Newbie here with questions

[Zaz]

Okay, I'm very new here.. My name is Nick (22/m) and I started Atkins on the 4th of July.

Everything has been going well and I feel as if I don't need the carbs as much as I thought before I started, which is a great thing. I plan on staying on induction for awhile, atleast a month or two months.

Although, today, I talked to an old friend of mine who tried Atkins for a year (is now off of it and doing gastic bypass surgery soon), lost 55lbs, and had some very VERY bad things to say about it. I thought that I would mention them here to see what everyone had to say, since everyone is so informative. He pretty much brought me down and made me think 'do I really want to do this?'. So, I thought I would vent a little.

This was in a conversation on AOL Instant Messenger so it's tidbits of things that he said to me:

"what the atkins thing doesn't tell you is that you can't eat carbs again.. EVER aero soulgraphix -- because you'll slowly gain back the weight you lost
PLUS some"

"because when you gain back the weight you lost.. and eventually, you will"

"believe me dude, you'll gain it back-- it happens to everyone who does atkins"

"obesity is a disease that can't be remedied by cutting out on a certain food
-- it's a disease that can be cured though"

"but where atkins is concerned, the failure rate is higher than the divorce rate of couples in the united states -- that's like 60%"

"i was blockheaded about it myself when i first did it and i was like 'yeah im doing this for life'.. then you do it and it starts working and you're like 'whoo told ya'.. but then buying all the carb-free crap starts taking a hit on your wallet.. you have to look at the special page of the menu. .after a while you get tired of eating special food.. and you think to yourself, if i just cut out the carbs and watch what i eat, how is it different than atkins... and you keep working out.. and slowly the weight creeps back in, plus some"

ME: well, how would you gain it back if you're watching the carbs? -- thats what im not understanding

HIM: "i can't explain it, it just happens, happened to me, happened to jen,
happened to my mom"

"atkins teaches you that carbs are the enemy and you can indulge in whatever you want and melt the fat away because you're speeding your metabolism up.. and that you'll never have a need to count calories again--WRONG AGAIN.. fat is fat is fat.....even if you work out twice daily, as soon as you plateau you'll start seeing weight slowly creep on...and before you know it you'll have gained more than you lost"

"Atkins himself said that prolonged calorie deprivation leads to metabolic slowdown...atkins himself saying this... cutting out carbs = caloric deprivation--- ketosis isn't necessarily a good thing dude.. atkins teaches you that ketone bodies in your urine are a good thing..you're messing with your own glucose levels-- if you raise your blood glucose levels and raise the pH of your blood you are ******* with the chemistry of your blood..
let's say you might be borderline type II diabetic.. your pancreas is not functioning the way it should be-- just think of the stress it undergoes now to maintain these weird blood glucose levels you're now putting your body through"

I hope to hear some very interesting feedback from you guys (and gals) on this. Again, after hearing this AND many other comments, it really put me down.

Sorry for it being so long for my first post!

[Momof3greatgirls]

Re: Newbie here with questions

Well,
I think he did not go thru OWL, find his CCL or any of the other things Dr. Atkins teaches. You need to finish a clean induction. Then if you choose to go to OWL, you may add carbs to find your ccl, then work up the rungs. Will you be able to pig out on Chocolate bars, and bubblegum bread no, will you be able to enjoy a few pieces of dark chocolate, whole grain bread, and a glass of wine, yeah, if you do it right. You cannot go back to your old eating habits.
Dr. Atkins does not say calories do not count, and he does not encourage us to gorge on high fat foods, with out paying attention to what we are eating.
Ketosis is not unhealthy. It is what happens when your body burn fat for food. You can tell your friend that he will be in ketosis after gastric bypass surgery. I have a friend who had it done a year ago. Lost 100 pounds, did not exercise a bit, is still eating the wrong way, and look terrible. If she had done as her Dr. instructed, she would be eating protein first, then after she had that, she could have some veggies, then fruits if she wished. You are not trying to maintain "weird blood glucose levels" you are maintaining a steady insulin and blood sugar level.

Ketoacidosis, is a condition that uncontrolled diabetes produces. It is extremely dangerous. But that is not what happens on Atkins.
Your friend sounds like he went as far as induction, went off, gained weight then blamed Atkins. Did he even read the book?

