I thought........

[nomorekugel]

That during induction that eating 20 carbs was having 2 cups of salad and 1 cup of other acceptible vegetables. Hello!!!!!!!!!! After READING like I should have all along, I've been having way less than the 20 maximum of carbs. So does this mean that I can have more veggies now, not to exceed 25 carbs for the first two weeks of Rung 1?

[Elizellen]

Re: I thought........

For rung one you need to add 5 net carbs so if you were having an average of 10 carbs on induction you now can have 15 carbs.

[Brook]

Re: I thought........

I respectfully disagree. The "cups" rule was a general guideline given by Dr. Atkins because the vast majority of people didn't have a food scale and/or were severly under estimating the amounts they were eating, so the "cups" rule kept them in check. - No, I'm not pulling that out of my hat - that came from the Atkins Center back in the day when Dr. Atkins was still around running things. I know cuz I called them and asked. If they had told me that in the last year and a half, I'd have been loathe to trust them, but they were pretty right-on with Dr. Atkins back then and I trusted them. LOL

If you have a scale or measure your food pretty accurately so that you can track it via fitday, for example, get to eating those veggies! I'd add in 5-10 grams and stick there for the next couple of weeks at least to see how you do, but I wouldn't stay under 20 grams.

JMHO
~Brook

[Elizellen]

Re: I thought........

I thought the '5 carbs' extra on the rungs was to test if we would pass our CCLL by adding more carbs.
I know it is unlikely that anyone would have a CCLL of under 20, but upping carbs by 10 is not recommended in DANDR till reaching premaintenance as far as my memory goes (no book here at work)

[Brook]

Re: I thought........

True enough, however, it also tells us to start with 20 grams, not 10, not 5, but 20 and the recommendation is to stay between 15 and 20 grams during induction. It's not a case of less is better - but the <20 grams is supposed to be a baseline.

You're right though- upping by 10 isn't recommended until premaintenance, but all of the steps listed also assume you're starting right around 20.

[cranberry]

Re: I thought........

I don't recall the book saying to keep it 15-20 grams.. all I remember is to keep it under 20. My average was 10-15 on induction. Where might I find that info in the book? Thanks

[Brook]

Re: I thought........

Again, the book says to keep it under 20, no specific range given - but there's a reason that the number 20 is given and not 10. However in interviews and articles I've seen and read, they say to keep it upwards of 15 grams a day - and that's also what the Atkins Center told me when I talked to them back in the day when Dr. Atkins was still runnin' things. I'll add that my family endocrinologist & doctor say the same thing - not that that means beans to anyone but me. LOL

Hope that clears up why I said what I said.
~Brook

[not2late]

Re: I thought........

If you look at the CCLL- metabolic resistance chart in OWL Chapter 14, the upper limit for the high metabolic resistance folks is 15 net carbs. Folks with average resistance the range is 15 to 40 net carbs. So between 15-20 nets is what you should be going for during Induction. Personally, I don't think if you average 13 net carbs during Induction it will make a big difference because unless you are very careful in measuring and weighing your food, you probably underestimate your daily carbs by 2-5 net carbs.

This is why I harp on the "I only eat lettuce" eaters in the Induction forums and try to get them to eat the other veggies on the veggie lists. (Pet-peeve: it gets really frustrating to see the posts in the EI forum asking if a non-lettuce veggie is okay to eat) If you pick the right veggies, you'll easily eat at least 10 veggie carbs, which leaves 10 carbs for the incidental carb foods like eggs, cream, etc. But if you limit yourself to lettuce or raw spinach lots of luck getting above 5 net carbs with three cups of that daily. If you look at Loonatika's stickie above, I don't know how many people would be able to eat 5 net carbs worth of raw lettuce or raw spinach in one day---cows maybe, but not people.

[Brook]

Re: I thought........

Have I mentioned how much I love/hate when Megs words stuff so much more thoroughly and eloquently than I do? LOL

Thank you!

::ff to go get some much needed sleep::::

[2big4mysize]

Re: I thought........

Dr Atkins actually thought we'd be eating 15-20 net carbs on induction cause he wrote when explaining metabolic resistance that he selected that number 15-20 grams because 95% of the people doing his plan would lose weight in the 14 days..... and that other 5% would need his metabolically resistant chapter.

But don't forget there are other sources of carbs besides those 3 cups of veggies in our diet like eggs, cheese, spices, salad dressings,Splenda packets, just to mane a few.

Brook is adressing the fact that there are a few body parts like red blood cells, parts of the retina and an area of the brain that can only burn sugar because they lack mitochondria which is the powerhouse in the cells that convert fatty acids to energy. When we don't supply them with the sugar they need they slow down or the body looks elsewhere for this sugar. our livers make sugars from the waste hydrocarbons of carb burning, from fracturing certain amino acids from proteins be they dietary or body, and from the glycerol hydrocarbon that is the backbone of fats. And being deficent in your fuels for those areas could be a health hazard and an impairment to weight loss.

Dr Atkins and the Atkins center were very clear that you start adding 5 net carbs to where ever you did your induction level carbs but again they assumed eating the induction foods you were between 15-20. Dr Atkins didn't invision anybody after he changed his plan from the orginal 1972 plan to allow for more carbs though those very healthy veggies for any one to pick only the leafy green stuff not eat any eggs or cheese and be in single digit carbs.
Check your cazrb count on www.fitday.com and see if infact it is as low as you think while you test out the first rung of OWL and rmember there is a typo in DANDR and it should be new foods to you not new food groups in that eat no more then 3 times the first week.

Happy low carbing

[cranberry]

Re: I thought........

I just wanted to know if it states that range in the book so that I could refer to the section and read what is said on the topic. Anyway, given the responses, I suspect it does not say so explicitly in the book (not that I don't understand and believe 15-20 is reasonable and sensible. I ask simply because I am a reference person). Thanks for the input, all... good info to know

[nomorekugel]

Re: I thought........

thank you all for the weatlh of information! It makes much more sense to me now!