"One Golden Shot"

[not2late]

This is a good article from Low Carb Luxury.

http://www.lowcarbluxury.com/goldenshot.html

[Peterlock]

Megs,

A truly excellent article - it should be required reading by anyone on Atkins, regardless of their current phase and especially those on Induction.

Thanks for posting it.

Peter ha

[2big4mysize]

except oit isn't true and will scare the heck out of folk who cheat on their Atkins there is no science about golden shot and if you have read the history of Lara you know she is a long long time yoyo dieter so she has lost massive amounts of lean tissue with each loss of weight and added back more fat mass each time.

This is wha the premiss of the golden shot is you were say 45% fat the first time in your life you weighed 200 pounds then you lost down to say 135 and in doing do you lost lean body mass too then you sat on your butt and gained back up and lost again and a gain by the 6th or 7th try you are now at about 60% fat mass so you have a slower metsabolism and your results with each subsquent try will be less and less easy. it has nothing to do with the diet program and you being resistant to it!

Exercise with your Atkins build back your muscle mass which will speed up your metabolism and you to will be a fast loser on Atkins again all other things being equal. then there are just simple age changes in the body and you could be starting your first ever diet at 50 but you will be loseing slower then a virgin dieter does at 20 becuase of hormonal changes.

[not2late]

I see what you're saying 2Big, but I hope this will strike a cord with the yo-yo dieters here. We do have a faction of them present on ADBB who persistently jump on and off Atkins and wonder why they don't have the same results they had the first time the tried the diet out.

Granted it's a cautionary tale for those to whom it best applies, but it's something that I think we should keep in the back of our minds.

[2big4mysize]

I just don't want any one to say OH No I tried Atkins back in _________ and stopped so I've blown my Atkins chance better look at another plan I haven't tried. her info should be called dieting golden shot and say we have one goldenshot at easy weight loss in our lifetime and once we have taken it bno matter what diet we used we will have a harder time the next time if we just expect the weight ti jump off us, but IF WE WORK OUR CHOSEN PLAN NO MATTER WHAT PLAN IT IS WE CAN BE A WEIGHT LOSS SUCCESS AGAIN.

Happy Low carbing

[not2late]

Oh gee, I don't want anyone to think that either.

I just want to give some insight to folks who might be on their third or fourth go and are depressed because they aren't getting the same results they had the first or second time around. Dr. Atkins buries it waaaay in the final chapters of the book why you might not get the same results. But if people are resistant to reading Chapter 11, they're most likely resistant to reading Chapter 21.

[Peterlock]

2Big,

I would really have to disagree with you

She doesn't hide the fact that she has been a yo-yo dieter her entire life. But her point is well taken, especially if you understand addiction and understand that little is known about the dynmaics of addictive perosnalilities and the chemicals within the brain that seperate a person who can eat and drink in moderation from an addict,

Atkins isn't a diet as much in as it's a resotarive therapy to correct the damage done by addictions to sugars and carbs and prepare you body and spirit to break the chains of addiction and live free.

Any "diet" you do well on and take back up after having gained the weight back will present a very different experience than your first try. Why?

Because the body has an incredible memory - it remembers the experience and kicks in to prevent you from achieving the same results you did during the first go around. That's fairly common news to any dieter and any weightloss program.

But Atkins works on a different much more complex and deeper level - and if the article scared newbies? GREAT!

They'll be more inclined to make sure they make the best decisions the can and take the journey into the Atkins WOL with a much more serious and determined approach.

Based on my odyssey as a recovering alcoholic, narcotic addict and food addict I can tell you fear as well as pain are terrific motivators for change.

Peter

[2big4mysize]

and they will not read chapter 11 but they will read her article go figure
wonder if there is a chapter 11 on line somewhere LOL

I know DR Atkins puts info all over ythr book that we need to make Atkins work but folk that do the cliff notes version will be getting ckliff notes results and posting why why why

Because the body has an incredible memory - it remembers the experience and kicks in to prevent you from achieving the same results you did during the first go around. That's fairly common news to any dieter and any weightloss program.

