rare to find an endocrinologist who will treat you correctly for hypothyroid. Do not be surprised if he refuses to prescribe Armour, if he tells you it's not a modern treatment, or even if he refuses to draw your FT3 & FT4 levels. Also please don't be surprised if he is condescending and blames the weight gain on you, not the thyroid problem.

Maybe you'll be lucky, but if you're not, please don't take it personally, and don't let it affect your commitment to a low carb lifestyle, or your desire to switch medications.
You just may need to find a different type of doctor to treat you -- perhaps a D.O. or a N.D.

If you're getting your blood drawn by your GP, you need to get him to run the two auto-immune tests. TPOAB & TgAB. This is in addition to getting your FT3 & FT4 numbers. You need to know if you're hypothyroid or if you have Hashimoto's Thyroidists, the auto-immune form of hypothyroidism. Knowing which kid you have will affect your treament decisions.

When you go get your blood drawn, do not take your synthroid that morning. Take them after your blood draw. This is so you can get a true representation of your numbers.

You also want you family doctor to test your iron levels, specifically your iron storage: the test is called Ferritin. You'd need that test in addition to your TIBC. Other people say you should also get your B12 checked as well. If your numbers for these two tests are low, it can affect how much of the medication actually gets into your cells... how much you can use.

That's a bunch to start with, I know but it's the info you need to truly treat your thyroid. The biggest bit of advice I can give you, and I've been dealign with this for over a decade, is that you MUST take charge of your own healthcare. You can't just sit back and hope that your doctor will fix you. You'll need the same will, grace and strength that you use to stay on Atkins to get yourself adequate care for your thyroid. You have to become your own patient advocate. Stop the Thyroid Maddness is a good place to start that journey.

To sum up:

Thyroid Tests:
TSH
FT3
FT4
TPO AB
TgAB

Other Tests
TIBC
Ferritin
B12

And ALWAYS get a copy of your bloodwork results when you leave your doctor's office. You'll need it when you get people to help you understand your results.

If you want to understand more about the tests in general, try this website.

Sorry this is long, I just get so frustrated and angry when I hear about people who are suffering, because their doctor's don't know how to help.

LC4Life

**HappyCat** · March 30, 2009, 02:27 PM

Re: Discouraged, but committed

THANK YOU! THANK YOU! THANK YOU!!

It is ONLY because I stumbled onto this forum, and met you wonderful people that I insisted on the lab work you suggested (ALL of it), and my doctor has just now determined that I have Hashimoto's Thyroidists.

I still am not even sure what this means, or how we will proceed (he is starting by bumping me up from .075 to .125 of Synthroid).

I would NOT have known about this, or that it even exists without you all, and I am so sincerely thankful.

Does anyone else have Hashimoto's Thyroidists? If so, how have you dealt with it? Will my weight loss routine have to differ to compensate, other than just sticking to Atkins as I have been doing?

You will never know just what a difference you may have just made in my life. I'd bake you all browinies, except they'd be really gross using pork rinds, cheddar cheese and sour cream.

XOXO
An eternally thankful Laura (aka Happy Cat)

**Organic-NoSoy-LC4Life** · March 31, 2009, 04:12 PM

Re: Discouraged, but committed

I have it. Hashimoto's is the same as Autoimmune Thyroiditis. It's an auto-immune disease. Autoimmune hypothyroid.

Everything I said in my previous post still applies, even more so now. Go to that website and read everything. Seriously.

Unlike regular hypothyroid, treating Hashi's is more like treating a moving target. Things can change all the time.

I can only tell you my own treatment plan. I refuse to be treated with Synthroid alone. While it did help initially, (I was diagnosed with a TSH around 10, about adecade ago) it didn't remove all my symptoms. I tried a combination of Synthroid & Cytomel, but eventually ended up on Armour Thyroid, which I still take today.

I spent many years rolling my dosage around trying to get a steady TSH. (Which is impossible with Hashimoto's.) Finally I found a doctor that allowed me to experiment with taking enough Armour to override my own thyroid. That works for me.

The advice I give anyone recently diagnosed is to get all the tests done that I mentioned in the last post.

If Ferritin and/or B12 come back low, work to raise them.
If your sodium comes back on the low end, try adding 1 tsp Celtic sea salt to a glass of water and drink it everyday.
When you take your thyroid pills, make sure you're not taking them at the same time you're taking iron or calcium. They should be separated by 2 hours.

If you do switch to Armour, make sure you get your Adrenals tested first. You can read more about that on the STTM website if you go that route.

Personally I feel it is extra important to take supplements when you have Hashi's.
I take a very high quality multi vitamin (w/ no iron) several times a day. I take Iron once a day, CoQ10, GLA, Omega 3's: EPA & DHA, a probiotic and high doses of Vit C. Plus other stuff prescribed to me by a nutritionist. Reading Dr. Atkins' Vita-Nutrient Solution really helped me understand what all the different supplements do.

For me a low-carb lifestyle is the only lifestyle that allows me to lose weight. Follow the book, make the lifestyle change, and it should work, once you're on enough thyroid medication.

Good luck.

