Planning For Cheats

[Effie]

Re: Planning For Cheats

Ya know, I asked a friend this question this afternoon. Please explain to me the difference between a planned cheat and an unplanned cheat. Is a 'planned cheat' okay, but an unplanned cheat isn't? Does your body really know the difference? Does it say to itself 'oh, she planned to cheat, so I'll overlook it?' On the other hand, if its unplanned, does your body suddenly say, 'okay, sister, NOW YOU WILL PAY!"?

Thought provoking indeed. I think one of things that does make a difference between planned and unplanned cheats is the psychology of the cheat. Sometimes, especially with us emotional eaters, our self talk is a lot more damaging than the number of carbs we're consuming. In that regard, a planned or a "controlled" cheat is just that, controlled. Is this better than cheating uncontrollably? I think so. And I'm sure lots of people will say that there are no varying degrees of cheating at all; any cheat is a horrible cheat. I liked bugout's earlier metaphor of preaching abstinence only as a way to prevent pregnancy. It is the most effective way, but if it's too idealistic, it could backfire.

[2big4mysize]

Re: Planning For Cheats

good for you.


BTW you do know you actually started cheating on your Atkins when you did your cheat prep work by cutting down your fats and proteins so you had a planned cheat on top of a planned cheat.

FYI we have some pics coming soon from Sasquatch who just did have a low carb cheese chake at her wedding a few weeks ago as the bride's cake.

Oh and we have a completly low carb Seder meal in the recipe section that is OWL acceptable when you get there and according to a Jewish low carb diabetic site there is actually kosher low carb matza

[Quarterpounder]

Re: Planning For Cheats

Looking at the multitude and TYPE of responses here, perhaps this discussion could have taken place in the Low-carb forum.

I was wondering how to adjust my eating throughout the rest of the day to minimize the effect of the 'taboo' foods I plan on eating tonight?
Is it correct for me to assume that by maintaining the Induction-recommended 65% fat/5% carb/30% protein ration for most of the day, then indulging in carbs at night, that I'd be getting myself into big trouble?
So with that said, is it better for me to compensate for the event by eating mostly low-fat, healthy carbs for the day?

Bugout429 never asked for consent about what she was going to do. She had a plan and wanted to find the least damaging way of doing it. She neither asked "is it ok to plan this cheat"? nor did she ask "how to cheat AND get away with it". Bugout did not excuse what she was about to do. There seems to be no evidence of any of this in the words of the original post.
She even stated further on in the thread "Being supportive doesn't necessarily mean condoning what I do, but if you have constructive feedback to offer, I'd appreciate it if you'd give it without judgement or condemnation."

not2sweet: "I don't think anyone is going to want to answer it...it's like we are condoning it... ...but most people here are REALLY trying to NOT cheat and you come in asking us how you CAN cheat and get away with it. It just doesn't seem right, I guess"
ttdriver: "Eat crap - stay fat. That's not mean, that's truth."
FightingTheFight: "By that statement I am going to go ahead and assume that you haven't totally grasped the concept of this WOE"
Finelly: "The next time you consider calling people who advocate not cheating "nazis", please remember that there are at LEAST 3 Holocaust survivors who frequent this board, and at least 5 adult children of survivors. You should know better. It's a shande."
ttdriver: "This is an Atkins support board, not a 'we support your right to cheat' board... ...If you choose to cheat, then that's up to you. But don't look here for approval."
Brook: "You were, in effect, asking for us to tell you the best way to cheat and found that it's not likely to happen. You chose to view it as an attack and then name call. (Ridiculous and childish, really.)"
FightingTheFight: "I had a whole page of remarks set ready to fire...but decided against it... ...You are either eating the Atkins way or not. simple. You want to cheat controlled or not, don't call it Atkins. We are sticklers around here because we have experience of watching people having controlled cheats never to be seen again. You want to play with your body like that...fine...but don't berate us because we don't except your ideas. You are not going to start a reformation. Theres already a group of people who did that....their called statistics. "9 out of 10 dieters will regain their weight within 1 year of reaching goal.""
ttdriver: "Please explain to me the difference between a planned cheat and an unplanned cheat. Is a 'planned cheat' okay, but an unplanned cheat isn't? Does your body really know the difference? Does it say to itself 'oh, she planned to cheat, so I'll overlook it?' On the other hand, if its unplanned, does your body suddenly say, 'okay, sister, NOW YOU WILL PAY!"? If you're an alcoholic, but you plan to have one drink, is it harmless? If you're an addict and you plan to snort, does it not affect you? The vast majority of us are either carboholics or reformed carboholics, but we all have basically the same symptoms .. we eat crap, we get fat. Planned or not."

