How Much Protein?

[Suechef]

There's much talk here about how excess protein gets turned to glucose, so I want to make sure I'm not eating too much of it. I went to a link from somewhere on this site which calculated how much protein I should eat during induction, and it was 149 grams; after induction it dropped to about 80 or so, I can't remember exactly.

Does this sound right?
Thanks,
Sue

[liv]

Re: How Much Protein?

Not sure about the exact number - I now that on induction we aim for the ratio 65% fat, 5% carbs, and 30% protein

[Suechef]

Re: How Much Protein?

Thanks Lily. I'd still like it if someone could chime in with some info on how much protein is too much - when does it start turning to glucose.

Thanks,
Sue

[not2late]

Re: How Much Protein?

The amount of protein remains as 30% percent of your daily caloric intake for all of your Atkins.

With that said, how much should you eat? If you look at the recipes in the back of the book, the meat servings is 4-6 ounces; egg servings is 1-2 whole eggs.

You also have to listen to your appetite. If one egg satisfies your hunger, that's all you should eat. If 1 chicken leg satisfies your hunger, that's all you should eat. Generally, as you grow smaller in size, you require less food to support your body's needs.

[Suechef]

Re: How Much Protein?

Thanks, I do understand those things, and that's how I'm eating - I'm just wondering if anyone knows of anything, maybe scientific studies, that actually gives numbers of when the "turning into glucose" thing really begins. I could probably google it.
cheers,
Sue

[not2late]

Re: How Much Protein?

That number depends on your body's needs. The RDI for protein for adults is 0.75-1 gram/kilogram body weight/day. So if you weigh 60 kg, then you need about 45-60 grams protein daily. Now you have to remember, meat has protein, but so do veggies and dairy. This is where I think the folks who think you need to eat alot of meat, goof up, because they eat "alot of meat" and eat the other Atkins foods like veggies, and dairy like cheese:

If you look at the USDA Nutrient Database ( http://www.nal.usda.gov/fnic/foodcomp/search/)

1 USDA Grade AA large egg has about 3 grams protein
roasted dark meat chicken has about 24 grams protein/100 grams
broccoli has about 3 grams protein/100 grams
spinach has about 3 grams protein/100 grams
cheddar cheese has about 25 grams protein/100 grams


But with that said, the RDI is a bit deceptive and you may possibly be able to eat more. The RDI is based on research done about 100 years ago on young Army recruits. It was the minimal amount of protein the body needs to have daily in order to avoid protein malnutrition.

[Suechef]

Re: How Much Protein?

There's a lot of info online, much of it conflicting. Sigh. I've been a lurker at the Protein Power website and that's been interesting. Maybe I'll email Dr. Eades, he of all people should know!

It doesn't matter, I'm eating about right for most of the recommendations that I've seen, so that's okay. I was just wondering if anyone really knew. Maybe no one has ever really studied it, though I guess they must have if they "know" that "too much protein" is converted to glucose.

Cheers,
Sue

[ShannonM]

Re: How Much Protein?

Have you tried Googling gluconeogenesis?

I didn't read through all the links but the answer you need may be in there somewhere. I didn't know this, but apparently the body can perform the same conversion process with fats too.

[TheDogAteMyName]

Re: How Much Protein?

I'm not sure how legit this is, as I found it from a Google search instead of from a study. Hopefully someone with more experience can chime in.

How to Calculate How Much Protein You Need for Optimum Weight Loss on a Low Carb Diet

This information is provided for people who have attempted to lose weight on a low carb diet only to stall out after the first couple weeks and find themselves unable to lose further weight.

If this is your situation, you may find success by cutting down your protein. This was first suggested in the book Dr. Bernstein's Diabetes Solution. The method for calculating your protein needs was suggested by Lyle McDonald's wonderfully researched book, The Ketogenic Diet.

Here's what you do:

Determine Calorie Level

First determine the calorie level that would sustain your current weight without gaining. You can use various web calculators to do this. A good one that takes into account age, gender, and height can be found at ExRx.Net

Example: for a 150 lb. sedentary middle aged lady 1850 calories is maintenance.

Because you want to keep from going into metabolic slowdown you need to aim for a calorie level that is close to 500 calories less than maintenance but not less than 80% of maintenance. If you are very heavy you can go to 1000 calories a day less than maintenance as long as this gives you a calorie level that is not less than 80% of maintenance.

