Another go at Induction (Proper)

[dxbfatguy]

I'm on day 13 on my attempt at Induction, but I have realized that I did break quite a few rules.. probably overdid my carbs on several occasions (e.g. I once had a fresh pressed lemon juice). Not to mention the lack of vegetables in my diet, etc.

I'm not complaining, I have lost 10lbs so far, but then one would say it's mostly water. How much is 'most'? I don't know. How do you know? I stay hydrated and drink plenty of water, so how can most of my weight loss be water? I don't really understand the science behind that. I mean, I don't normally drink much water. I'm not really big on it, but I'm drinking a lot more of it now just cause my body seems to want it, not because I'm forcing myself to.

So, my question is: Do I go back and do Induction again, as I can't honestly say that I have been under 20g of carbs on a daily basis? Or do I move on to OWL? I need some advice here.


In other unrelated news: I just scored some Atkins snack bars ($3/piece - ouch!).. but I'm glad I found them.

[Georgiana]

Re: Another go at Induction (Proper)

probably overdid my carbs on several occasions

Track your carbs properly. Guessing won't help.

(e.g. I once had a fresh pressed lemon juice).

Lemon juice (fresh... not the stuff with sugar added) is allowed on Induction... but limited to 2-3 tbsp.

Not to mention the lack of vegetables in my diet, etc.

How could you have gone over your carbs if your veggies were lacking? What were your carbs coming from?

I'm not complaining, I have lost 10lbs so far, but then one would say it's mostly water. How much is 'most'? I don't know.

No one knows how much is water and how much is fat. But it's 10 lbs you don't have to carry around anymore. That's good for you. Congratulations!

how can most of my weight loss be water? I don't really understand the science behind that.

Part of the water lost during Induction is caused by "loss" of glycogen. Since glycogen is stored with a few parts water, when glycogen goes... water goes with it.

More water is lost because you are losing weight. Weight loss is usually accompanied by water loss too.

And some people also lose water because they are increasing their protein intake from what they were having pre-Atkins.

But after the first week or so, most of the weight you lose will be fat.

So, my question is: Do I go back and do Induction again, as I can't honestly say that I have been under 20g of carbs on a daily basis? Or do I move on to OWL? I need some advice here.

You do not "do Induction again". You just continue and correct things as you go. Aim close to 20 NET carbs, with over half of them coming from vegetables. Choose a variety of veggies, to give your body proper nutrition.

In other unrelated news: I just scored some Atkins snack bars ($3/piece - ouch!).. but I'm glad I found them.

I'm sorry... Atkins bars are stallers for many people. Atkins is about eating real, minimally processed foods. Atkins bars are not a good choice, imo. And those carbs you spend on bars could actually be spent on veggies. That would be much better for you!

[dxbfatguy]

Re: Another go at Induction (Proper)

Track your carbs properly. Guessing won't help.

How could you have gone over your carbs if your veggies were lacking? What were your carbs coming from?

From those days I decided to eat plenty of veggies.. and then ate a bunch of cucumbers (not peeled).

You do not "do Induction again". You just continue and correct things as you go. Aim close to 20 NET carbs, with over half of them coming from vegetables. Choose a variety of veggies, to give your body proper nutrition.

Alrighty then, whatever it's called, still on induction then.

I'm sorry... Atkins bars are stallers for many people. Atkins is about eating real, minimally processed foods. Atkins bars are not a good choice, imo. And those carbs you spend on bars could actually be spent on veggies. That would be much better for you!

I guess everyone's body reacts differently to 'stallers'. I got them cause they are useful when I don't get a chance to have lunch at work and need to eat something instead of starving myself all day. It's 2g a bar, so it doesn't feel like it's the end of the world. But, will use with caution.

Thanks!

[Georgiana]

Re: Another go at Induction (Proper)

From those days I decided to eat plenty of veggies.. and then ate a bunch of cucumbers (not peeled).

Cucumbers are good. Make sure you eat other veggies too.

It's 2g a bar, so it doesn't feel like it's the end of the world. But, will use with caution.

Some people metabolize (part of) the sugar alcohols in those bars. The "carbs that count" are 2 only after you subtract glycogen and sugar alcohols. Some could also have an intolerance to any of those ingredients in the bars.

But yes... eating them is your choice.

For a portable snack, you could also make cheese crackers and flax crackers.

[barrnone]

Re: Another go at Induction (Proper)

I think 10 lbs is a fantastic start!

[chinadoll]

Re: Another go at Induction (Proper)

Living where you do, and knowing you have food access issues during the day, the bars would be a good choice as an emergency food if there are no other choices--but view them that way and use them sparingly if at all. 22 almonds in a bag are another great emergency food even though they are Rung 3. I don't advocate going out of your rung, but I know that things are not always predictable or accessible in foreign countries and these choices are better than a carby choice.

[EveWasFramed]

Re: Another go at Induction (Proper)

I'm on Induction now and I have chosen not to use the Atkins shakes or bars, but I did eat them (one or the other every day) when I did atkins in 2003 and they did not seem to stall me at all. My weight loss was always consistent, but maybe it would have been even better had I not used them! Who knows?!?

