365lb ~~ my quest to lose weight!

[Helena-in-England]

I started afresh because I HATE seeing the title Chocoholic Serial failure at the head of all my postings. It is depressing and pessimistic.

I am no longer a failure OR a chocoholic! I am on my way, friends, to a happier life.

I am a menopausal female of 51 and 5ft 3 and weigh 365 pounds, BMI 64. I am extremely carb sensitive and most of my life have been sugar addicted.

Even eating fruit sets off horrendous carb cravings which always lead to me eating chocolate.


I've been trying to lose weight on and off for 33 years, the past 9 years on various regimes (calorie counting, vegetarianism, listening to my body, exercise, and low fat. Found low carbing about 9 yrs ago and have done various like whole, organic foods, south beach, Atkins, etc. I've gained about 70lb trying to lowcarb.


5 weeks ago I gave up ALL sugar, grains, fruit, artificial sweeteners, diet sodas and went onto zero carb consisting mainly of meat (small amount of eggs, cheese, cream) and water. Appetite greatly reduced, VERY easy to keep to. Two meals a day, and fasting for 9 to 18 hours in between, I feel great and it has cleared up many health problems, from sleep apnoea to carpal tunnel. I was for 20 years a reactive hypoglycaemic but a meat diet has cured that. My fasting BS last week was 4.9 which is perfect.


My only problem is this: I have lost neither a pound in weight OR any inches. I take no meds and am in good health apart from the morbid obesity that my doc says will soon kill me. I do not know if I am insulin resistant or what on earth label anyone can put on me, my doc just parrots on and on that I am just lazy and greedy basically.


Although a sportswoman in my younger days (tennis, badminton, cycling) I am because of my horrific weight lately completely sedentary 23 hours a day and the only exercise I can do without pain is in the pool so I go for one hour every other day and do kicking, swimming, pilates, stretching, cycling etc. I also just started lifting 3kg weights at my desk. Swimming does NOT increase my appetite, in fact it seems to decrease it somewhat. I don't swim to lose weight but to keep fit.


For 4 weeks I was zero carb. On Fitday 75% fat, 24% protein and 1% carb (from cream).


The last 7 days I have included some carbs in my diet in the form of mushrooms, hummus, lettuce, broccoli and French beans. Now I am at 75% fat, 20% protein and 5% carbs.


I take no caffeine, drugs, alcohol, tobacco. I drink about 4 pts of water a day mostly with a herbal tea bag in it (fruit flavour).


1) Is my metabolism SO messed up that I will never lose weight?

2) Am I merely impatient and must give zero carb/ vvv lc more time?

Lastchance
(I hate that username now, so pessimistic!)

[Slingnmom]

Re: 365lb ~~ my quest to lose weight!

I'm hoping everyone who reads this will ask their doctor to do this test next time they get bloodwork. I'll try to explain why this is so important.

Most doctors monitor blood sugar. As long as that is normal, they pay no attention to the amount of insulin your body needs to produce in order to keep your blood sugar normal. They only care after your pancreas can no longer produce that much insulin. However, even if your body can naturally produce high levels of insulin to keep your blood sugar normal, there are bad side effects of having that high level of insulin.

High levels of Insulin makes your body crave carbohydrates. The feeling is intense, and no amount of telling yourself it is not real hunger will change the physical craving.

High levels of insulin also tell your metabolism to hang on to ever bit of food that you eat. It literally tells your body to make fat instead of using the food as energy.

So, if you are one of the people with higher than normal levels of insulin, your body is working against you two ways. To find out if you are one of these people, a relatively easy way to find out is getting your fasting insulin level tested. I'm not sure if this will catch all cases, but it is the simplest. I recommend getting checked for anyone who is struggling with hunger after VSG. People who have been diagnosed with PCOS, metabolic syndrome, and insulin resistance should also check. And if you are a type 2 diabetic who went off meds because your blood sugar was normal after surgery, you really need to get your level checked.