Peter is isn't memory about that plan it is actual changed biological situations less muscle slower metabolism and not I will resist. if that was so then it would have remembered what you were doing gaining the weight was wrong and resisted that too but it didn't.

[Peterlock]

2big :wave

I'm not so sure about that,

In addiction there are some rules, few but there are some. There's no such thing as a "cured' alcoholic, heroin user or smoker - all are and will always be addicts in recovery livingg (hopefully) in sobriety one day at time.

Why would carbs and sugar (Which Dr. Atkins considered to be the single most insidious, destructive and addictive drug on earth) be exempt?

Doesn't make sense.

In my own experience I lost much more during my first Induction than I have on this one, even though this one is 100% by the book. I know so many people in my own life who have had sensational results on Atkins and other weighloss programs from weight watchers to the Zone diet who lost a great deal of weight..and lost it quickly.

Fast forward to when they've fallen off the diet, gained their weight and I see them struggling with slower results and working twice as hard as when they the did it the first time. I also see a significant number of posts from people who have been on and succeeded on Atkins in the past and are frustrated because in their new attempt the results are much slower than they remember.

As for the "GoldenShot" not having any clinical data to support it that may or may not be true, I don't know. Data that proves that second hand smoke is harmful or what makes up the physiology of a cocaine addict doesn't exist either, but that doesn't mean they aren't real and don't pose equally real questions and concerns.

Remember Dr. Atkins fought for this diet during a time when there wasn't a shred of evidence to support his hypothesis and conclusions - other than his own convictions.

Peter ha

[2big4mysize]

actually second hand smoke data does exist they tested non smoking airline cabin folk and found cigarette chemicals in them in high concentrations it was one of the studies that led to the banning of cigs and some secondhand class action lawsuits.

Not all over weight folk are carb addicts as hard as that may be for many of us to unserstand so addiction "rules do not apply to everybody some folk were simple overeaters for the amount of physcial activitiy they do. Dr Atkins discussed them in the book too.

the folk who have spectacular results on the diets other then Atkins lose up to 25% of thier weight as lean body tissues which are the fat burning cal consuming tisues. take the 200 pounder who was 40 % body fat that means they had 120 pounds of lean tissue and 80 pounds of fat they finish the wiehgt loss at 150 pounds for a 50 pound loss 25% of which was lean body tissues or 12.5 pound from 120 so they now have 107.5 pounds of calorie burning tissues and 32.3 pounds of fat. they stop eating the lower cal and exercising and go back up to 200 pounds again only this time they have more riding fat tissue and less cal burning lean tissues. keep this up and you can see by the 8th or 9th dieting they are flabby marchmellows. it is not your Atkins the next time it is any diet the next time will be harder.

I'm going to use you as an example Perter can you honestly say you now on this Atkins are as active and have the same amount of muscle mass as the first time you did your Atkins? I really doubt it.

the diference is easier to understand if you use the Katch McArdle BMR formula for the above example.our 200 pounder had a higher BMR the first time he was 200 pounds as the formula is
BMR = 370 + (21.6 X lean mass in kg)
so the first time it was 370+(21.6 X 120/2.2) =1548
the next time with the lower lean tissue it is 1425
and doing the exact same weight loss plan will take longer to get the same results


that is what this golden shot is about. change in the physical make up of the person and as a result they have a lower and slower metabolism each time they diet as we all know nobody continues to workout when they start gaining weight they have made a lifestyle change and stopped the exercise and the eating during this period of rapidly regaining the lst weight that yoyo folk go through.

[MojosRising]

I have to agree with 2big. I have done Atkins several times in my life. All with very different results. I wish I had the actual numbers. But I certainly do not prescribe to the theory that the first time I did Atkins I lost a lot more and faster than any other time.

After at least 4 induction periods I can honestly say that the more effort I put into following the diet correctly, the more weight I lost. And had I continued to follow the diet correctly I would not have been in the situation I find myself in now.... doing induction again.

