No sugar EVER???

[Esdios]

The holier than thou attitude of of those who do give up something is one of the very reason most people won't even considder doing it. It doesn't matter if it is processed sugar, meat, cigarette or anything else. This attitude makes people look pretensious, snobbish an self righteous, and moderate people following a similar path tend to rebel against it. This isn't to say you shouldn't feel proud about giving it up, you should, it is a hard thing to do, albeit I doubt necessary. The other reason it is unrealist for most people to give it up is they are not willing to sacrifice the things they love forever more. It doesn't matter how many alternatives you provide, you simply aren't going to change human nature, and even if you could you will certainly have to fight a war against industry and marketing you won't win in this lifetime.

Never said I was holier than anybody! And I think you are out of line calling me "pretensious, snobbish an self righteous" I just said that it can be done and I am proof of that---so who is acting holier than who here---you are not all knowing and just because you aren't capable of doing something doesn't make that true for the rest of humanity! If it is unrealistic because you are not willing then just say that--that to you it is unrealistic...but it definatley can be done your reality is just obvioulsy differnt than mine! Personally I have no desire to even attempt to "change human nature" as you put it , quite frankly I could care less what you choose to eat or not eat, but don't tell me it can't be done because I have already proven you wrong!

Considdering I made no refference to you, the description must be pretty accurate of you or one you hear often enough relating to you to make you this upset. It is amazing how many holier than thou people actually say, "I never said I was holier than thou." Of course the phrase

--As far as I've been able to tell I have my feet firmly place in reality!

is pretty self righteous if you ask me.

[Esdios]

Why does our attitude upset you to the point of coming across just as snobbish as us? I'm not out to win any war - not even the one you're attempting to start. What gives?

I am not starting a war here, I am telling you plain and simple the attitude you project by the statement you made is a major turn off to people and one they rebel against. it is human nature, that is why it is unrealistic for most people to do it. It doesn't matter if you give up processed sugar, alcohol or cigarette, as soon as you tell people I did it and therefore you can do it, a fair number of the people who are merely trying to cut back will tell you to go to **** and stop trying even to cut back. This is human nature and why it is unrealistic for most people. If you take it as a jab against you fine, it actually wasn't anything personal.

[Perry]

Why does our attitude upset you to the point of coming across just as snobbish as us? I'm not out to win any war - not even the one you're attempting to start. What gives?

I am not starting a war here, I am telling you plain and simple the attitude you project by the statement you made is a major turn off to people and one they rebel against. it is human nature, that is why it is unrealistic for most people to do it. It doesn't matter if you give up processed sugar, alcohol or cigarette, as soon as you tell people I did it and therefore you can do it, a fair number of the people who are merely trying to cut back will tell you to go to **** and stop trying even to cut back. This is human nature and why it is unrealistic for most people. If you take it as a jab against you fine, it actually wasn't anything personal.

Who are these people rebelling? And why are you continuing with it?

[Esdios]

The continuance is simply answering your question, Perry. If you want to know who these people are look to the number of people who go to this and any other support groups and then never come back, many people get upset with statement like this

It is very realistic to expect people to eliminate processed sugar from their diet - if they are doing Atkins. Either you eliminate it or the diet fails. Simple concept.

People can give it up for a while but it very unrealistic to think most are willing to give it up forever, it goes against human nature to give up the things they have always loved especially food. It is realistic that most people who continue this way of life won't eat it often or only in small quantaties, but to expect that most of them will give it up altogether isn't realistic. They see people like you who look like they're repsectable group members saying things like this and they become dismayed, despondant, angry and don't want anything to do with group or this way of life especially since you have put it in terms of diet and not a life style a lot of them go out and eat sweets to comfort themselves after this type of disapointment. It is human nature. If you don't think it is so ask any smoker how many times they go out and smoke a cigarette just because someone told them they should give it up.

[Perry]

For those people I have one comment... You might be better off on the South Beach diet. Don't come to Atkins support if you don't want Atkins answers. Simple.

And, if you smoke, please stop. It's been proven to cause cancer in human beings.

[Esdios]

For those people I have one comment... You might be better off on the South Beach diet. Don't come to Atkins support if you don't want Atkins answers. Simple.

And, if you smoke, please stop. It's been proven to cause cancer in human beings.

You are almost there Perry, suggesting south beach is a good suggestion for those people, but the second part gives people cause to think we are arrogant SOB's more concerned with pushing atkins rathers than trying to help someone. I have read a lot of your advice and think much of it good and caring but some of it comes off really bad, I am sure some of mine over the years has too, but if I were someone unsure about this WOL and coming here for the first time I think most people would have a hard time accepting that advice.