**HappyCat** · April 9, 2009, 10:21 AM

Re: Discouraged, but committed

What an amazing help and mentor you (and the others) have been. I can't thank you enough.

The first thing I am realizing is that with Hashimoto's, I call my doc lately more than my best friends. This is so alien to me, and I am SO over feeling akward calling so much. I am really looking forward to the appointment I have scheduled with the endo.

I have ordered the book, and can't wait to read it. I have just purchased (and perhaps gotten really overcharged - but that is another story) a good multi-vitamin and an additional 250 Selenium. Perhaps I should wait to read the book before messing about with what I take?

Now that I am on .125 Synthroid for the last 2 weeks, I think I might feel worse than before - but that could be an adjustment period, I would suspect. My newest fun side-effect is this rash of small bumps that appears all over my arms, and itches when touched. It came about only a few days after the increase in dosage, and I was told by the doc that it was just some kind of contact thing and nothing to do with the Synthroid. They put me on prednisone for 5 days, gave me a prescription cream, and told me to take antihistimines. About 4 days later, the bumps did go away. Now, last night (two weeks later), they came back in spades - all over my arms. Faboo. I have a call into the doc to find out what the heck is going on. I will NOT take prednisone again - I think that is like trying to kill a mosquito with an atom bomb. But, I need to know if there is a relationship between this rash and the Syntrhoid, or Hashimito's itself.

Additionally, I seem to have abdominal cramps on my lower right side that come and go lately. Mostly, I feel like a slug and am still not losing weight at all.

I have been very good on the diet too. As for the gym - I am so wiped out when I get home from work I am finding it hard to get there.

We're going on our honeymoon next week, and I hate to think that I am going to still feel like I am in this bubble state and not really able to be present and enjoying it all like I normally would. Being in a bubble-like state in St. Maarten is still better than being in a bubble in Connecticut - but you know what I mean.

I am so frustrated!!!!!

**HappyCat** · April 17, 2009, 10:08 AM

Re: Discouraged, but committed

Quick update -
The Endo had a cancellation, so my first apointment is today, adn not a day too soon.

After teh doc dropped me back to 0.075 Synthroid, the side-effects seem to be better (with the exception of occasional itching and a very dry scalp). But, I have gained close to 8 lbs in the last 3 -4 days, and have been very good with the diet, water consumption, etc.

I am at my wit's end. We are leaving on our honeymoon tomorrow, and I hope that the endo can at least make me feel like I am going to be heading in the right direction.

**crystal4l** · April 24, 2009, 06:21 AM

Re: Discouraged, but committed

I feel your frustration! I had Hashimotos, and I had nodules throughout my thryroid. THey removed my thyroid and I am on Armour but can't lose weight! I lost 100lbs on Atkins 5 yrs ago, but after my second child my thyroid went haywire and now I can't lose to save my life.

**HappyCat** · April 27, 2009, 11:15 AM

Re: Discouraged, but committed

Sorry to take so long for an update - but it was just like others had told me it would be. The endo pretty much made me feel like the weight gain, even with Hashimoto's, is just because I sit around eating bon bons all day. I DON'T and NEVER HAVE. He also condescendingly asked me if I knew how many calories I have to burn to lose one pound. Um, dork, no, but I do know how to use the treadmill, what to avoid and not to overdo it with calories.

He agreed to bump me up to .88 Synthroid, and said that Armour, or adding Cytomel to the Synthroid is not the answer and an outdated method for hypothyroidism.

So, now I am worse off than before. And bummed. Looking for another endo, or at least one that can be more helpful and explain it to me. Honestly, all I know about this disorder is what you all have told me and pointed me to to do research.

Now - yet another issue. Since my husband and I were on our honeymoon last week, and I had this wonderful experience with the endo the day before, I decided to bail out on Atkins for a while. If I could keep gaining weight even though I was following induction to a T for eight months with no loss, I had to wonder if my body is also accumulating the fat in an unhealthy way as well until they get this thyroid issue figured out. I will try to go lo-cal for a while, and continue to try to get motivated to work out more and more. Eventually, I will probably return to a lo-carb diet.

BTW - as a scary side effect - my ankles have puffed up considerably and I am scared I have really screwed up my body from Atkins, introducing Synthroid, or both.

Not fun. I could use a bit of advice or help from anyone else who has been there.

**msm2009** · May 4, 2009, 07:55 PM

Re: Discouraged, but committed

I know how you feel!

My TSH was only 11 to start with (some people have a TSH of 50 or 100!) but when they put my on synthroid it took at least 8 MONTHS before i started feeling okay. I actually felt WORSE for that 8 months!

It sounds like you might be having an allergy to the synthroid. Ask your doctor if you can try a different kind. Like if you're on Synthroid, ask to try Levothyroxine which is the generic version. I've known people who have found relief from just switching brands.

**ErinB** · May 11, 2009, 04:34 PM

Re: Discouraged, but committed

I can certainly identify with your misery, HappyCat, but my experience tells me you are on the right track. You made the appointment which got you the diagnosis. You are being treated for the underactive thyroid. Please know, if you are compliant with doctor's orders, once the thyroid meds are leveled, you will feel good and you will be able to lose weight.