Example: 1850 calories times .80 gives us a calorie level of 1480 for our middle aged lady.

Determine Carb Level

You'll have to find your level by trial and error but it should be under 50 gms a day to stay in ketosis.

Example: 30 gms a day is a typical level for the lady in our example.
Determine Protein Level
Protein to Repair your Muscles

Your basic daily requirement for protein can be calculated as .36 times your bodyweight in pounds.

If you are an athlete or vigorously active, you'll need more. Lyle suggests .54/lb - .63 for people in training for endurance sports.

Example: .36 * 150 lbs. gives a daily requirement of 54 gms for muscle repair for the lady in our example.

Protein to Supply the Brain with Carbs

At the start of a low carb diet your brain needs 100 gms of carbs a day to function. It will use protein to make up any carbs not supplied by stored glycogen or diet. After 3 weeks, however, the brain switches over to using ketones and its requirement for carbs drops to somewhere near 40.

Your dietary protein should supply whatever carbs don't come in through diet or else your body will happily cannibalize your own muscles for the extra protein it needs.

This protein is above and beyond the daily requirement used to repair the body.

To calculate how many gms of protein you need to supply your brain you take the amount of carbs your brain needs, which is 100 gm for the first three weeks of the diet and approximately 45 gms thereafter.

From this you subtract your dietary carbs. This leaves the number of grams of carbs that must be supplied by conversion from dietary protein.

Example: The lady in the example needs 45 gms. She's eating 30 gms of dietary carbs. Hence she needs an additional 15 gms of carb to be synthesized by the liver from dietary protein.

Since only 58% of protein converts to carbohydrate you can now calculate the protein needed to supply brain carbs by dividing these additional needed carbs by .58.

Example: 15 grams of carb needed /.58 = 25.9 gms of protein.

Add the repair protein to the carb-source protein to get your minimum protein needed.

Example: The lady in the example needs 54 gms plus 25.9 gms for a total of 79.9 gms.

Add in another ten to twenty grams for a margin of error.

Calculate how many calories come from protein and carb

Multiply the number of grams of protein by 4 to get calorie intake from protein.

Multiply the number of grams of carb by 4 to get calorie intake from carbs.

Add them together.

Example: 90 * 4 = 360 calories from protein. 30 * 4 = 120 calories from carbs. 480 calories total.

Add fat to get to your optimum calorie level

Subtract your carb and protein calories which you calculated above from your total calorie allowance. This gives you how many calories you need to get from fat.

Example: 1480 calories - 480 calories from carbs and protein = 1000 calories needed

Divide these calories by 9 to get how many grams of fat you need to eat.

Example: 1000 calories /9 calories per gram of fat = 111 gms of fat needed

Any protein beyond this amount will turn into one of two things: carbs or, if you are training very hard, muscle. Depending on how sensitive to carbs this additional carb may stall you.

Any fat beyond this amount will be burned for energy instead of dietary fat.

If you are physically active you can raise your level of all nutrients but be honest with yourself about your real activity level. Walking to the fridge does not count as physical activity!

Men and younger women can often raise their nutrients levels and still lose weight too.
Return to Jenny's Low Carb Facts and Figures Page

[TheDogAteMyName]

Re: How Much Protein?

Here is something else I've found:

.36 x bodyweight

So my ideal protein intake would be close to 71 grams. If that is the case then I am certainly turning protein into glucose due to the fact I average at least 90 grams. I work out pretty intensely as well.

[Suechef]

Re: How Much Protein?

This is what I got from one of experts on the Protein Power boards.

It depends. On a lot of things. Activity levels. Protein needs. LBM. exercise. metabolism. Etc. If you are eating 2.4g/lb of body weight, you are at the theoretical limit of useful protein. Beyond that, you're either not gonna digest anymore or it's going to convert to things you don't need. Either way, that's the theoretical limit. Under that limit, if you are eating until you are sated, not stuffed, you are probably not converting any protein to glucose that is going to be a problem to weight loss.

FWIW: there's a lot of worry given to this topic, but I've seen very few people actually stalled because they are blowing it with excessive insulin response to the products of gluconeogenesis. There's usually something else at play.