Confused how to measure veggies and salad

[justineb]

I am in week 3 of induction and have been following strictly but have only lost 2 kg water weight the first 4 days then not lost anything and have even put some on. It occurred to me I may be measuring my veggies wrong.

So question - do I eat 3 cups of salad from the main list or do you count 12-15 carbs worth of salad.

I have been doing the latter and when you eat 12-15 carbs worth of salad it equates to heaps more than 3 cups.

I do eat veges at dinner too usually 1 cup of brocolli and 1 cup of cauliflower as the carbs here keep me under the allowance yet they are more than the 'cup' allowance.

Hope I have made myself clear here.

Otherwise I do drink about 2 litres of water a day and eat plain protein and snack on boiled egg, cheese, and have about 2tbsp of cream for my 2 cups of decaf coffee.

Thanks for any advice. I feel a bit dumb that it is probably an obvious question but I am getting it wrong.

[Georgiana]

Re: Confused how to measure vgies and salad

do I eat 3 cups of salad from the main list or do you count 12-15 carbs worth of salad.

This question comes up often. There are many ways you can eat more than 12 net carbs from vegetables (not necessarily salad).

For example:

-----------------------------------------
Menu #1
1 cup pumpkin [6.94 net carbs]
1 cup jicama [5.07 net carbs]
1 cup cucumbers [3.18 net carbs]
1 oz cream cheese [1.15 net carbs]
2 medium eggs [0.68 net carbs]
8 oz decaf coffee with 1 tbsp heavy cream [1.22 net carbs ---> 0.8 net carbs from coffee and 0.42 from cream]

Total: 18.24 net carbs wit 15.19 net carbs from vegetables
-----------------------------------------
Menu #2
1 cup kale [5.41 net carbs]
1-1/2 cup broccoli [3.64 net carbs]
1 cup mushrooms [1.58 net carbs]
2 cups arugula [0.86 net carbs]
5 cherry tomatoes [2.33 net carbs]
1 tbsp lemon juice [1.22 net carbs]
1 oz cream cheese [1.15 net carbs]
2 medium eggs [0.68 net carbs]
8 oz decaf coffee with 1 tbsp heavy cream [1.22 net carbs]

Total: 18.09 net carbs with 13.82 net carb from vegetables
-----------------------------------------

As you can see, both menus have about the same number of net carbs. However, Menu #1 has 3 cups of vegetables, while Menu #2 has a bit over 6 cups. Personally, I will not tell anyone eating Menu #2 that they are not following Induction properly just because their veggies happened not to fit in 3 cups.

Plus, if you eat, let's say, 3 cups of vegetables very low in carbs, you might be (unnecessarily) cheating yourself of nutrition. 20 net carbs is the level at which almost everyone is able to lose weight, according to Dr. Atkins.

12-15 carbs worth of salad it equates to heaps more than 3 cups.

No need to eat only salad though.

I am in week 3 of induction and have been following strictly but have only lost 2 kg water weight the first 4 days then not lost anything and have even put some on.

How much weight do you have to lose? What are your stats (height, current weight, goal)?

If you post a complete menu, including quantities and net carbs for all foods, we can take a look.

How much water are you drinking?

Are you exercising?

Are you on any medication?

[Elizellen]

Re: Confused how to measure vgies and salad

The veggies question is one that is debated a lot here and on other boards, and the responses seem to fall into 2 differing ones, both of which have supporters here, so it is not a dumb question at all.

Here we go by DANDR where Dr Atkins did stay that for induction we should choose up to 3 cups of vegetables - 2-3 from the 'salad' list (which includes many veggies that are not lettuce, like mushdooms, peppers, celery, etc, etc) and 1 from the 'other' list if we are only having 2 from the 'salad' list. In that case you are eating too much veg as you are eating over the maximum 3 cups.

However many people (even those following DANDR here) have decided that they would prefer to follow the rules on the Atkins company website for veggies and go for eating 12-15 net carbs from any vegetables from the 2 lists. I think this is because they feel that 'no-one ever got fat from eating too many lowcarb vegetables'

Personally I feel that it is no hardship to go 2 weeks sticking to the 'up to 3 cups' rule, then to move to OWL rung 1 and add more vegetables as long as you don't just stick with having 3 cups of lettuce (aka 'chewy water') which has little nutrition and very few carbs.