Amy

[ValidRouge]

Re: Newbie here with questions

I'll try to address each of these things for you. But an even better way to deal with your friend is to read the book. He obviously has NOT--even though he said he "did Atkins"! There are lots of people who say they are doing "Atkins" but they are definitely NOT. With or without naysayers around you, in order to be successful at this plan, you should know right from Dr. Atkins himself how to do it instead of your friend's brother's sister's mother's mechanic's aunt Right???

Although, today, I talked to an old friend of mine who tried Atkins for a year (is now off of it and doing gastic bypass surgery soon), lost 55lbs, and had some very VERY bad things to say about it. I thought that I would mention them here to see what everyone had to say, since everyone is so informative. He pretty much brought me down and made me think 'do I really want to do this?'. So, I thought I would vent a little.

This was in a conversation on AOL Instant Messenger so it's tidbits of things that he said to me:!

"what the atkins thing doesn't tell you is that you can't eat carbs again.. EVER aero soulgraphix -- because you'll slowly gain back the weight you lost
PLUS some"
On Atkins we never cut out all carbs. NEVER. During induction you eat up to 20 grams of carbohydrate per day, the majority of them coming from vegetables. That is 3 cups of vegetables PER DAY and they are a requirement of the plan. Non-negotiable. That's considered 6 servings of vegetables as most portion sizes according to the USDA is 1/2 cup servings.

"because when you gain back the weight you lost.. and eventually, you will"
It doesn't matter what plan you chose to follow--Atkins, Weight Watchers, Gastric Bypass, Cabbage soup diet, ****, the twinkie diet...when you return to eating the way that got you fat in the first place, you'll get fat again.

"believe me dude, you'll gain it back-- it happens to everyone who does atkins"
No, it doesn't. There are plenty of people on this site who have gotten to goal and maintained for YEARS. They learned how to do it for life by following all 4 phases of the plan and learned how to maintain it.

"obesity is a disease that can't be remedied by cutting out on a certain food
-- it's a disease that can be cured though"
By what? Gastric bypass? I just saw a special the other day on Discovery Health about people who had gastric bypass, lost weight and continued eating the way they did before and ended up gaining it all back too. Stretching their stomach again and never learning how to eat for the rest of their lives.

"but where atkins is concerned, the failure rate is higher than the divorce rate of couples in the united states -- that's like 60%"
Which scientific study? Ask him for the name of the study and where we can look this up for confirmation.

"i was blockheaded about it myself when i first did it and i was like 'yeah im doing this for life'.. then you do it and it starts working and you're like 'whoo told ya'.. but then buying all the carb-free crap starts taking a hit on your wallet.. you have to look at the special page of the menu. .after a while you get tired of eating special food.. and you think to yourself, if i just cut out the carbs and watch what i eat, how is it different than atkins... and you keep working out.. and slowly the weight creeps back in, plus some"
I haven't purchased one single low carb shake, bar, candy, etc. I did purchase low carb yogurt and low carb ketchup. The rest, fresh meat and produce. I spend less on groceries now than I did before buying all kinds of crap food. I don't ever feel deprived...ever. I make it a point to make my food better than what everyone eating the carbage is eating.
Once again, when you start eating the foods that made you fat to begin with and stop exercising, you are GOING to put weight back on. Low carb, low fat, low calorie, no matter what!

ME: well, how would you gain it back if you're watching the carbs? -- thats what im not understanding

HIM: "i can't explain it, it just happens, happened to me, happened to jen,
happened to my mom"
Sounds to me like since he, jen and his mom were unsuccessful because they probably didn't follow the plan the way it was intended. And if you are not doing what Dr. A says, then you are doing your own version of something and NOT Atkins. They also would have a little egg on their face if you do it right and are successful where they were not.
"atkins teaches you that carbs are the enemy and you can indulge in whatever you want and melt the fat away because you're speeding your metabolism up.. and that you'll never have a need to count calories again--WRONG AGAIN.. fat is fat is fat.....even if you work out twice daily, as soon as you plateau you'll start seeing weight slowly creep on...and before you know it you'll have gained more than you lost"
Dr. Atkins never says that all carbs are the enemy. Sugar and refined carbohydrates (flour, junk food) are the enemy, healthy fats, proteins, and YES Carbohydrates are what you will learn to eat. There are plenty of people here who stick through their plateaus and continue to stick to plan and eventually they start losing again....as long as they stick to the plan. Also, following the 2nd phase of the plan, you add foods back in this order: MORE vegetables, dairy, nuts, berries/melons, legumes, fruit other than berries, starchy vegetables, and whole grains.