BTW smoke doesn't just hurt humans, I worked in a pet hospital for a while and can say people don't quite get why their champion bred dog can't breath or give a decent litter of pups.[/quote]

[leslie0021]

healthy fat is as much a misnomer as healthy water.

Ooooh, no....sorry, but hey...thanks for playing.

Olive oil, or grapeseed oil are healthy fats.

Hydrogenated fat, like you find in the evil Skippy creamy peanut butter, is very VERY unhealthy fat.

Some of us may come off as elitist....but some of us also come off as Mandarkian uber-intellectuals.

I think it's safe to say that most ADBB members find these arguements either funny (I do) or boring, and move along to another thread. We have so many members, I don't think that we lose too many when we say "our way, or the highway". We have plenty of kumbaya love going on here. All are welcome.

[leslie0021]

And, no...you shouldn't ever eat sugar. It's poison. Will I still eat it? Sometimes, yes....and I'll still drink wine. And, coffee too. (see our other thread on Starbucks).

But, just because I'll eat it, doesn't mean it's not poison with NO redeeming qualities. I sometimes drive 75 miles per hour too. Generally after my coffee...(NEVER after the wine). We all do things we shouldn't (human nature is a bit%*) but it does not negate the fact that sugar is legal heroin, produced en masse to make corporations billions of dollars and keep our country fat and high.

[pbear]

IMO it would be excessively silly for the successful Atkineers on this forum to post wishy-washy, "do this only if you really, REALLY feel like it and you'll be just fine!" Atkins advice. The rules are the rules. Follow them, tweak them, break them, it's all up to the individuals; but don't pretend that all the rules are "just suggestions".

As Dr. Phil says, you either get it or you don't. If someone doesn't get Atkins, they might think about going and trying "get" something else rather than undermine a board that is INTENDED for Atkins support.

[MotherOfGizmo]

:clapping Thank you Perry, Leslie and Pbear! :clapping

[Esdios]

healthy fat is as much a misnomer as healthy water.

Ooooh, no....sorry, but hey...thanks for playing.

Olive oil, or grapeseed oil are healthy fats.

Actually they are neither healthy nor unhealthy they are simply fats. If we could get the nutritional benefits they have to offer in no other way I might give in to the healthy fat notion but in fact we can get the same nutritional gain from other sources so they simply remain as plain fat. Fat is an essential part of our diet, some are worse for us than others, but the health factors relating to fat are more about quantity and impurity.

[book]

Esdios, again about the sugar, we care about peoples' health and their feelings of well-being, and having found how much better we feel with sugar out of our lives it is understandable that we would 'preach' it. I assume when persons come to the group and ask questions they want answers and information and are more receptive to them, very different from the random person. Yes if I told my workmate, 'hey, that cookie you are eating contains lots of poisonous sugar and you are on your way to diabetes' yes, she might be upset and eat even more cookies. But if someone comes HERE asking if they should eat sugar, I am going to give them 1) the truth and 2) alternatives to sugar, and pretty darn yummy sounding ones at that. I agree people care about food. I care about food, actually more now since I take the time to cut up and dress up strawberries instead of stuffing down a Ding Dong.

It isn't unrealistic or pretentious, it is caring and responsible. Why you feel the need to paint it as you do I have no idea....

book

[not2late]

Actually they are neither healthy nor unhealthy they are simply fats. If we could get the nutritional benefits they have to offer in no other way I might give in to the healthy fat notion but in fact we can get the same nutritional gain from other sources so they simply remain as plain fat. Fat is an essential part of our diet, some are worse for us than others, but the health factors relating to fat are more about quantity and impurity.

Omega 3 fats are nutritionally beneficial. They only way we can get them is by eating foods rich in Omega 3s. They have been proven to significantly improve our cholesterol----something other fats have not been shown to do.

[leslie0021]

Actually they are neither healthy nor unhealthy they are simply fats.

This it totally and completely incorrect. Anyone reading this post, please educate yourself. There is a wealth of information on the internet about the difference between healthy and unhealthy fats. The healthy fats (Omegas, olive, grapeseed, canola oil, etc.) offer a tremendous amount of health benefits, while the unhealthy ones (transfats, hydrogenated, etc) can cause problems when consumed long term.

[Esdios]

Leslie: this is where you are getting it wrong there is fat and unhealthy fat. If there were such a thing as a healthy fat you could consume all of it you want and have no problems what so ever. There isn't a fat out there you can overuse with no problems.