Dr. Atkins' Induction Advice

[ShannonM]

Has anyone ever taken the doc's advice to up the number of carbs you're consuming if you feel really sick on Induction? (Like adding more portions of leafy greens, for example.) If not, why not?

I see everyone here talking about toughing out the induction flu and how it'll pass in a few days and I'll have all this energy afterwards. None of those things happened. Here was the sequence of events for me:

Day 1 - mild headaches from caffeine withdrawal & a little nausea
Day 2 - no headaches or nausea; woke up with a bit more energy
Days 3 through 6 - steadily worsening stomach blahs and lethargy; no accurate sense of whether what I felt was hunger or nausea (it felt like some unholy union of the two, and no matter what I ate or didn't eat, it WOULD NOT GO AWAY)
Evening of Day 6 - I get angry, start wondering if it's really necessary to suffer like this when even the doc himself said that it wasn't, and quit induction

It's not like food temptation got the better of me; I made an informed decision to quit based on the fact that I continually felt like crap with no letup in sight. So does anyone ever up the good carbs on induction to keep these symptoms at bay? Strictly speaking, that method is just as much by the book* as the 20-carb-per-day rule. I really feel like I got tricked; the flu went away and then came back with a vengeance. I just wonder whether I really have to be sick to lose weight.

For those who will say, "If you'd just waited another __ day(s), you'd have felt GREAT!" I can only answer, "Maybe, assuming the best-case scenario. But even if that had happened, were the six prior days of suffering absolutely crucial to my weight loss, or could they have been avoided with no detriment to weight loss whatsoever?"

(By the way, this post reflects honest struggle with these issues. It's not my attempt to seek license to gorge on sweets (sugary or artificial). Sweets in all forms are the devil to me, and I'd really like to give this thing another try so I can kill the sweet tooth because seriously, you guys were so right about that.)

*And yes, by the book I mean DANDR 2002. No, I don't have the page number handy.

[julirama723]

Re: Dr. Atkins' Induction Advice

Well I know the 20 carb limit is so your body can get into ketosis. It's so your body can switch to a fat-burning machine, instead of burning glucose. Everyone differs about how induction flu hits them...for some it lasts days, for some it lasts weeks, and for some like me, it lasted about 6-8 hours. It just depends on your body, and how much sugar you have in your system.

I've read the book a couple times but I don't remember the part about upping carbs during induction...but then again, that's not surprising, because there's SO much info in there it's easy to miss things.

As for things to help you through induction flu--drink PLENTY of water, and I mean LOTS. Take a pain reliever for your headache. Rest, and don't push yourself to exercise--wait until you're feeling better to do anything strenuous. So are you quitting Atkins? Hate to say it, but yeah, I think if you stick with it, you will see results. A LOT of changes happen those first two weeks of induction, and you have to be patient...but that's easy for me to say, because I'm not the one who suffered. My advice is to stick with it, follow it by the book, and eventually you will start feeling better.

[not2late]

Re: Dr. Atkins' Induction Advice

I think you can up your carbs without adding an additional serving of lettuce, by eating the 1 cup of "other veggies" and by eating salad veggies other than lettuce.

[not2late]

Re: Dr. Atkins' Induction Advice

The other thing I have to add is that the vast majority of us do not need to eat at or below 20 net carbs daily in order to lose weight. Only the people who have a high metabolic resistance to weight loss need to do that. The folks who have average to low metabolic resistance and who choose to eat at Induction levels are only restricting themselves unnecessarily, imo.

[PizzaManNoMore]

Re: Dr. Atkins' Induction Advice

At the risk of being dishonorably discharged from the Atkins Army, I will confess here that when I started back on Atkins this time that I did not start with Induction. I began by gradually reducing my carb intake until I actually got to Induction. Sort of like starting out on OWL and regressing back towards Induction. It worked for me as I did not have a single craving or deal with the flu or low energy when I got to Induction.

I'm not advocating this approach as the best way to go or even a good way for anyone besides me; but I'm doing this as a lifelong change and not a diet. And while I was getting myself motivated to adopt this radical concept, I just sort of eased into low-carb. I am following DANDR now and will move back into OWL soon, my start was just unconventional. Some may even say that I was not even doing Atkins until I got to the Induction level. That's fine, I'm not hung up on labels.

Good luck in whatever you decide.