"Atkins himself said that prolonged calorie deprivation leads to metabolic slowdown...atkins himself saying this... cutting out carbs = caloric deprivation--- ketosis isn't necessarily a good thing dude.. atkins teaches you that ketone bodies in your urine are a good thing..you're messing with your own glucose levels-- if you raise your blood glucose levels and raise the pH of your blood you are ******* with the chemistry of your blood..
let's say you might be borderline type II diabetic.. your pancreas is not functioning the way it should be-- just think of the stress it undergoes now to maintain these weird blood glucose levels you're now putting your body through"
Umm, no. Most Atkineers can eat at HIGHER caloric rates and still lose weight because of metabolic advantage of Atkins. Atkins LOWERS glucose levels in the blood. There are plenty of folks on this board who are type ii diabetic and are doing much, much better. Check out the diabetic forum. Also, hopefully 2big4mysize will be around to offer some of her infinite wisdom regarding the chemical changes that happen during ketosis. Don't confuse ketosis/lipolysis with ketoacidosis. It is NOT the same thing.

[Zaz]

Re: Newbie here with questions

Mom and Valid-

Thanks for some great quotes AND inspiration. He claims that has all 3 books and even an Atkins cookbook. Like I said, every time I tried to 'argue' his point he kept lashing back, as the quotes in my original post clearly show it.

Now that I've read both of your posts, I feel so much better. I wasn't going to let his comments completely drag me down to stop Atkins, but I did want to let the experts (at this site) know what this guy was feeding me and what ya'll had to say about it.

I'm on my 5th day of my Induction and I'm loving it. I feel so dedicated to this as an entire new lifestyle, feel that I have more energy, and feel that I have more control THAN EVER over my life and my eating habits. I can't wait to grow with all of the members here.

Thanks again for the comments and support!

BTW: Is it okay to do Induction for 1 month, 2 months, 3 months? I would really like to do it more than 2 weeks for sure. Atleast a month or two months.

BTW, I do have the book, although I haven't read the entire thing so far. My sister (who's been on it) has been guiding me through everything.

I really do not mind not having carbs now that I'm on Atkins. It's crazy, but I love it.

[bluerain324]

Re: Newbie here with questions

Your friend seems to be lashing out because he's upset that overall he failed. No one likes to fail- at anything. Seeing someone want to try something and have the possibility of being successful when they weren't can hit someone in the wrong place. Don't let other peoples snippiness get in your way. Gastric bypass isn't a solution, it's a temporary change. My mother is a dietician, has had a lapband, and still weighs 230 lbs because she never changed her eating habits and never exercised. If you want to succeed at something it takes hard work, discipline, dedication. Sure, you can't dive face first into a hot fugde cake sundae... but why would you want to? Being thinner and healthier is worth more (to me anyway) than any sugary carby processed food i've ever had. Keep up with the program and see if you don't benefit hugely from it. You've taken the first step, and it's a whole new world just waiting ahead of you.

[ValidRouge]

Re: Newbie here with questions

I totally agree with what BlueRain said there.

Really, read the book. Study the book. There is a very long post in the main forum where a bunch of people have read (or reread) the book together and had a discussion on it. When they had questions, they posted and discussed it. Very interesting stuff.

As far as staying on an extended induction, you can do that for as long as you are satisfied. I am an OWL advocate though. I really really think that to be successful for the long haul, you've got to go through the phases on OWL to teach yourself how to add foods back. Plus, when you do that, you get lots of variety of food to eat.

[Zaz]

Re: Newbie here with questions

Thanks for all the tips. . .

I agree with what Bluerain had to say as well. He was basically trying to feed me that gastic bypass surgery was the way to go and that he had tried everything (every kind of diet) and nothing worked. I'm pretty sure it was him, not the diet, that wasn't working correctly.

Once again, thank you for all your kind words. Between last night and this morning I have read chapters 8-14 so I'm pretty knowledgable on the subject now, hehe.

I plan on staying on Induction for atleast a month if not longer, then move on to OWL.

[2big4mysize]

Re: Newbie here with questions

Welcome to Atkins and to ADBB
Glad you decided to read part of the instruction manual. Please do yourself a favor and read the rest of it so you know the reasons behind the don't eat this or that.
we have had some gastric bypass members here one does Atkins with her surgery and one did Atkins after cause guess what you can over eat the gastric bypass too and get fat. Sorry your freind didn't build his house of Atkins foods carefully and skillfully so his house of Atkins didn't crash down around him.