Try to choose vegetables that have more carbs as otherwise you are restricting yourself in the other carb-containing foods you can eat on induction like eggs, cream, cheese, sweetener if you are trying to follow the rule 'eat no more than 20 net carbs, most of which from your vegetables'. Eating only lettuce would therefore limit your other carbs to about 1 and make induction very hard in my opinion and not the enjoyable experience I found it to be.

[Elizellen]

Re: Confused how to measure vgies and salad

I notice Georgiana was posting at the same time and has explained how you can easily get 12-15 net carbs from your 3 cups if you choose wisely.

Great post, G

For more ideas on how to up your net carbs while sticking to the '3 cup' rule take a look at the latest veggies challenge (link in my signature)

[justineb]

Re: Confused how to measure vgies and salad

thanks for such great answers. It has clarified my question. Elizellen I agree that I will stick to the three cups rule as you say - it is only 2 weeks. I will just be sure I put high enough carbs into those cups to make up my daily allowance.

I must admit I was not aware that you had to limit your 'other' carbs in accordance with the amount of vegies/salad you are having. Glad I learnt that!! Perhaps this may contribute to my slow/no weight loss??

Georgiana here are my stats

Current weight is : 79.5kg (175 pound)
Goal Weight is : 65kg (143 pound)
Height is : 173cm

On a typical day I eat

Breakfast:

2 fried eggs (1.6) 3 slices short cut bacon (.1), or
1 serve Salmon Frittata (1.5), plus
De-caf coffee with 1 tbsp cream (0.8 for cream and up till now I haven't counted the coffe as carbs)

Snack:

1 stick of Mozarella cheese (0.02 on the nutrition panel)
Green Tea

Lunch:

Protein of either chicken or tuna or salmon
Salad made of:
lettuce mix 50g (1.4) (says .07 per 25g on pack)
alfalfa 1 cup (1.3)
mushrooms 1/2cup (1.2)
cucumber 1/2 cup (1.0)
celery stalk (0.8
1/2 small tomato (2.2)
Green Tea

Afternoon snack:

De-caf coffee and cream
about 3 slices of ham, or
sometimes 1/2 an Advantage bar

Dinner:

Protein of meat or chicken
1 cup cauliflower (2.0)
1 cup brocoli (3.2)

after dinner sometimes the other half of the Advantage bar
Green Tea

I do have a big appetite so my protein serves are probably on the bigger side of a normal serving size ( ie size of palm of hand) - I am up through the night with my non-slepping 7 month old baby so I assume the tiredness is increasing my appetite.

I drink at least 2 litres of water

I walk on the treadmill 6 days a week for 30 mins.

So all this said do you see any reason my weight loss is stalled?

My first week I ate Advantage bars about every day so I have actually stopped buying them as I thought they may be stopping the weight loss.

Thanks for looking

[Georgiana]

Re: Confused how to measure vgies and salad

What percentage of your calories is fat?

How many calories are you consuming?

Green Tea

Do you add any sweetener to it?

I do have a big appetite so my protein serves are probably on the bigger side of a normal serving size ( ie size of palm of hand)

Protein should account for approximately 20-30% of our daily calories. Do you consume more than this? Too much protein can interfere with weight loss.

do you see any reason my weight loss is stalled?

Are you losing inches?

A stall is defined as four consecutive weeks without weight loss or loss of inches.

[justineb]

Re: Confused how to measure vgies and salad

Well this is food for thought as I do not count calories or fat. I didn't think I needed to so I don't know.

I don;t use any sweetner in my green tea.

I do feel like I have lost some inches though I have not measured. I think it is more the water loss though as I just feel less bloated. As well I do feel better all round.

[Georgiana]

Re: Confused how to measure vgies and salad

Well this is food for thought as I do not count calories or fat. I didn't think I needed to so I don't know.

You don't "need" to count them, but calories still matter. And fat intake matters too. These numbers are especially important when troubleshooting.

You can create a free account at fitday.com and keep track of your menus there.

I do feel like I have lost some inches though I have not measured.

Take body measurements today and see how those change. Lost inches are a better indicator of fat loss than changes in the number on the scale.

[atkinsgal08]

Re: Confused how to measure vgies and salad

>>However many people (even those following DANDR here) have decided that they would prefer to follow the rules on the Atkins company website for veggies and go for eating 12-15 net carbs from any vegetables from the 2 lists. I think this is because they feel that 'no-one ever got fat from eating too many lowcarb vegetables'>>

As someone who has found that 12-15 net carb from Induction vegetables works well for many people ... I can say that I found this out even before it was quantified on the Atkins.com website!