[boonie stomper]

Re: Dr. Atkins' Induction Advice

Ditto what not2late said - skip the lettuce- choose 2 cups (raw measure) of higher, more nutritious veggies from the salad veggie list, and have 1 cup (can be measured cooked) from the "other" veggie list. It is possible to get 20 net carbs just with that (note 'net' - you have to subtract grams of fiber from total carbs). If you still feel you need more, you can have up to 4 oz cheese, which adds some carbs, also 1/2 avocado, up to 20 olives, anda variety of seasonings, etc., all of which have some carbs, in addition to the 3 cups veggies.

Note also - a good many things you wouldn't expect to have carbs do indeed. For instance, go to www.fitday.com (free account) and enter things like eggs, oysters and liver.

Not all people go thru 'induction flu' - you are one of the luck ones if you transition to ketosis without any symptoms at all. (Sounds like you had a little, day 1&2).
BUT being on Atkins does not mean you are invulnerable to the normal germs and viruses, especially common this time of year. Perhaps you coincidentally caught a stomach bug on day 3. Or perhaps your menu simply needs tweaking, which if you post it here, we'd be happy to do. Perhaps you were constipated from insufficient fiber, for instance.

You should before starting Atkins, as per the book, visit your doctor and have some tests run. If you have a medical problem going into this, you may need to take a custom approach - for instance, pregnant people should only do the maintenance phase.

[MustLose80]

Re: Dr. Atkins' Induction Advice

This is very interessting...I was lucky and never had symptoms, but as PizzaManNoMore was eating low carb before he went to less than 20 carbs on induction....I also have eaten low carb for years. I am diabetic and that is how I have been lucky enough to stay off of medication...eating low carb. When I say low carb, I generally stayed within 50 carbs a day (any carbs).

[MaggieBE]

Re: Dr. Atkins' Induction Advice

You could also fit in half an avocado daily, plus the sour cream, lemon juice and olives, etc. That might up your carbs enough.

I have the paperback Atkins(with a red cover). On page 140 Atkins suggests taht if you are feeling really weak it means that the process is going too fast for their particular metabolism. He recommends drinking more water. He also advises to slow down the weight loss by perhaps adding another helping of veggies, or 1-2oz of nuts or seeds. He says that the body would adjust the second week but there isn't any good reason for feeling washed out and sickly for even one day.(those aren't the exact words but the main points) You find this part in the book in the "And Away You Go: The Induction Phase". It comes right after the part about the supplements under the title "Welcome Back: Your Old Friend Energy".

I have often wondered about this part in the book myself as it is never talked about here.

[not2late]

Re: Dr. Atkins' Induction Advice

For most people the Induction Flu lasts about 2 or 3 days. Dr. Atkins was addressing people like Shannon whose Flu is longer.

But again, it's possible to up your carb intake by picking the higher carb vegetables on the Induction Foods List (1 cup of pumpkin puree is about 10 net carbs) Too many people eat lettuce or spinach because they think the closer they eat to zero carbs the better it is for their weight loss. Unfortunately, that's not the case. Reading through the OWL Forum, you'll see that folks experience a weight loss whoosh, when they begin eating the net carbs appropriate for their bodies.

Not to mention all the other legal carb foods like eggs and cream are figured into the daily total. I mean, we have some people eating about 5 eggs per day, which adds up to roughly 5 net carbs.

So go through the veggie lists and figure out their net carbs per 1 cup. It's a good homework exercise for everyone to do that because that will be the only way to learn the net carbs of those vegetables. Yeah, it might be more 'convenient' if ADBB put up a sticky with all that information, but that's the lazy way to learn how to do Atkins.

[ShannonM]

Re: Dr. Atkins' Induction Advice

boonie stomper, I had the flu-like feelings on days 1, 3, 4, 5, and 6. It was not a stomach virus because it went away as soon as I started eating more carbs. (I should have eaten the good ones and stuck with the plan, but by that point I was so angry and ill that I didn't care.)

not2late, I understand about the net carbs. The problem I had was that even with counting only the net carbs and getting the veggie allotment, I was coming up with 21 or 22 carbs per day and only half of those were from veggies. I was really confused about this part of the diet. To keep from being hungry all the time, I had to eat a lot of stuff with eggs, cheese, tuna, etc., all of which had to be counted. How can I get the majority of my carbs from the veggies when every carb counts towards the 20? What I mean is, if I choose things from the veggie list that are higher in carbs, I will be overbudget because I'm still getting carbs from the protein sources I eat. And I have to eat those things, otherwise I feel hungry All. The. Time.

