Finding CCL in a particular rung

[DesertRain]

Pleeeeeeease forgive me as I have read the book several times and have gone through every sticky on here trying to make this make sense. I want to move on but I feel like it's very mentally challenging for me right now (I'm going through such a stressful moment in my life). So I wanna make sure I am doing this the right way. Is it possible to stay in one rung just to find CCL. For example, say I'm on rung 1, can I just continue to add 5 grams each week until I find my CCL. I know that suggests that I eat plenty of veggies, the thing is, I love veggies--and I like the ones with a higher carb content. Can I do that while I discover what veggies my body agrees/disagrees with....and then later if I am able to find out my CCL, use that to determine how much of each additional rung I can have by replacing the extra veggies with something else?
Gosh, I hope this make sense.

Let me rephrase:
I'm on rung 1 veggies.
I eat induction foods and increase veggies by 5 g weekly until I find CCL.
I find out my CCL is 40
Can I take out 5 grams of veggies and replace with 5 grams nuts one week?
If so, can I take out 10 grams veggies and replace with 10 grams nuts/seed the following week?
If so, can I take out 10 grams veggies and replace with 5 nuts/seed and 5 berries the following week?
...all so long as I maintain my CCL of 40?

Sorry to confuse anyone. I just don't want to make a mistake.

[Greeneggs&ham]

Re: Finding CCL in a particular rung

This is a fantastic question and I admit I am sticking with Induction until I am certain I know the correct path to take from here. I've seen other posts on this issue, but I'm still wondering too.

How long do we stay on each rung? Seems like it could take several weeks on each to determine which specific foods in each group are okay and how many grams I can consume! Frankly, it sounds mind-boggling when compared to the rules of Induction!

Hopefully we both get an explanation that finally clicks for each of us.

[DesertRain]

Re: Finding CCL in a particular rung

Ahh, Eric, thank you for making me feel like I'm not alone in this abyss of new found confusion!

[not2late]

Re: Finding CCL in a particular rung

Pleeeeeeease forgive me as I have read the book several times and have gone through every sticky on here trying to make this make sense. I want to move on but I feel like it's very mentally challenging for me right now (I'm going through such a stressful moment in my life). So I wanna make sure I am doing this the right way. Is it possible to stay in one rung just to find CCL. For example, say I'm on rung 1, can I just continue to add 5 grams each week until I find my CCL. I know that suggests that I eat plenty of veggies, the thing is, I love veggies--and I like the ones with a higher carb content. Can I do that while I discover what veggies my body agrees/disagrees with....and then later if I am able to find out my CCL, use that to determine how much of each additional rung I can have by replacing the extra veggies with something else?
Gosh, I hope this make sense.

Yes, you can do that if you choose. You'll have to be really creative with your veggies (because if you aren't you'll be eating a large volume of vegetables!)

Let me rephrase:
I'm on rung 1 veggies.
I eat induction foods and increase veggies by 5 g weekly until I find CCL.
I find out my CCL is 40
Can I take out 5 grams of veggies and replace with 5 grams nuts one week?

Yes, you can do it that way. If you've found your CCLL, you may climb the OWL rungs by swapping 5 net carbs of your CCLL carbs with an OWL Rung food. For example, your CCLL is 40 and you want to move to Rung 4. You may use 5 net carbs to add 5 net carbs of a Rung 4 food, like strawberries or cantaloupe.

By the way, the amount of nuts is 1 ounce during OWL, not 5 net carbs. According to Dr. Atkins, all nuts are limited to 1 ounce, except cashews which are limited to 1/2 ounce, during OWL (see the Power of 5 listing in the book)

If so, can I take out 10 grams veggies and replace with 10 grams nuts/seed the following week?

Try to reserve 10 net carb amounts for Pre-Maintenance, especially with the foods above Rung 1. The higher you go on the carb ladder, the higher glycemic index the foods have, in general. So need to watch what you add and how you add it.

Additionally, during OWL, you are still training yourself into adopting good eating habits. If you read through the forum, you'll see some OWLers still have portion control issues (I know I did). The trigger foods vary person to person. For example, plenty of people have issues with nuts and seeds in regards to portion control. Others have issues with fruits. OWL is an important (perhaps THE most important) phase of the Diet because you learn about how your body reacts to individual foods. So be careful and don't try to rush things----especially with the higher glycemic index foods on the ladder.

If so, can I take out 10 grams veggies and replace with 5 nuts/seed and 5 berries the following week?
...all so long as I maintain my CCL of 40?

You have a minimum daily vegetable intake of 3 cups of Induction veggies---those 3 cups stay with you the rest of your Atkins. The Rung 1 vegetable allotment is helpful to eat daily in order to get the fiber grams and to add variety to your meals. The higher you go on the ladder, the lower the amount of fiber you get per 5 net carb serving. For example, 1/4 cup blueberries has about 5 net carbs and about 1 gram of fiber. Compare that with 1/2 cup pumpkin puree which has about 5 net carbs but 4 grams of fiber.