My reading of Rule #3 of the Rules of Induction in my 2002 DANDR led me to this thinking ALL ON MY OWN!

When I started suggesting to people that I was helping that they up their vegetables ... guess what happened??? If they had been slow in losing, the losing started up again!

I know that many moderators here feel that anything that comes from Atkins.com is not to be trusted, however, this is one clarification that I have found is actually a "good thing".

Keep in mind that Rule #3 says:

"Eat no more than 20 [net] grams of carbohydrates, most of which must come in the form of salad greens and other vegetables."

Yes, the sentence does continue on to talk about the cups rule.

However, the "cups" is a holdover from earlier editions of the book ... from a time when vegetable carbs weren't seen as important as they are now.

I've often wondered how someone who eats just 2 cups of lettuce and 1 cup of another vegetable gets "most" of their daily net carbs from Induction vegetables.

It's funny how this one issue is so contentious ... when the aim of both "sides" seems to be helping people be successful at this wonderful Way of Eating for Life.

[Elizellen]

Re: Confused how to measure vgies and salad

I've often wondered how someone who eats just 2 cups of lettuce and 1 cup of another vegetable gets "most" of their daily net carbs from Induction vegetables.

Me too!
That is why I always suggest people choose other veggies from the 'salad veg' list and not only lettuce

[Elizellen]

Re: Confused how to measure vgies and salad

As someone who has found that 12-15 net carb from Induction vegetables works well for many people ... I can say that I found this out even before it was quantified on the Atkins.com website!

My reading of Rule #3 of the Rules of Induction in my 2002 DANDR led me to this thinking ALL ON MY OWN!

sorry, J - I was not intending to get at you or suggest that you have copied the Atkins company rules, I just mentioned them to explain to someone who has not been there where this rule is written down, as it is not in DANDR.

I know that many moderators here feel that anything that comes from Atkins.com is not to be trusted,.

I think you have the wrong impression here, as I have never seen any of the moderators saying anything like that.

however, this is one clarification that I have found is actually a "good thing".

It's funny how this one issue is so contentious ... when the aim of both "sides" seems to be helping people be successful at this wonderful Way of Eating for Life

I agree - it is odd how some people seem to need to 'fight' over it. There are several other items proposed as being good for induction around the boards and on the Atkins company website that I could and would argue over - veggies are a YMMV situation in my opinion.

I was just trying to clarify for the original poster how it is possible to stick to the 3-cup rule for induction.

[Georgiana]

Re: Confused how to measure vgies and salad

has explained how you can easily get 12-15 net carbs from your 3 cups if you choose wisely

My post shows that it is possible to eat 12-15 net carbs from 3 cups of vegetables, but I have not "explained how" or even thought that it was "easy".

So what in my reply makes you believe I "explained how one can easily" fit 12-15 net carbs in 3 cups?

[atkinsgal08]

Re: Confused how to measure veggies and salad

>>I think you have the wrong impression here, as I have never seen any of the moderators saying anything like that.>>

It's been a very clear impression I've gotten ... there are moderators who "badmouth" Atkins.com (even if it's out of context) ... rather than saying nothing at all.

It's as if no good advice can come from them ... ever.

That's been my reading.

I could be wrong though.

[Elizellen]

Re: Confused how to measure vgies and salad

My post shows that it is possible to eat 12-15 net carbs from 3 cups of vegetables, but I have not "explained how" or even thought that it was "easy".

So what in my reply makes you believe I "explained how one can easily" fit 12-15 net carbs in 3 cups?

I was just commenting on your suggested vegetables in menu #1 which showed how one could get 12-15 net carbs from 3 cups of induction vegetables, Georgiana

Menu #1
1 cup pumpkin [6.94 net carbs]
1 cup jicama [5.07 net carbs]
1 cup cucumbers [3.18 net carbs]

15.19 net carbs from vegetables

I read that as proving that it is possible to get to that number even with only 3 cups, so means someone CAN fulfill both the 'up to 3 cups' as well as the '12-15 net carbs'

I am sorry if that was not your intention in posting it.

[Georgiana]

Re: Confused how to measure vgies and salad

I read that as proving that it is possible to get to that number even with only 3 cups, so means someone CAN fulfill both the 'up to 3 cups' as well as the '12-15 net carbs'

Possible, yes. But I never suggested it is easy.

Fitting less than 12-15 net carbs of vegetables in 3 cups -- that is what I consider easy!