Spinach & Greens 5 Cups...Negative?

[iDoWork]

Hey, so I was rereading the Atkins book and I notice Atkins claims that you should only eat 1 cup of either spinach or Greens only if you haven't exceeded 2 cups of lettuce.

Why the heck is that?

I ask because Atkins also said that you should not exceed 20 carbs per day. According to fitday and other calorie tracking sites, my 5 cups of spinach/greens only amounts to 11 carbs. That's a total of 13 carbs even after I include 12 Oz of chicken (skinless), 5 Oz Canned Tuna, 5 strips of bacon, 6 tablespoons of Olive Oil and the amount of lemon juice from 1.5 lemons (Atkins + Alkalinity FTW).

Stats - 38/59/3 (protein/fat/carbs) 1453 Calories, 144g Protein (about 1g/Lean Lb. of bodymass), 13 Carbs and I'm FULL. I lift, so protein is high, and I assume its ample and being used as fuel because I'm not running to the bathroom.

I'll go out on a limb here and assume I'm in the clear, but I'd still like to hear what the pros have to say. Oh, and I'm insulin resistant

[Georgiana]

Re: Spinach & Greens 5 Cups...Negative?

2 cups of lettuce.

No where does Dr. Atkins say that you must eat 2 cups of lettuce. Do you have the Acceptable Foods List?

lemon juice from 1.5 lemons

Lemon juice is limited to 2-3 tbs.

[quite]13 Carbs[/quote] Are those net carbs or total carbs?

If you are wondering whether you may eat more than 3 cups of vegetables, my opinion is that you may. But you may also eat vegetables other than lettuce and spinach.

[iDoWork]

Re: Spinach & Greens 5 Cups...Negative?

No where does Dr. Atkins say that you must eat 2 cups of lettuce. Do you have the Acceptable Foods List?

Lemon juice is limited to 2-3 tbs.

[quite]13 Carbs

Are those net carbs or total carbs?

If you are wondering whether you may eat more than 3 cups of vegetables, my opinion is that you may. But you may also eat vegetables other than lettuce and spinach.[/QUOTE]

If you have the e-book of "Dr.Atkins' New Diet Revolution", he clearly states on page 85 right under "Other Vegetables", "You can have one cup per day if salad does not exceed two cups-these vegetables are slightly higher in carbohydrate content than the salad vegetables:...", he then lists the other vegetables (spinach and greens being included), and finally to eliminate any confusion says "If a vegetable, such as spinach or tomato, cooks down significantly, it must be measured raw so as not to underestimate its carb count."

According to that, 1 cup of "other vegetables" is pushing it. He refers to salad as 21 different veggies and limits them to 3 cups MAX (romaine and lettuce being on the list). The way I figured it, I could use 1/3 cup romaine 1/3 cucumber and 1/3 cup celery for 1 cup of salad or I could have a cup of cucumbers or lettuce (the latter wouldn't be the best choice), but either way I can't exceed 2 cups if I want to have 1 cup of "other vegetables". Am I missing something?

I do have the acceptable food list and yes that's 13 total carbs. The spinach has 5.5, lemon juice 6, bacon .4 and Tuna 1. You are also correct on the lemon juice, but i figured that as long as I'm well under 20 carbs it should be alright.

[Georgiana]

Re: Spinach & Greens 5 Cups...Negative?

I do have the acceptable food list and yes that's 13 total carbs.

Why are you counting total carbs and not net carbs?

i figured that as long as I'm well under 20 carbs it should be alright.

I would not consume more than 2-3 tbs. Better use those carbs on other foods.

As for cups vs. carbs... I posted this before... and here it goes again:

If you read DANDR, 3 cups are indeed mentioned there. So if you are following the book word by word... well... then eat 3 cups.

Below is my opinion on veggies. However, please keep in mind that at ADBB people are going by 3 cups. Of course, no one is going to come down to your place to check how you fit the veggies in a cup, what veggies you eat, or whether you choose to weigh them or measure them by cup... so interpret the book as you wish and as it makes sense to you.

Okay...

For someone who eats only romaine lettuce, eating 12 net carbs of vegetables sucks. That's about 22 cups of romaine. A lot of lettuce! Other than the fact that I seriously doubt anyone would eat a mountain of lettuce, it should be clear to everyone that eating only lettuce does not supply your body with proper nutrition. I won't go as far as to say that lettuce is only "crispy water"... I believe it has its place in one's diet... but all vegetables are rich in certain nutrients and poor in others. So if you do not consume a variety of vegetables, you will be getting too much of some nutrients and too little of others, making your diet unbalanced and not as healthy as it could be. Certain nutrient deficiencies are not only bad for your overall health, but also bad for your metabolism (hence, weight loss), because the metabolism needs them to run efficiently.

To give your body proper nutrition, it is important to choose a variety of vegetables from both lists. Don't eat only tomatoes... only pumpkin... only radishes... or only lettuce. By choosing vegetables from both lists, instead of only vegetables from the "Other Vegetables" list, you will be able to eat a larger variety of them (since the ones on the "Salad Vegetables" list are typically lower in carbs), which in the end is better for your health.

Also... as you read in your copy of DANDR, you should spread your veggies throughout the day, to avoid blood sugar spikes. For example, having no veggies for breakfast, a 2-cup lettuce-only salad for lunch and then "loading" on 15 net carbs of pumpkin lasagna for dinner is a bad idea.

As for 3 cups... If you choose to eat more than 3 cups, you must measure your veggies properly, not eyeball a cup or 100 g. If you choose lower carb veggies, then eating more than 3 cups is fine (again, keep in mind that this is only my opinion... from reading DANDR and from talking to people who worked with Dr. Atkins). If you choose higher carb veggies, like jicama, red peppers, onion, etc., then your net carbs for the day (not only from vegetables alone) can get close to 20 by eating 3 cups. Otherwise, in my opinion, you are only cheating yourself of nutrition.