Once you get the level checked, you need a doctor who knows how to correctly interpret the result and medicate for it. When your doctor gets results from the lab, it comes with "normal" values that something like 95% of the population fall within. Unfortunately, 95% of the population includes both healthy and unhealthy people. So this range is almost useless. People with thyroid problems face the same issue. The normal range is not the healthy range.

"Lab normal" values for fasting insulin can be as high as 16 or more. However, to maintain a normal weight, this level should be lower than 10, and some progressive doctors recommend as low as 6.

Metformin can be used to lower insulin levels and blood sugar. Typically, doctors only use blood sugar levels to determine what dose of metformin to use. That resolves diabetes, but does not address the underlying problem. Many diabetics are taken off metformin after VSG because blood sugar is normal, but no one pays attention to the insulin level and the problems it causes.

Later, I'll post some links to some of the science behind this. I'll also post my experience of finally achieving a healthy insulin level. But I wanted to get this out there.

Also, please note that this will not solve all eating issues. However, it makes it much easier to make healthy choices.

Edit: I should tell you all that I have NO medical training. I do, however, have a body that's never been normal and have had treatments that have done more harm than good by doctors who made bad assumptions about my body. I've learned, the hard way, that I have to be as completely informed as possible about my conditions and possible treatments. Nobody has my best interest at heart as much as I do (unless you count the sweethearts here).
NORMALLY IN THE BODY:
INSULIN RESISTANCE


A good article about measuring insulin resistance

http://mediwire.skyscape.com/main/Default.aspx?P=Content&ArticleID=150157

This is from a website about hardening of the arteries that recommends lower fasting insulin levels.

http://www.full-health.com/partoneI.htm

This is from a progressive doctor recommending lower fasting insulin levels

http://www.mercola.com/nutritionplan/index2.htm

This is an anti-aging website talking about it

http://www.expert-anti-aging-advice.com/measuring-silent-inflammation.html

[NOWandTHIN]

Re: 365lb ~~ my quest to lose weight!

Good for you! Im rooting for you ;-)

[RitaCeleste]

Re: 365lb ~~ my quest to lose weight!

I think you may be at a stall stage, and if so there is nothing to do but wait it out. Keep trying with the added carbs as this can actually help. Check out some of the stall threads. Do a search and read threw the tip and see if you get some workable ideas. I remember one person had it in there sig that they made it threw a six month stall. Also check out the extreme metabolic resistance sections. Because you are in ketosis and not eating alot, I think it sounds more like a stall, just starting at day one. I am so glad you are feeling better on this Way Of Eating. To me, it sounds like you are doing things right. And don't give up on eating more things later on when you start loosing the weight. Like I said, I am now eating things I couldn't two years ago. But you have made a huge change in your diet, your body could just be trying to adjust to that. Sometimes people cut their calories too much and the body slams on the breaks and refuses to burn their fat and struggles to maintain every pound. Your first instinct is to think cut calories more, when your body is just gonna fight you until you eat a little more. Use fitday to see what your calories are and you could also compare them to a typical day before you started Atkins. Fitday also tells you what it should it take caloriewise to stay the same weight. If I were you, I'd take the number of calories it said my body needs and make sure I never was below 1000 less calories than that a day intake. I think it goes something like this, -3500cal equals a pound lost so even if you ate that many calories it would be theoreticly possible to loose two pounds in a week. Now theory and what actually happens are always two totally different things! Also I don't think the fitday numbers take into account excercise but they may and that could up your daily needs more. I feel like you stalled before your metabolic resistance could be measured and this isn't it. I don't think it will always be this way for you because you were able to get into ketosis so your body Can burn fat. Now its getting it to burn Your fat! Maybe it needs convincing it won't starve and then it'll let it go?

[Helena-in-England]

Re: 365lb ~~ my quest to lose weight!

Thanks Stephanie, Miss Anon and Rita.

I am VERY interested in getting my insulin level measured. In 33 yrs of trying to lose weight, no doctor (and I have had lots) has suggested such a thing. But then, why should they? As far as they are concerned, I am obese because I am lazy and greedy, have no self control. All they know about insulin is that its something they give to diabetics.