My all time highest weight was 209 and I have never regained to that extent. So perhaps its different for those who regain all of their weight plus. I think it makes the most sense that your initial weight loss depends on how out of shape you are.

I think its almost impossible with all the variating factors to say for sure that you have "one golden shot". I would hate to think I had blown my chances for weight loss success and I don't think it helps anyone stay on the wagon to threaten that there is only one golden shot. In fact, personally, the knowledge that I can eat in a way that guarantees weight loss is the only thing that keeps me trying to lose weight.

[G-Mom]

I have read all your posts and can I say that I agree with both of you, Peter and 2Big? I think with yo-yo dieters that they are addicts, but to food. In order to gain lots of fat, one needs to overindulge. Usually, that food is high in carb and fat combo foods, which is no surprise that those foods cause fat gain the fastest.

So with that overindulging plus with the likelihood that the person won't be exercising anymore, the result would be a body with a higher fat percentage than before, and less calorie-burning muscle mass.

I just don't see why both addiction to food and less muscle mass/more fat mass can't both contribute to the difficulty in losing fast the next time around. IMO

[Peterlock]

Hi G-Mom, :wave

I think they really do go hand in hand, food addiction is as real and elusive of an addiction as anything else - and certainly the same facts and mysteries that apply to alcohol, nicotine, heroin or prescription drugs, apply to sugar and carb addiction too.

So I think you're right in that both the addiction and loss of muscle and gaining of fat contribute to difficult restarts of tried and failed diets.

BTW..not to take away from a great discussion but GMom you look fabulous! I can't believe the difference it's an absolute inspiration and I really applaud your sensational success!

Peter ha

[2big4mysize]

perhaps I missed it but I didn't see anything in that article about food addiction as athe cause of the next time being harder. She said when you low carb you have one golden shot at easy weight loss period no matter what type of person you are or what type of dieting and exercise you did betwen the next time you attempt it. Body builders sclupting for competitons do low carb over and over again and have no trouble cutting the fat off for a competion and after that camp the add back the fat but they are not being included in her letters data base as are the folk who are succesful she only "hears" from folk who are stuggling and that is a skewed data base and who be tossed out by any scientific body reviewing her theory.

I'm not saying being a carb or food addict doesn't make any weight loss program harder and you have to play mental games with yourself if you truely are not ready to commit to giving it up or controlling it

but Addiction is a very basic thing to stop and there are actually more successful former addicts then failures according to a study in Psychology today. when the cost to the person of the pleaure a person derives from using the addictive compound is greater then the joy they derive from the compound they will quit and most folk do over come their addictions without any reuse. The problem for carboholics is we have to let the tiger out of that cage and play with him several times a day and then stick him back in the cage and lock the door. Very very few alcoholics can drink daily without readdiciton taking place

[Peterlock]

but Addiction is a very basic thing to stop and there are actually more successful former addicts then failures according to a study in Psychology today. when the cost to the person of the pleaure a person derives from using the addictive compound is greater then the joy they derive from the compound they will quit and most folk do over come their addictions without any reuse. The problem for carboholics is we have to let the tiger out of that cage and play with him several times a day and then stick him back in the cage and lock the door. Very very few alcoholics can drink daily without readdiciton taking place

Addiction is a very basic thing to stop?
Really?
Tell that to the countless millions of addicts who can't stop, tell that to the greatest to the single most successful network of Rehabilitation programs Alcoholics Anonymous who states a 5% success rate over 5 years.

Tell that to the scientists and physicians and medical pioneers like Atkins who devoted their lives to understanding and treating addicts.


Tell that to the millions upon millions of obese people with addictive based eating disorders, who find no relife, not for a moment from their constant unbearable pain, self hate and struggle. Tell that to every Doctor, researcher and nutritionist devoting their lives to save them.

Tell that to the multi-Billion Dollar greed and extortion based diet industry.

Tell that to the countless thousands who die during medically supervised withdrawal from Benzodiazapans like Xanax every year - tell that to their families - tell that to the people who loved them.

Peter