Whether people like it or not, this will not be the first and last time a cheat will happen, planned or unplanned. Many people will cheat because we were not strong enough to avoid all those carb temptations out there, some will cheat "as a way to jump start their diet if they were stalled" and mimic the workings of CKD (Cyclic Ketogenic Diet). And there will be others (a very smalll minority) who can cheat, eat crap, come back to Atkins, and will not stay fat.
But Yes, most of us here on ADBB will NOT be able to eat crap and not suffer the consequences of it - that is why we have tried Atkins as almost a last resort and found this WOE working as no other diets have. Yes most of us are carbaholics or reformed carbaholics but NOT ALL. Even if we would like to say most alcoholics end up going to AA, NOT all who end up on this board are carbaholics. YES this is a support board for Atkineers, but it should not limit its support to just those who follow Atkins to a tee. There are many people in this thread who will not condone cheating and straying off the Atkins path, but should there not also be forgivness to those who do stray, to encourage them to come back to the "Atkins path" rather than keep reminding them WHAT they are doing wrong, even though they may already know this?
After reading so many of the above pasted quoted replies to this thread, it looked like a criticism of BUGOUT going ahead with the planned cheat, rather than

its the evil food monster we hate, and the way it trys to entice people to fall into traps.

Many of the initial responses were NOT trying to ENCOURAGE Bugout to not go ahead with her planned cheat OR to find out what foods she could avoid. This thread became a place for clarifying the definition of "****", a place where others got offended, a place for people to EMPHASISE that Atkins must be followed to a tee, a place that could stop someone like Bugout from ever asking a question like this AGAIN. This is a board supporting the Atkins DIET and that is why we have so many different kinds of forums catering for people who want to do Atkins strictly to those who make mistakes, to those who fall off but come back later, to those who are doing a modified form of Atkins or rather low-carb dieting. Maybe Bugout should have posted her question elsewhere so as to not confuse the philosophy of Extended Induction but just look at all the above comments made??? (quoted in red)

If this thread offended a person, why was there a need to respond to it? There are many threads that would offend each and every one of us depending on our beliefs, values, standards, religion etc. But do we need to go in and respond if we dislike the thread in some way? This IS a Q & A forum - a place for us to not only to ask questions, but also a place to share our experiences. As a support forum should do, we support those who are going well on Atkins, we even support those who have slipped up and come back to Atkins wanting to do it better. But as soon as someone asks a question not quite to our liking, why do we suddenly come up criticisms, name-calling, even bring in our own personal or religious beliefs here? Would it not be more helpful to quietly PM the person rather than do it so publicly for all to see? Or even better still, choose to ignore this thread and not comment on it, and let some other people try and answer with suggestions, encouragement and experiences? This seems to be yet another thread topic which is not "condoned", and we have probably made Bugout regret asking the questions the first place... and who knows how many other useful answers we have chased away from this thread, if not this board, because of the responses here?

Even though we all know that cheating is the kiss of death on the ANA, I think it's valuable for all of us to know if it's even possible to make a calculated exception without suffering a major setback. I'm sure many of you quietly agree.

You could almost say that Bugout volunteered to be a test subject on the effects of cheating. I am certain she knew that many here would be against cheating but she wanted to go ahead and find out what would happen to HER, how it would affect HER if she went ahead with the cheat and "planning" it, so that it would not be out of control. Whether it was appropriate to have done it at this stage of her eating, she CHOSE to do it and suffer the consequences whatever that may be.