I'm doing a "clean" induction, but once I move to OWL I will be keeping a couple Atkins bars in my glove compartment if hunger hits when I'm out and about and I will keep a couple shakes in the fridge for the days that I don't have the desire to make myself breakfast. Basically, I think they're OK to fall back on now and again, but I think they can be a bad habit to get into. They really are "frankenfoods" and this diet really should be about eating as many whole foods as possible, IMO. Plus, they don't really taste that great!

[Georgiana]

Re: Another go at Induction (Proper)

Here's my take on bars. Since they all have non-Induction ingredients (Rung 3 and higher), just because it is written on the package that they are allowed on Induction does not make them Induction-friendly. So instead of having an Atkins bar as an emergency food, why not have an ounce of nuts instead? They are not "legal" for Induction, but since bars aren't either... it's the same thing. Besides, nuts are a whole food, not a "frankenfood". It's also more or less the same thing as far as net carbs and calories are concerned:

1 oz macadamia nuts (10-12 kernels) = 1.49 net carbs, 204 kcal
1 oz almonds (22 almonds) = 2.17 net carbs, 169 kcal
1 oz walnuts (14 halves) = 1.99 net carbs, 185 kcal
1 oz pecans (about 31 nuts, according to DANDR) = 1.14 net carbs, 201 kcal

Caramel Chocolate Nut Roll = 3 net carbs, 170 kcal
Caramel Chocolate Peanut Nougat Bar = 3 net carbs, 170 kcal
Caramel Creme Coffee Bar = 3 net carbs, 180 kcal
Caramel Double Chocolate Crunch Bar = 3 net carbs, 160 kcal
Caramel Fudge Brownie Bar = 3 net carbs, 170 kcal
Chocolate Chip Granola Bar = 3 net carbs, 200 kcal
Chocolate Peanut Butter Bar = 2 net carbs, 240 kcal
Marshmallow Mudslide Bar = 3 net carbs, 210 kcal
Mocha Crisp Coffee Bar = 3 net carbs, 180 kcal
Peanut Butter Granola Bar = 3 net carbs, 200 kcal
Peanut Fudge Granola Bar = 2 net carbs, 200 kcal
S'mores Bar = 2 net carbs, 220 kcal
Sweet and Salty Almond Crunch Bar = 4 net carbs, 180 kcal

So if you are to go for an emergency food that is not allowed on Induction anyway, isn't an ounce of nuts better than a bar?

[dxbfatguy]

Re: Another go at Induction (Proper)

So someone tell me why on the Atkins website (The Atkins Diet Weight Loss Program: Diets - Weight Loss - Nutrition) bars are included in almost every other daily meal plan during induction?

As for

So if you are to go for an emergency food that is not allowed on Induction anyway, isn't an ounce of nuts better than a bar?

Umm.. no The bar is far more fulfilling than an ounce of nuts.

Question is: is it better to not eat for a prolonged period or eat a snack bar. That's what I would like to know. In other words, say I'm out and I know that I won't be able to get any of my ideal foods in for the next 8 hours. do I just drink water and deal.. or take on a snack bar (or an ounce of nuts or whatever)?

[Georgiana]

Re: Another go at Induction (Proper)

So someone tell me why on the Atkins website (The Atkins Diet Weight Loss Program: Diets - Weight Loss - Nutrition) bars are included in almost every other daily meal plan during induction?

As I have told someone only yesterday or so... ka-ching!

If it makes you feel any better, ANI knows that their Induction menu is wrong (not because of the bars though... they wouldn't admit that!) and the advice they give is to follow the Acceptable Foods List, not their sample menu.

Umm.. no The bar is far more fulfilling than an ounce of nuts.

You mean... it is more "fulfilling", as in the Longman DoCE?

ful‧fil‧ling
making you feel happy and satisfied because you are doing interesting, useful, or important things:

Since when is "fulfillment" a good measure of what one should eat?

If you look at calories and macronutrients, a bar and an ounce of nuts are very similar. And I know you didn't try them both anyway. You just like bars better!

Question is: is it better to not eat for a prolonged period or eat a snack bar. That's what I would like to know. In other words, say I'm out and I know that I won't be able to get any of my ideal foods in for the next 8 hours. do I just drink water and deal.. or take on a snack bar (or an ounce of nuts or whatever)?

I would not regularly go for 8 hours without eating, because it increases the risk to eat something worse than an ounce of nuts... or even a bar... and it also increases the risk to overeat at the next meal. What are you doing during the day? Driving? Working in an office? Digging for dinosaur bones? I am trying to help you out here, but it is very difficult with the few bits of info you are posting. If for whatever reason you don't want to share this in the forums (for privacy, for e.g.), feel free to send me a private message.

[crash]

Re: Another go at Induction (Proper)

Here's my take on bars. Since they all have non-Induction ingredients (Rung 3 and higher), just because it is written on the package that they are allowed on Induction does not make them Induction-friendly.