Rita I know that my basal metabolic rate is 2692 calories to maintain if I am sedentary and 3084 if I exercise a bit. By your reckoning I can eat 1700 cals on a non-swimming day and 2000 on a swimming day and be in deficit by 1000 calories a day. According to calorie theory I ought to lose 2lb a week that way (7,000 calorie deficit).

I will check out the threads as you suggest.

Can I change my username to something more positive?

[Helena-in-England]

Re: 365lb ~~ my quest to lose weight!

I am having my blood taken tomorrrow morning for cholesterol and triglycerides. Do you think I could ask the nurse to add insulin to the list of tests they do?

I absolutely do not want to take the fasting glucose tolerance test as it would take me about a week to recover and I cannot be ill for that long.

Now I am eating extremely low carb, surely I cannot have high insulin levels?

[Helena-in-England]

Re: 365lb ~~ my quest to lose weight!

PS things are very different in the UK. Under the NHS we are allocated a doctor and have no choice in who that person is. I never met one who has the first clue of how to treat obesity. They just parrot the same tired old nonsense about calories-in-calories-out.

After someone unqualified told me that I had all the symptoms of non-diabetic reactive hypoglycaemia, I told my doctor that and she said no such thing existed. The only kind of hypoglycaemia was that experienced by a diabetic who's overdosed on insulin.

She gave me a diet booklet (It is here on my desk) that tells me to eat big platefuls of pasta, big hunks of bread and jam, sweets and chocolates, potatoes and rice, but very little fat. The weight will just fall off me.

That just about sums up what British doctors know.

When I go for my blood test tomorrow I KNOW that the practice nurse who takes my blood yearly, will ask me whether I have been eating plenty of white pasta and keeping my fat intake down. I also know that if I tell her I am on an 80% fat diet she will probably have a heart attack. Do I want her death on my conscience?

Britain seems to have gone pasta mad. In newspapers and magazines I repeatedly see the phrase "healthy pasta". A woman in the swimming pool the other day was moaning to me that she cannot shift 20lb of excess weight, "even though I eat lots of healthy things like pasta". I looked her in the eye and asked her, what is remotely healthy about eating a plateful of white flour, which has been stripped of every nutrient? Her manner changed from friendly to cold and I doubt if she will ever speak to me again.

[mizski]

Re: 365lb ~~ my quest to lose weight!

Oh, LC, this post made my day! I did read your other post about your dietary changes but that was late last night and I had to get up and hit the road at 4 am today.

Anyways, on to your poundage move-age problem. First, hummus is OWL rung 6 beans food so I would put that aside for now. Another thing would be to eat more often...same amounts of food just every few hours. That has worked for me in keeping my metabolism stoked. (That's what it said anyways when I read about it. LOL)

I would continue to experiment with different veggies in small amounts to see how they affect you. I had a very stubborn metabolism and also have oxalate issues (I have IC) and found that I can have pretty much all the veggies listed just not in large amounts. So my meals look like mini-veg buffets with a couple TBS of this and that veg in addition to my protein. There is nothing anywhere written about that...it is just something I discovered about me on my own. For some of us it takes a lot of work and patience to figure out what works.

Getting those correct tests sounds like a very good idea. Thanks to Slingnmom for all that info and those great graphics.

I look forward to reading more posts from you. We'll try to help as best we can.

Can I change my username to something more positive?

Try sending a PM to Tom and if he can help.

[RitaCeleste]

Re: 365lb ~~ my quest to lose weight!

LOL! I vote to give that nurse a stroke! But I'm evil about stuff like that. Snacks are good and eating more often too like mitzi said. If you are going anyway you could try get them to do the insulin too, might as well. Around here a doctor has to order a test before they will do it. So it couldn't hurt to ask but they make you sign in blood to pay outofpocket for it.

[Keetje]

Re: 365lb ~~ my quest to lose weight!