The way Bugout went about this is no different to a teenager wanting to find out about sex:
SURE it is out of wedlock and a sin against many religious beliefs
SURE there are consequences of going ahead with the sexual encounter and dealing with the emotional/personal/physical ramifications of it
SURE there is a possibility of pregnancy after the event
SURE there will be parents who will do everything to stop the teen from going ahead with it.
But the teenager could likely go ahead with having sex, and but would want to minimise the impact of this, and how would this be done? At least by practising safe sex, using appropriate contraceptive methods, and perhaps openly discussing with someone the effects of going ahead with the sex. It may not have been right for the teen to have underaged or pre-marital sex, but if the teen was going to go ahead with it, at least try and do it in a way that produces the least negative outcomes as possible.
This may not be the best analogy but Bugout was thinking of cheating and wanted to know how to minimise the effects of this, if it was at all possible.
Unsafe sex, planned cheating - why take the risk you say?
Only Bugout can stop what she was planning to do, and whatever the outcome, as one of you said "this is a support board" - whether she screwed up or not, she still needed support for whatever consequences she had to face afterwards - this is what a support board and friends would do.

Now I have to commend to all those who tried to respond in a more positive and encouraging light.

"I am just saying that you need to understand how things work, how it affects the body and then make decisions. Even a dope head makes sure the needle is clean." -FightingTheFight
"but just as with any cheat the next bite in your mouth should be Atkins induction food listed, drink plenty of water and hold on for a wild ride as you see the effect of the blood sugar swing you are about to experience from the rapid ingestion of those carbs your body will be functioning as a diabetics would." -2big4mysize
"Planned cheating is really a concious decision to sabotage yourself. Its upto you if you think its the way to go, but here are a few things to think about... ...If after all this, you still make a decision to do the planned cheat, be very prepared on how you will get back on track the very next day." -Sonya Parker
"I don't know the answer to your question, but I do understand your thinking about cheating and wondering in which way it will affect you the least... ...If you still plan on cheating, I think there was a thread on either this board of the main atkins board that dealt with cheating during camping, if I'm not mistaken. An answer may be in that thread." -DebbieY
"I think everyone here has pretty much covered that you are going to feel terribly guilty and emotionally pretty rotten.
Be aware that you are going to feel awful physically! ...On the other hand, it was a valuable learning experience!" -clairebear
"I agree. Even though I am not perfect (no one is)... I have had a few planned cheats and it really sets you back.... ...But make sure you get back on track IMMEDIATELY after this dinner... like DON'T even cheat anymore that night... just go back to what you were doing or you'll go down a bad path... I did and I'm having a very hard time now. I kinda wish I never cheated because I was doing so well and I was enjoying my foods but I really thought I should reward myself with food and it was a mistake." -Enchantedraisin
"Congrats on getting right back on track! Forget about yesterday, move ahead, and lotsa luck to you! You're in control!!!" -cruiser gal
"Well, first off...congratulations on moving right back onto plan today.. Just drink some extra water today to help flush out the stuff you ate ... ...you gotta see how YOU react to it. It's like the sugar alcohols, everybody responds differently. Some can eat them, others can't. But, I must warn you in the future..be prepared for the responses you get when you ask a question of this nature. They sometimes turn into the most controversial threads here." -love2beeamom
"You did your planned cheat alot smarter than I Bugout! When I did it, it turned into a five day binge basically. But, I hope to be at that point where I can cheat a little and move on." -kbuchs
"Just remember, the weight loss statistics are stacked against us: 9 out of 10 dieters will regain their weight within 1 year of reaching goal. It would be ashame if anyone here will reach goal and regain their weight because they didn't learn how their bodies tolerate food...." -not2late
"I think one of things that does make a difference between planned and unplanned cheats is the psychology of the cheat. Sometimes, especially with us emotional eaters, our self talk is a lot more damaging than the number of carbs we're consuming. In that regard, a planned or a "controlled" cheat is just that, controlled. Is this better than cheating uncontrollably? I think so." -Effie

[AllieCat0817]

Re: Planning For Cheats

Allie still says 'don't cheat, planned or not, period'.