That's deep stuff


I have personally never tried them, but i can only imagine them as a kind of "cheat" food, ie if you get the shakes from your candy bar addiction or something. It's something that's not really necessary and i prefer organic, fresh food.

[dxbfatguy]

Re: Another go at Induction (Proper)

No no no.. look, I'm a lazy guy. A super lazy guy. I want a diet that works for me and that means it has to be easy and convenient. For example, I have not done ANY exercise up until last night. I didn't want to. I lost 10lbs in my first 2 weeks without any exercise. Again, I know it's water, but still. Point is, I want something that works for me, as lazy as I am.

And don't think that because I am a self-professed lazy person, I lack the determination and commitment. I am proud to say that I have quit smoking since April 2008. With that, came a lot of pounds too. I tried to exercise and diet and all that jazz together.. and I failed miserably at it. So, I broke it down to steps that work for me.

So, I understand that reluctance to accept snack bars as a viable alternative to healthy food. Fair enough. As I had said before, I will stay away from it unless it becomes far more inconvenient to eat something else.

As for fulfillment. It's simple. I eat nuts, I feel like I want more. I eat the snack bar, I feel full. This is just how I feel about it. I tried both. Ideally, I would rather not have to eat either. 3 regular meals is good for me.

So, allow me to quote DANDR 2002

p. 97

Remember: If you have a tendency to become hungry between meals, pop a few olives, an ounce of cheese, a scoop of tuna salad, a slice of pot roast or a convenient controlled carbohydrate bar or shake.

p. 140

A controlled carb chocolate bar may have only 2 grams of carbohydrates that impact on your blood sugar compared to 17 to 20 carb grams in the sugar- filled variety of comparable size. But eat five of them and you could well be back to the same kind of destructive behavior that got you in trouble in the first place.

Sorry for the long post, but I thought I should point out that it appears to me that from what I am reading, I can deduce the following:

* Snack bars are okay during induction (both quotes reference induction phase)
* Use common sense when eating them

[Georgiana]

Re: Another go at Induction (Proper)

No no no.. look, I'm a lazy guy. A super lazy guy.

I realized that already.

I want a diet that works for me and that means it has to be easy and convenient. For example, I have not done ANY exercise up until last night. I didn't want to. I lost 10lbs in my first 2 weeks without any exercise. Again, I know it's water, but still. Point is, I want something that works for me, as lazy as I am.

Exercise is mandatory on Atkins. Whether you want to do it or not... that's your problem.

So, I understand that reluctance to accept snack bars as a viable alternative to healthy food. Fair enough. As I had said before, I will stay away from it unless it becomes far more inconvenient to eat something else.

In my opinion, bars are acceptable as an emergency food if absolutely nothing else is available. True emergencies rarely happen. Using the bars just because eating something else is "far more inconvenient" (yet, possible!) is, as you already admitted, laziness.

As for fulfillment. It's simple. I eat nuts, I feel like I want more. I eat the snack bar, I feel full.

It is true that some people have portion control issues with nuts or find nuts a trigger food.

Sorry for the long post, but I thought I should point out that it appears to me that from what I am reading, I can deduce the following:

* Snack bars are okay during induction (both quotes reference induction phase)

One of the DANDR paradoxes. Dr. Atkins wrote in Ch. 11:

4. Eat absolutely no fruit, bread, pasta, grains, starchy vegetables or dairy products other than cheese, cream or butter. Do not eat nuts or seeds in the first two weeks. Foods that combine protein and carbohydrates, such as chickpeas, kidney beans and other legumes, are not permitted at this time.

Yet, the bars have diary (other than cheese, cream or butter), nuts, legumes (soy) or grains (oats). So what do we do?

* Use common sense when eating them

Lately, I've been all for common sense... but on the issue of bars (or nuts) eaten just because something else is "more inconvenient" (read, "I'm lazy")... you're not going to convince me. But what you eat is your choice and your responsibility.

[Georgiana]

Re: Another go at Induction (Proper)

p. 140

A controlled carb chocolate bar may have only 2 grams of carbohydrates that impact on your blood sugar compared to 17 to 20 carb grams in the sugar- filled variety of comparable size. But eat five of them and you could well be back to the same kind of destructive behavior that got you in trouble in the first place.

both quotes reference induction phase

You might want to check that again. The quote you posted is from Chapter 17, "Lifetime Maintenance", and it definitely does not "reference induction phase".

Actually, if you read a bit further, you will find this (Ch. 19):

There are also controlled carb chocolate bars (appropriate only after Induction) that serve when only chocolate will satisfy your cravings.

[dxbfatguy]

Re: Another go at Induction (Proper)

Heh.. so, in short: Dr. Atkins is not sure what his stance is on the subject

Your interpretation is: err on the side of caution. Gotcha!

In other news, I have started exercising now -- I am feeling up to it. I actually feel pretty good today. It's my first day of the Induction Round 2, and I think I'll do it perfectly this time.

On the whole, I feel that I'm getting a better grip on this induction thing. I'm happier with myself and despite the pain in the underworked muscles who have just realized they exist last night.. I'm good