Dear LastChance,

I know the feeling. I have a basal metabolic rate of about 1850 calories a day. If I eat less than that, I do not lose weight, but if I stay at my bmr, the pounds start to melt away. If you are eating less than BMR the body goes into starvation mode and as others rightly point out, hangs onto every single calorie and fat cell it can. I have started this Atkins twice over before now and both times I hit stalls very quickly. It was really dispiriting.

I did a bit of searching around and found Kent's Video on the issue of not losing. He talks about the effects of not getting enough calories at about 6.25 and dehydration at about 8.15. He goes into more detail about water in his Importance of Water video. I found these videos incredibly helpful.

Good luck with the blood tests!

Keetje


ps. Why am I starting for the third time? because I am DAFT!

[DarlingBri]

Re: 365lb ~~ my quest to lose weight!

PS things are very different in the UK. Under the NHS we are allocated a doctor and have no choice in who that person is.

This is not strictly true, just so you know.

You can ring any doctor in your catchment area and ask if they are taking new patients and you are 100% entitled to transfer in. Your local health service (and I fully understand that "service" is a bit of a stretch there at times) may be able to provide you with a list of doctors in your area and each practice can tell you if they can take you - ie if you are in their particular catchment - by your address.

Now, finding a good choice of doctor is going to be hard. Personal referral would be the best way but if you want to PM me your post code I will see if I know anyone practising in your area. Potentially there may be a clinic available to you as well, although obviously there would be a wait list. But waiting isn't so bad

[Helena-in-England]

Re: 365lb ~~ my quest to lose weight!

Thanks everyone. Keetje in the UK! Is that a Dutch name? I love your status. I feel like that, too! I just converted your kilos to stones so I can see how big you are. Gosh I would love to be 117kg - it's my dream. At that weight, I was still playing badminton. Now I cannot walk more than a few steps without stopping. Well done for losing 7kg.

I've watched all Kent's videos on youtube.

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Rita. In the UK we don't pay anything for medical services. But that has a bad side to it: it kind of makes us more passive and less assertive. When you pay hard cash for something, you feel in a position to demand what you want. But having a national health service, you forget you are paying via taxes, and when in the surgery everyone behaves as though they are "beggars who cannot be choosers" - like charity cases who ought to be grateful for the 5 mins of allotted doctor's or nurse's precious time. Plus they do not act like our servants, they are mostly very arrogant and treat you like you ought to be grateful that they have agreed to see you at all, since you aren't paying for it. (Evidently they, too, forget that we pay their wages out of our taxes!)

There is a parallel private system but as I am unemployed I cannot possibly afford to pay a week's income each time I want a test or a consulation. Being unemployed, I pay no tax, increasing the feeling that I am a charity case and not a "customer" at the surgery.

The attitude makes it very hard to start asking for this test and that test. Their attitude is, they will do whatever tests THEY think are appropriate. And these are frequently linked to pharmaceuticals. EG they test your blood sugar to see if they can put you on insulin. They test your blood pressure to see if you need blood pressure reducing tablets. Cholesterol they test to see if you need tablets for that. Same with thyroid. They weigh you only to see if they should put you on Orlistat or not!

It seems to me, if there is no tablet to cure the outcome of a test, they don't do the test.

All through my 33-year quest to lose weight, I have not received one single solitary piece of advice from any doctor, nutritionist, dietician, or endocrinologist that helped me in any way, shape or form.



Getting the input right is a nightmare, really. I've met women on the ZC board who are eating three big steaks a day each weighing about a pound and losing weight like anything! Other women cannot lose until they get their calories right down. So far nothing I have done has worked for me. Not in 33 years.

Depending on who I ask, the advice I'm currently receiving is this

- eat more
- eat less

- eat more frequently
- eat less frequently

- eat more carbs
- eat fewer carbs

- increase fat consumption
- decrease fat consumption

- eat fewer calories than your metabolic rate because "calories-in-calories-out"
- eat more calories than your metabolic rate or your body will go into famine mode

- do more exercise and lift weights or you won't lose weight
- do no exercise or you won't lose weight

They are all, of course, opposites. And so I am left with having to experiment on myself. Why does every dieter have to re-invent the wheel?