[kpoll19]

Re: Planning For Cheats

Megs & Brook,

I experience what someone on this board once referred to as "extreme constipation", even despite my water intake (my water takes the easy way out, if you ask me) and use of sugar free metamucil. As a result, I experience weight gains that are not truly weight gains, but just intestinal buildup.

Bugout,

I find that making Flax Bread solves this problem totally!

2 cups Flax seed meal
1 tsp baking powder
1 tsp baking soda
5 eggs
3 tbsp oil
7-9 tbsp of a sugar free flavored syrup (I use Davinci flavors)
1/8-1/4 cup splenda

Mix and pour into greased loaf pan and bake at 350 for 30-40 min. Cut into 16 slices = 2 carbs each

Totally legit on induction. I have 1 or 2 slices in the morning and put a 1/2 oz of cream cheese on mine and it is pretty good and will take care of your uh, problem

Good luck.

Kelly

[not2late]

Re: Planning For Cheats

Just a quick note: My advice to anyone on Extended Induction who wants to "cheat" (which I define as not eating according to the Induction Rules and eating foods not on the Induction Acceptable Foods List) is to MOVE ONTO OWL.

More veggies, fruits, carbier veggies, legumes, and whole grains are acceptable foods during OWL and if your body can tolerate these foods, they can be a part of your daily or weekly menu. I've gone through the rungs and have found what the handful of foods my body doesn't like. That, in turn, has opened up a wider variety of foods to me. I don't stress out when I go to restaurants. I don't stress out when I go to parties. I don't stress out when I go to state fairs or festivals. Why? Because I know how many carbohydrates my body can tolerate and I know what kinds of foods I can and can't eat.

You can eat well on Induction, but you can eat better when you move to OWL (and contrary to popular Extended Induction belief---you still lose weight on OWL!)

[AllieCat0817]

Re: Planning For Cheats

oh YES! I lost the absolute majority of my weight on OWL. My bod preferred OWL to Induction, big time.

[FightingTheFight]

Re: Planning For Cheats

Allie, I really want to learn the science behind that.

I keep seeing it and wondering why some people OWL works wonders, where in some cases, Inductions seems the best.

Wonder if 2Big knows? or Not2Late?

[AllieCat0817]

Re: Planning For Cheats

I really am not sure. The first two foods I added were strawberries and macadamia nuts, and I ate them every single day along with the regular induction foods (veggies, meats, allowed dairy). BUT, I still kept the carbs below 25 most of the time, somehow. I think some folks' bodies tolerate more carbs better for whatever reason.

I hadn't 'dieted' at ALL since 1990... until 13 yrs later in 2003 so perhaps my bod wasn't as metabolically resistant as a 'seasoned low fat dieter'.

I also started eating Dannon full fat plain yogurt 4 months into my journey and the weight just melted off. And if you believe the carton, it says 14g carbs per 8oz, and I ate (still eat) a LOT of it, at least 2 cups every day. I was going by the 'yogurt exception' where only 4 carbs are counted because supposedly the bacteria eat away at alot of the milk sugars. Who knows if it's true or not, but my bod seems to think so.

[2big4mysize]

Re: Planning For Cheats

wellto hijack this topic, you still are enjoying the deep ketosis of Atkins high fat eating but you are not eating as much fat and your entire food intake will drop a few hundred cals as you add back the grams of carbs.

You are also getting deeper into your exercise program now and getting in better shape so you are burning more cals as exercise and you are building more calorie burning lean body mass too. Check your own exercise log and you will see you are going faster further and longer then when you started in induction. If you look at chapter 14 of DANDR you will see a footnote about regular exercise allows for more carbs in the CCLL charts but many folk keep their carbs far below the CCLL for long periods of time as they slowly climb the ladder testing foods and checking the negative results several times like not2late did with the nuts rung and the cheese rung, so in effect as your CCLL increases but you are eating further and further below it cause you don't increase to keep up you get a big gap like induction creates. This allows your Atkind ketosis to keep going much like induction as the majority fuel for your body the majority of the time.