I was long time undiagnosed. It took a long time to gradually build up the dosage for my prescribed Levothoid, just another brand for the same medication you were prescribed.

You are receiving correct treatment. It is standard treatment to receive a small beginning dose, another test after a period of time, increased dose if indicated, rinse and repeat until the lab work shows your level is correct. In between it is very typical to feel worse, then a little better, then a new dose, then feel worse, then a little better, then a new dose ... In my case, even after my lab work showed a TSH under 1, it was another year before I felt really good. If you are younger than me and have not gone undiagnosed as long, you may heal more quickly. So, please be encouraged. While it is likely your lack of success with weight loss is very much caused by the underactive thyroid, this is not a life sentence.

My leveling process:
4 May 2006 -Dr. appointment
Edema noted, diurectic prescribed (I still take a small dose and probably will the rest of my life)
Labs done, including TSH

9 May 2006 -diagnosed hypothyroid, TSH 6.4, started Levothroid .05mg
24 June 2006 - started .075mg Levothroid prescription, TSH 3.7
9 Oct 2006 - TSH at 1.9
12 Oct 2006 - Doctor prescribed 100mcg Levothroid
17 Jan 2007 - TSH test came back 1.7
18 Jan 2007 - Started 125mcg Levothroid
1 May 2007 - TSH is 2.7, Dr. prescribed 150 mcg Levothroid
18 July 2007 - TSH is .53

At that point my doctor scheduled the next lab for a year later. It took me most of that year to regain my strength and recover from the multitude of hypo symptoms, perhaps because I was so long undiagnosed. A year later, July 2008, my TSH was around .3 something. Since I was having no hyper symptoms, the doctor left my dose alone. While I had kept myself from gaining during all that time, I had no real success with weight loss.

I did start to get serious about following a low carb plan about mid-June 2008 with some success, but real success didn't occur until I started exercise. It has gone like this:

June 15, 2008 - 269/269/135 (Started reduced carb, no exercise)
July 1, 2008 - 269/259/135
July 17, 2008 - 269/252/135
August 1, 2008 (20) - 269/249/135
September 11, 2008 - 269/241/135
September 22, 2008 - 269/240/135
September 23, 2008 - 269/239/135
September 25, 2008 - 269/238/135
October 14, 2008 - 269/235/135
October 25, 2008 - Into smaller size jeans finally! (20W)
November 21, 2008 - 269/234/135
November 23, 2008 - 269/232/135
November 29, 2008 - 269/231/135
December 6, 2008 - 269/230/135
December 21, 2008 - 269/229/135
January 3, 2009 - 269/227/135
January 10, 2009 - 269/226/135
January 17, 2009 - 269/226/135
January 18, 2009 - 269/226/135
January 25, 2009 - 269/225/135

Interlude where I wasn't really trying.

Bought a HealthRider (still not ready for the gym) and began working out about a half hour a day here.
February 24, 2009 - 269/227/135
February 27, 2009 - 269/225/135
March 1, 2009 - 269/224/135
March 8, 2009 - 269/223/135
March 22, 2009 - 269/222/135
March 28, 2009 - 269/221/135
April 3, 2009 - Smaller size jeans! (18W)
April 4, 2009 - 269/220/135
April 11, 2009 - 269/222/135

[Starting about April 14, 2009, I doubled my exercise time, three days a week include a 20-minute cardio session above 130 bpm, the rest in the 120-129 range. Five days a week, just try to stay in the 120-129 range with, every 10 minutes, a one-minute fast and hard as I can push, anaerobics trying to develop lung capacity. Every day best arms/legs resistance during warmup I can do with the Health Rider. I am 64, so my HR ranges are based on that.]

April 18, 2009 - 269/221/135
April 22, 2009 - 269/219/135 218.8 (New digital scale)
April 23, 2009 - 269/218/135 218.4
April 24, 2009 - 269/217/135 217.2
April 26, 2009 - 269/219/135 219.0
April 27, 2009 - 269/217/135 217.6
April 30, 2009 - 269/216/135 216.4
May 1, 2009 - 269/216/135 216.2
May 2, 2009 - 269/216/135 215.6
May 5, 2009 - 269/215/135 215.4
May 7, 2009 - 269/215/135 214.8
May 9, 2009 - 269/214/135 213.6
May 10, 2009 - 269/213/135 213.2
May 11, 2009 - 269/213/135 213.0

YMMV, of course, I did read posts by others about their experience in treatment for a hypothyroid condition, but I always took my medical advice from my own doctor ... the one who was examining me. I was fortunate to find one who listened to me, one who treated the person, not just the lab results, one I trust. If I did not trust him, I would find another doctor, but I wanted my trusted physician to prescribe for me. Even though there are a lot of really caring people posting on internet boards, I was not confident in taking even well intentioned medical advice from them, but that's just me.

My intention here is to offer you hope. My hope is that your treatment will happen faster than mine did and that you'll feel better/start losing weight more quickly than I did. However it goes, I'm here for you if you need support and I would say to you, "You can do this."

BTW, I eat broccoli, cauliflower and spinach regularly.

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Discouraged, but committed

Discouraged, but committed

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