So you're looking at a balance of your carbs, fats, and proteins but you should also be aware of a balance of other nutrients like fiber.

[chinadoll]

Re: Finding CCL in a particular rung

I asked a similar question last week and got some good answers too. Look in OWL for ACE reached or just a problem with rung There were some good explanation there too.

[DesertRain]

Re: Finding CCL in a particular rung

Not2late....I gotta say THANK YOU. I actually get it now! I feel like I was learning calculus for the first time.....in greek! But it makes sense!
Chinadoll, thanks I will definitely check that out!
Hope you guys had a wonderful holiday weekend!

[Greeneggs&ham]

Re: Finding CCL in a particular rung

Okay. So to make sure I got this correctly, let me know if my plan moving forward would work as well. (I doubt I like veggies as much as Jane, so I'll be eager to move along the ladder!):
____________________________

Week1 : Add 5 carbs to my Induction level intake (which has been less than 20 by chance, not design) by adding veggies from the 1st Rung.

if I continue to lose weight (any amount),

Week 2: In addition to the carb intake from last week (continuing to get those carbs from salad and 1st Rung veggies), I add another 5 carbs from items in Rung 2.

If I continue to lose weight (any amount),

Week 3: In addition to the carb intake from week 2 (with 5 carbs from Rung 1 veggies and 5 carbs from Rung 2 dairy) while adding 5 additional carbs from Rung 3.

And so I continue through each week, adding another rung and another net 5 carbs from that rung while keeping the other carbs in my diet from their respective rungs and the Induction level.

If at some week, I do not lose weight. I take the following week to remove the carbs from the latest rung, but replace them with carbs from a previous rung (so that I am now consuming those 5 added net carbs from an earlier rung or rungs).

If I still do not lose weight, I reduce the carb count by 5. I now eat the 10 total added carbs since Induction, but choose from any combination of earlier rungs.

If I DO lose weight, I can guess that my CCLL is roughly that total number of carbs. In future weeks, I will add another rung, but divide my total current carb intake amongst my new carb choices. (If at some point, I do not lose weight on this number of carbs, I remove food items from the latest rung to see if that is a problem rung. If yes, I may skip that rung and try my luck at the next.)

If I do NOT lose weight, I change some of the foods from the earlier rungs to see if my stall is due to a particular item rather than a carb total or a general rung. (Future rungs can be added only after I am sure of my CCLL and the foods that cause a stall.)

Hopefully by this point I have determined a general number of carbs for my CCLL, and can begin adding rungs slowly without adding carbs. From here forward, I may be moving through rungs over several weeks instead of one week per rung in order to determine the right mix of carbs that allows me to lose weight while maintaining a total net carb intake below the pre-determined CCLL.
______________________________

(OK, so I just re-read all this and have confused myself again! Hopefully a "wise OWL" will be able to make sense of it and let me know if it is sound logic or not!)

*** Now the only question I have from Meg's earlier post is in regards to Pre-Maintenance carbs. She mentioned something about reserving 10 net carbs for Pre-Maintenance. While that stage is probably a long way off for me, can someone please expand on that? Is the intention to find your CCLL and then consume 10 less carbs through the rest of OWL?

Sorry for the run-on post, but I am still struggling with how to move forward. I've come to the end of my regular Induction with a 16 pound loss, but I plan to stick to extended induction until either I reach about 240, or fully understand the next step!

HOOT!

[Elizellen]

Re: Finding CCL in a particular rung

Your précis of climbing the OWL ladder looks good to me, Eric

As to the 10 carbs on premaintenance, if you have not reached your CCLL by the time you get to the top of the OWL ladder then you can continue to add 10 net carbs to your current carb intake starting again with the lowest OWL rungs till you reach your CCLL.

[SunnySmile501]

Re: Finding CCL in a particular rung

I found out quickly by going up the ladder that my CCLL was quite low and I had intolerance and control issues with most everything but the veggies in the lower rungs, so I have lived the last two years as though I am still on rung 1 and only eat nuts and fruits very occasionally. I have only had legumes a handful of times in the last two years, and when I had just a small amount the other day, I jumped up three pounds and it hasn't come off yet.

I love veggies, so it is okay for the most part. I love fruit, cheese and beans, but I love my new slimness and good health more. If I stay the course, maybe my metabolism will heal enough that I can indulge in those healthy foods a bit more without consequences in the future. One can always hope!

Sunny!

[Kansas Deb]

Re: Finding CCL in a particular rung

Great post and some terrific answers. I think a lot of people have difficulty with going up the rungs. I know I am having a hard time. I am back at induction levels of carbs with the addition of 1/4 cup frozen blueberries in a OMM for breakfast or sometimes a tablespoon of coarse ground pecans instead of the blueberries. I am only dropping about 2 pounds a month and have 20 more pounds to lose. I am thinking my CCLL must be around 30 grams.