Also, OWL foods are not calorically dense like induction foods so you will be eating less cals at a sitting, getting fuller on your carb foods added to your induction 3 cups and still getting some protein and some fats in there. You will see your snack change from burgers to a few berries and a bit of your cream alotment, a few nuts, veegies and some of your fat either as a sauce or dip and other such slightly higher carb lower protein and fat snacks which is lower cal. remember when you add 5 net carbs you are only ading 20 usable cals to your daily caloric intake but if your rung 1 choice is something like more greens you feel fuller and don't eat all the stuff on your palte that you would have eatten the week before in induction.

to sum it up you got less cals going in and more cals being used up exercising. Since the change in the internal cals used to metabolize the added carbs vs the lost internal cals not being burned up for the fats is less then 10% of the cals exchanged or about 2 for each rung asuuming all cals not ingested are fats since we slightly lower our fat intake as we up our carb intake during OWL if you do in fact maintain your caloric intake at the same amount. most don't

[love2beeamom]

Re: Planning For Cheats

WOW, 2big, that was a great explanation.. I didn't ever really think about why, I just knew I lost better on OWL too.

[iyamamaschke]

Re: Planning For Cheats

I can honestly say I have been in the mind set of this poster. I was on Atkins and would plan cheats every weekend for a while it was ok. I was able to lose and did well my cravings were in check and I thought I was doing all right. Then the cheats would turn into 2 days then it went from there. I justified my WOE every single time I cheated I didn't feel guilty to begin with but as time went on I did begin to feel the wrath of the carb monster. I cheated oevr and over and it didn't matter if I went out or what I cheated I didn't need an excuse I did it. Then the day came where I fell off hard. I was at my goal weight I cheated all the way there. This at that time was not a WOE for life it was an on again off again affair. I thought I'll do this till I get to goal then I got pregnant and all the **** hit the fan. I tried to stay on atkins but, I had not learned anything about how to follow the WOE properly I basically NEVER followed Atkins properly.

I am not meaning to offend I am just speaking from experience. Ok so back to the storey I gained 60 pounds with my first went back on Atkins like I had before I cheated all the time but lost weihgt ya, I went down to 180 20 heavier then I was before then pregnant with number 2 gained another 60 pounds throwing caution to the wind and gained it all back + I never lost the weight I was able to get down to 228 through starvation Atkins and cheating, It finally clicked after I had my 3rd was 285+ pounds this was after dieting for 2 weeks before Atkins. November 6th 2004 I finally realized that I can not cheat it ends in disaster, Many critisize because we know what happens in the long run. It's a damaging raod and all of us speak out not to hurt or harm it because we don't wanna see happen to you what has happened to us. I have restarted this WOE over 15 times every time I felt guilty this time I can honestly say I am so Proud that I have done so well 8.5 months cheat free. I have had so many opportunities to indulge but, my will will not allow me to I choose not to do that to myself again and feel the pain of being fat and lothing in my own self sabotaging pitty. I choose not to cheat. I do not support any cheating but, I am very glad you have gotten back on track and are doing well. I have been on the hard road to discovery and I don't want anyone to feel the pain that 1 cheat did to me.

Please don't take this personally I only want to share my experience and want you to do well on this WOE that's all any of us want.