So I had a lot of trouble balancing the induction rules, but maybe it doesn't matter if I'm not planning to stick to the 20-carb limit anyway. I'm not opposed to what you're saying; I just don't understand how to do it while staying under 20 carbs/day.

Also, the only kind of lettuce I eat is romaine. Don't know if that makes a difference or not.

[not2late]

Re: Dr. Atkins' Induction Advice

not2late, I understand about the net carbs. The problem I had was that even with counting only the net carbs and getting the veggie allotment, I was coming up with 21 or 22 carbs per day and only half of those were from veggies. I was really confused about this part of the diet. To keep from being hungry all the time, I had to eat a lot of stuff with eggs, cheese, tuna, etc., all of which had to be counted. How can I get the majority of my carbs from the veggies when every carb counts towards the 20? What I mean is, if I choose things from the veggie list that are higher in carbs, I will be overbudget because I'm still getting carbs from the protein sources I eat. And I have to eat those things, otherwise I feel hungry All. The. Time.

So I had a lot of trouble balancing the induction rules, but maybe it doesn't matter if I'm not planning to stick to the 20-carb limit anyway. I'm not opposed to what you're saying; I just don't understand how to do it while staying under 20 carbs/day.

The majority of the daily carb intake should be veggie carbs. So let's say you eat a total of 10 net carbs daily. At least 6 of those carbs should be from veggies.

Here's a sample menu (all the carbs in the sample are net carbs):
Breakfast
2 egg omelette using 1 cup of mushrooms (2 egg carbs, 2 mushroom carbs)
1 oz cheddar cheese (1)

Lunch:
Tuna salad (0 tuna carbs, 2 tablespoons mayo (probably 1 net carb)
1/2 cup celery sticks ( 1 )
1/2 cup radish slices ( 1)
1/2 cup tomato slices ( 2.5)

Dinner:
Chicken breast (0 carbs)
1/2 cup spaghetti squash (4)
2 oz parmesan cheese (2)
2 tablespoon heavy cream (2)

Salad list veggies:
1 cup mushrooms (2 net carbs)
1/2 cup celery (1 net carb)
1/2 cup radish (1 net carb)
total salad list veggies: 4 net carbs

Other list veggies:
1/2 cup tomato (2.5 net carbs)
1/2 cup spaghetti squash (4 net carbs)
total other list veggies: 6.5 net carbs.

Total veggie net carbs: 10. 5

Non-veggie net carbs:
eggs (2 net carbs)
mayo (1 net carb)
cheddar cheese (1 net carb)
parmesan cheese (2 net carbs)
2 tablespoons heavy cream (2 net carbs)

Total non-veggie net carbs = 8

Total net carbs for entire day= 18.5

If we add half an avocado to the lunch, then the veggie carb breakdown would look like this:

Salad list veggies:
1 cup mushrooms (2 net carbs)
1/2 cup celery (1 net carb)
1/2 cup radish (1 net carb)
total salad list veggies: 4 net carbs

Other list veggies:
1/2 cup tomato (2.5 net carbs)
1/2 cup spaghetti squash (4 net carbs)
total other list veggies: 6.5 net carbs.

Special category foods list veggie:
1/2 avocado ( 0.3)

Total veggie net carbs: 10. 8

Most proteins (chicken, fish, beef, lamb, pork, turkey) do not contain carbs in their natural form. Organ meats and some shellfish do contain carbs. Processed proteins like luncheon meats typically do contain carbs.

Cheese is counted as 1 carb per ounce because Dr. Atkins said to count them that way.

Regarding feeling hungry between meals...
Have you input your menu into fitday.com? You might not be eating enough fat. It's the fat that staves off hunger.

Also you need to make sure this is hunger and not thirst. Sometimes we mistake thirst for hunger because the thirst and hunger centers in the brain are close to each other. So if you feel hungry soon after eating, you might want to drink a cup of water, wait about 30 minutes and see if you are still hungry.

The other thing is to read all the ingredients to the foods you eat, especially if you eat packaged foods like sausages, bacon, etc. They are notorious for containing added sugars and those sugars might be triggering cravings.

But again, Induction is only 14 days. On Day 15 you can move onto OWL, where the first thing you add is 5 net carbs of any Induction veggie (54 of them to choose from).