If you need some ammo to answer his garbage feel free to use the following next time you chat.

As to the if you eat carbs obviously he didn't read his instruction manual DR ATKINS NEW DIET REVOLUTION cause he would have know just from chapter 11 he could have some carbs in the form of those yummy low glygemic veggies and from chapter 14 which you read last night you can see if your body based on your physical activities and genes can handle them you can have every type of unrefined nonsugared carb there is. OWL is what I call the great food experient with you being both the scientist studying the effects and the lab rat experiencing those effects of food groups and individual foods on your blood sugar, craving control and metabolism. Many of us have issues with different food groups and/or individual foods within the groups so plan to spend a lot of time in there doing the framing of your House of Atkins testing those timbers so your house of Atkins doesn't come crashing down around you at goal like his did.

Also ask him if he did Atkins and discovered his CCLM why would he knowing his body was limited to that amount of carbs ever go over it and gain weight? Ask him what his CCLM was that should give you a clue as to how he was doing his Atkins. Then ask him how much his CCLM went up doing that mandatory exercise part of Atkins.



Finally counter his pancreous idiotic statment by saying the pancreous regulates blood sugar levels therough insulin release and when blood sugar levels are stable as with Atkins eating they do much better which is why type 2 diabetics are advised to eat lower carb. The human body releases a different chemical to metabolize fats and every human makes this switch during the nightr after the sugars from the eatten foods are used up.

Lastly tell him yes as he became a smaller person he needed to eat less because his body used less energy to move him around and if he was following Dr Atkins instructions and only feeding his hunger his body would have told him it didn't need those large portions which caused him to gain.



That should make him think hard about his junk science.

Happy low carbing

[ValidRouge]

Re: Newbie here with questions

I love it when she comes in and quashes the anti-Atkins mantra with the scientific facts!

Good for you for reading, all the scientific explanation you need is right there in the book. At any given day when someone starts in on what I eat, I tell them and then ask them how many servings of fruits and vegetables did THEY eat that day??

[Zaz]

Re: Newbie here with questions

Haha, thanks for all the information. I don't know this guy personally, only through online chatting for YEARS. He was really getting pissed at the fact that I kept backing up Atkins and he wanted to seriously tell me to f- off and never speak to me again because of that one conversation (lol). I couldn't believe he would do that in that he's always been really cool with and helpful to me.

I guess he was just pissed that he failed and now that he has to fork out a crapload of money for Gastric Bypass, and hope that his 'PROVEN' method works.

THANKS again!

[Tired of Chub]

Re: Newbie here with questions

Zaz, great for you for getting the whole truth. every story has two sides. I hope your journey is filled with fun and awesome foods!

[higgies]

Re: Newbie here with questions

I've never eaten healthier than I do now! How can fresh whole foods be bad for you?! I eat veggies, protein, etc. My cholesterol is down big time and I feel great! Remember, this is a way of life, not a diet. Work the program as the Doctor lays out and you'll find success.

Also, I did induction pretty much for the first 6 months...then I did most of the rungs of OWL. I still eat pretty close to induction but have added foods from the OWL rungs I know don't hurt me.

[boonie stomper]

Re: Newbie here with questions

Trust your friends here, Zaz. There's a whole lot to be said for the positive evidence right here that a proper understanding of and dedication to staying on the program as Atkins laid it out for us in the 2002 edition.

Unfortunately there has in the past been much controversy, along with misinformation about what it means to "do Atkins". Ill-informed have associated the concept with eating unlimited, huge quantities of meat & fat alone without carbs for long periods of time. This is definately wrong! That would certainly lead to health consequences, dietary weight-loss failure (too much protein is bad, plus can be converted to carbs & prevent weight loss), then boredom, quitting the wrongly carried out diet, followed by poor eating habits that put the pounds right back on.

For those who think doing Atkins is the equivalent of a starvation diet, or protein sparing fast, this is the very low calorie diet which causes your metabolism to slow down as a means of self preservation, known as metabolic resistance. This can happen an proper Atkins Induction after you've lost a good portion of the amount you need to lose, because your apptetite remains suppressed and your calories stay low - especially if you don't eat all your veggies, with proper fat & protein proportions - which is why weight loss can pick up when switching to OWL.