Yesterday I increased my carbs up to just about 20 (with veggies) and knocked myself out of ketosis! So I am dropping back today.

[Keetje]

Re: 365lb ~~ my quest to lose weight!

Hi LC,

The name is Dutch, but it's a nickname I managed to pick up from some Dutch friends. I was born here of Irish parents.

I can imagine how those pounds are weighing you down, must be such a bore. My weight does get in the way, but as a rule I am quite energetic and walk quite a lot and also ride my bike. I do have some mobility problems at time due to arthritis - once of the main reasons I am trying to get this weight down.

My cheery orange book (ie. Dr Atkins New Diet Revolution) becomes like my guidebook and general companion during times when I am trying to get the weight off.

What about some seated exercises - I found some fab chair yoga exercises on youtube, which I use when the arthritis is playing up. Perhaps a bit of movement will help to get those pounds moving. Keep up the swimming, that is wonderful exercise and will strengthen your muscles.

On metabolism - I thought I had the slowest metabolism on earth - but 2 weeks clean Atkins induction showed me that I had a medium metabolism. That was a pleasant excuse, but rather deprived me of my excuse for staying so big.

On re-inventing the wheel, please don't be irritated if I ask (am only trying to find out where you are now) but have you done a two week clean induction as per the book? Taking yourself through that and then weighing yourself at the end gives you some idea of your metabolic resistance. If you have done all the above, just ignore silly old Keetje yapping away.

Good luck - with the help of the people on this board, you will crack this - I promise.

Keetje

[RitaCeleste]

Re: 365lb ~~ my quest to lose weight!

Sorry about all that conflicting advice. Whew! You may be the one that needs to call the Atkins hotline. It sound like you have been stuck for quite awhile. It could be find ing what work for your body, or it could be a stall. But darn that's a long stall.

[Helena-in-England]

Re: 365lb ~~ my quest to lose weight!

Keetje - thanks for the link I will take a look. I have two 3kg weights on my desk here and am going to use them a few times a day.

I have indeed done a clean two-week induction a few times, never lost any weight, and so usually gave up, disillusioned and jealous to death that others lost 7lb a week or whatever. I have sometimes had an extended induction, but again sooner or later I either suffered from carb creep or gave up because I was on holiday or away from home or celebrating a birthday or something, then didn't bother to go back on the next day.

Also, a lot of times I had to eat out or be away from home overnight, got tempted and gave in because I was so weak-willed.

I used to find it very easy to fall of Atkins because of the bitter opposition to it from every quarter. It goes like this: away from home, or social situation. Tempted by something (say, potatoes, or pizza) try to resist, then an evil little voice says, "Atkins is bad for you anyway, everyone says so, even your doctor says eat potatoes and pasta and rice." And that became my "justification" for eating them. Next day, and back to sanity, I am in a whirlwind of carb-craving so fierce I cannot resist. "Well, I had some bread/potato/rice/pasta yesterday, so clearly I have abandoned Atkins, so I am not on a diet, and never can keep to a diet anyway, so I might as well just give up and accept that I am fat and always will be and I am out of control." Then I ate chocolate, cake, pizza, etc. Then I felt so disgusted with myself, and yet so utterly hopeless. I used to phone the Samaritans to confess how out of control I was and to share my despair.

I bit of carb always leads to more for me. I feel like someone who is trying to give up smoking: it won't work if I keep having "just one puff" a day. That one puff makes me want another and another till I have smoked the whole cigarette.

Since doing zero carb (or maybe I should say less than 5g carbs a day) I have never felt so in control of my eating. No, that's wrong. I don't feel as though I am "controlling" myself or my eating at all. I have no desire for anything other than meat, water and fruit infusion. I've been experimenting with a few carbs but I really can take them or leave them and as they have knocked me out of ketosis then I will leave them, thanks.

I've just ended a 21-hour fast by eating a 6oz sirloin steak with plenty of fat and butter and two pints of water.

Today I walked a mile, mostly uphill, and then did swimming, stretches, kicks etc for 90 minutes.