Working in cups... If one eats a cup of red peppers for breakfast, a cup of asparagus and 1/2 cup of sauteed mushrooms for lunch, I seriously doubt eating a salad made with 2 cups of arugula and some cherry tomatoes for dinner will do any harm (of course, all these veggies should be eaten with some protein and fat). After all, there are several ways to eat, let's say, 18 net carbs in one day. Below are two examples.

-----------------------------------------
Menu #1
1 cup pumpkin [6.94 net carbs]
1 cup jicama [5.07 net carbs]
1 cup cucumbers [3.18 net carbs]
1 oz cream cheese [1.15 net carbs]
2 medium eggs [0.68 net carbs]
8 oz decaf coffee with 1 tbsp heavy cream [1.22 net carbs ---> 0.8 net carbs from coffee and 0.42 from cream]

Total: 18.24 net carbs wit 15.19 net carbs from vegetables
-----------------------------------------
Menu #2
1 cup kale [5.41 net carbs]
1-1/2 cup broccoli [3.64 net carbs]
1 cup mushrooms [1.58 net carbs]
2 cups arugula [0.86 net carbs]
5 cherry tomatoes [2.33 net carbs]
1 tbsp lemon juice [1.22 net carbs]
1 oz cream cheese [1.15 net carbs]
2 medium eggs [0.68 net carbs]
8 oz decaf coffee with 1 tbsp heavy cream [1.22 net carbs]

Total: 18.09 net carbs with 13.82 net carb from vegetables
-----------------------------------------

As you can see, both menus have about the same number of net carbs. However, Menu #1 has 3 cups of vegetables, while Menu #2 has a bit over 6 cups. Personally, I will not tell anyone eating Menu #2 that they are not following Induction properly just because their veggies happened not to fit in 3 cups. I used to tell members this... but people learn... or change their mind... however you want to see it.

Personal opinion over.

[MysticD]

Re: Spinach & Greens 5 Cups...Negative?

Hi

For me I have found the easiest way with the "salad" veggies list is to just combine all the ones i like, for instance my 2 cups of salad veggies this week are coming from Lettuce, radishes, cucumber, orange pepper & celery. I just finely chop them make a mixed salad out of them and then have 2 cups of the mixed salad a day. You can't go over your allowed veggies that way because they are all on the acceptable list. And with my "other" veggies I usually have half a cup of any two of them. Yesterday for eg it was half a cup of cherry tomatoes cooked with Garlic butter & half a cup of sprouts lightly steamed. Just make sure you get variety so you don't get bored & dispondent and as long as you are eating good healthy carbs I am sure it wont matter if you go "over" on your vegetables now & again.

Good luck

[atkinsgal08]

Re: Spinach & Greens 5 Cups...Negative?

>>The spinach has 5.5>>

Fresh spinach?

That must be a lot of spinach!

[Shrew2u]

Re: Spinach & Greens 5 Cups...Negative?

>>The spinach has 5.5>>

Fresh spinach?

That must be a lot of spinach!

13 oz of Spinach (about 12.5 cups) has 5.2g net carb per Nutrition Data.

And I like spinach...but even I can't choke down that much in one day!

[liv]

Re: Spinach & Greens 5 Cups...Negative?

I believe Atkins originally thought that the 1 cup limit was cooked spinach. But if you eat raw spinach I don't know.
this is a fat and protein diet - carbs are our problem food. So while most of us can get away with trying to eat a lot of meat or fat most of us cannot really do that becasue it is self limiting. Carbs on the other hand stimulate appetite and we need to learn how to limit them form the very beginning of the diet. Wanting to eat several buckets of carbs is not great.

[Shrew2u]

Re: Spinach & Greens 5 Cups...Negative?

Carbs on the other hand stimulate appetite and we need to learn how to limit them form the very beginning of the diet. Wanting to eat several buckets of carbs is not great.

I'm still on the hunt for the "I eat a pound of spinach, a big English hothouse cuke, 8oz of mushrooms, a yellow bell pepper and a medium tomato everyday, is that too much veg?" post as opposed to the "I eat a side of beef, 4 dozen eggs, an entire recipe of cream cheese clouds and a 6-pack of Diet Coke every day - should I eat less Romaine lettuce?" post.

[liv]

Re: Spinach & Greens 5 Cups...Negative?

Good point Shrew2u

[iDoWork]

Re: Spinach & Greens 5 Cups...Negative?

Alright everyone, thanks. It looks like I have you all thinking I eat lettuce and only lettuce, but that's not the case lol. I tried to explain in my last post that I realize a variety would be best.

Greens and spinach are my favs because they're loaded with nutrients and according to FitDay 5 cups of Raw spinach = 5.5 carbs (what I had yesterday) and Nutrition Data says the same thing. I thought those were the numbers I needed to go by when counting carbs, but apparently those are total carbs (which I thought was correct) and I need to go by Net Carbs. I don't know how I missed that, it's what the diet is all about.

I also just realized I'm Insulin resistant, have a gluten allergy and am lactose intolerant so I can't enjoy lots of the things some on here can such as eggs and cheese which are huge on the Atkins diet. Coconut milk would be nice but is forbidden on induction and I don't want to use any type of substitute.

I'm still on the hunt for the "I eat a pound of spinach, a big English hothouse cuke, 8oz of mushrooms, a yellow bell pepper and a medium tomato everyday, is that too much veg?" post as opposed to the "I eat a side of beef, 4 dozen eggs, an entire recipe of cream cheese clouds and a 6-pack of Diet Coke every day - should I eat less Romaine lettuce?" post.

Well played sir, point made, and it looks like you found it.