Sarah

[lots2lose]

Re: Planning For Cheats


iyamamascke,that was very inspiring and I Know that I will join you in being one of those that doesn't cheat during this WOL because that is what it is,a WOL,and if you plan to follow it then the should be not entertaining ideas about cheating.When you start doing this WOE and WOL,you are basically making a pledge to treat yourself the way you deserved all along,as a beautiful human being who deserves better than the guilt they feel as a failure.If you can cheat and not realize the wrong in that,and the sabotage it poses to your WOL,then by all means go ahead but I do not in any way think that the reponses you got were in anyway chastising at all.Your whole attitude is like a lot of people I encounter:they ask for you opinion about something they did or are going to do that they knew/know was wrong,but need someone to lie to them and tell them that it was o.k. and then when they are not told what they want to hear then they become defensive.You are on an Atkins forum,with people who completely support this WOL.You should have expected every response made to you.And instead of feeling humble and realizing that every one is looking out for your best interest becuase we've all been through the same s**t,you start using derogatory language and just lashing out unreasonably.If I had asked such a question and received a response such as you did,I would call it a day and learn my lesson,but no,you had to justify your guilt and you had to be right.


other than that,as everyone has already said to you,welcome back and we are glad you learned your lesson(hopefully).1 cheat leads to another,whether planned or unplanned.You can plan plenty of cheats,but it can control you in the end as much as an unplanned out.

[bugout429]

Re: Planning For Cheats

Hi everybody,

Just doing my Sunday night check-in... I just wanted to thank everyone who wrote to me privately or through this thread who showed support. In every case, the sentiment was the same - cheating on a whim already has a detrimental snowball effect, and if I were to uncover a cheating loophole, that could open a pandora's box of excuses and rationalizations that would inevitably set the stage for a major failure, perhaps ending me up even worse than I began. I agree with that 100%, and with this one incident successfully behind me, I'm glad to say that I'm back on track, apparently without any setbacks.

To anyone who wrote me privately, I did try to respond to everyone, except some of your mailboxes are full and do not accept messages until you delete some (ahem, Raisin!)

And QuarterPounder, you were right about my intentions, I WAS willing to test my own theory out on myself to try to better understand how the ANA works. The reason I asked in the first place was because I am new, and figured someone out there might have tried it already. In the end, I had my little night of fun and didn't suffer any setbacks (not counting social ostracism). Here's the facts:

• I did go off-plan once before, by accident. I OD'ed on some BBQ ribs after my very 1st week of Induction, and promptly gained 3 lbs, so evidently I DON'T happen to have a forgiving metabolism.
• My planned cheat was going to occur at night. I planned that day's breakfast and lunch around it.
• For breakfast I had 1/2 C Uncle Sam cereal with 1/3 C 2% milk.
• For lunch I had a spinach salad with grilled chicken, grape tomatoes, red onions, cucumber & feta, with a low-cal low-sugar dressing. Lots of water.
• CHEAT-TIME!! I think part of the reason why my cheat was relatively forgiven by my body was because, even though I was cheating, I didn't go all out. The extent of my cheat was 2 lightly-sweetened cocktails, 2 bites of fire-roasted corn-on-the-cob, steak tacquitos on 2 small corn tortillas, and 2 bites each of 2 desserts shared by 6 people. I'm not trying to justify, but just saying that I doubt I'd have gotten away setback-free had I eaten KFC extra crispy with mashed potatoes, gravy, cole slaw & mac-n-cheese (not a chance. those days are over!)
• The next day I went right back on plan and guzzled water like a madwoman.
• Three days later, I'm still the same size as I was on pre-cheat.

Still, we can all agree that the best solution is DON'T CHEAT! That's the only way to ensure your success. Anything else is a gamble towards a debt you pay off with your health. I know it, and I took a chance. That doesn't make it alright, but it was at least educational. I have no intention of doing it again, not even at this same restaurant, especially after having seen the menu, I now know that there were selections that wouldn't even have required me to cheat... but I did, and I'm over it, and the true moral of my story is...

...never understimate the ANA's ability to find options on a menu anywhere you might go.

Planned cheating, in the end, is really just the food-equivalent of the white lies you tell yourself when you know you're about to be up to no good!! So don't do it! But if, for whatever reason, you're determined to not leave Dixieland without sampling a piece of authentic Buttermilk Pie, be smart and use a condom. ;-)

[Iapetus999]

Re: Planning For Cheats

Looking at the multitude and TYPE of responses here, perhaps this discussion could have taken place in the Low-carb forum.

I didn't get on the Yea or Nay lists????

I get no respect I tell ya.