how about fitday?

[redfoxglove]

After plugging in to fitday I saw that it came up with carb count a lot higher than what I had calculated based on numbers in the back of DANDR. This only matters b/c of finding my CCL, my carb tolerance number. B/c I am losing. Have not weighed since the 23rd and will not weigh again til the 4th b/c of TOM, but I can tell I'm losing.

What have some of you experienced OWLrs to suggest?

I don't have time today to really analyze my initial figures against fitday. And I'm fairly confident that I was being pretty accurate, according to what it says in the DANDR.

What has been your experience with fitday? Lots of people seem to use and quote it. I remember a few years back when at Curves we got a new scale and sudddenly I was actually 6 pounds heavier due to the new more accurate scale. I just rolled with it. But in this case I need to have a reference source that is consistent, one that I can use reliably over time. Should it be DANDR, or fitday?

According to DANDR in my 2nd week of Induction I was taking in an average of 19g. With OWL on the 22nd I upped my grams and by DANDR numbers was averaging 24g. But by fitday I'm averaging 30g. Some days it's a wide margin, like on one day I calculated by DANDR I'd had 22.5g, and fitday said 37.6g; another day 15.9g/DANDR 30.3/fitday.

Again, not a problelm, I'm still losing. I just want to know what my number is.

Some specific questions, for purposes of carb count I record the pre-cooked amounts of everything, ie 4 oz mushrooms which I know cooks down, right?. Some of the fitday choices offer a raw or a cooked version. Which should I use. And am I correct in using pre-cooked amounts?

Any insights, ideas or suggestions would be helpful and appreciated.

[liv]

Re: how about fitday?

If you want to use fitday that is up to you. Some people like it others don't. Whatever works for you is best. On OWL you do have keep a close tab on those carbs so that you can find your limit.

I always use precooked amounts. I find that that works best. Sometimes when you add cooked or prepared items fitday automatically assume that you added something to it - like salt or margarine or something - so then the numbers can get wrong.


Also fitday does not give you net carb so that may account for the discrepancy you are seeing. You should go into fitday set you fiber goals and you will see the fiber count on the bottom of the page. So on my fitday it may say 17 for carbs but then it says 4 for fiber so I just do a quick math in my head to figure out I have consumed 13 net carbs so far that day.

[redfoxglove]

Re: how about fitday?

Thanks for the insights. It's helpful for me in evaluating whether to stick with fitday or go the old fashioned route. Fitday does offer some benefits that you don't get otherwise.

Yes, I adjusted for the fiber count by subtracting as you suggest.

The main concern is finding the number. I think I'll try to move ahead just as I am doing for now, and with more information to work with, i.e. more than just one week of OWL, and not on TOM, things will become more clear. Fitday looks like a useful tool. I just need to evaluate whether it's the tool for me.

Thanks.

[Kellen]

Re: how about fitday?

I think the fitday allows you to be more specific and accurate, although it is a bit time consuming. There may be other programs out there, but I haven't pursued finding them.

I had the same problem at first, regarding the fiber/net carb thing. At first i freaked too...then, once I underestood about the subtracting the fiber, it became(still is) a real challenge to get get the full 12 to 15 NET carbs. (and more if you're OWL)

Sometimes I just don't have time, or rebel against the tedium of entering every little thing.... It does get easier as you go along, as you have foods in "RECENT FOODS" that you can just click and enter, and change the quantity if you need too. I like it that you can tally things up, and have something else do the math.

Last week i didn't do my fitday at all, and just hoped I was doing it about right, from using the knowledge I'd gained as a yardstick. I'm going back to it this week, and I'm going to try entering planned veggies first this week, and work on higher 'dollar' carbs. Too often i got to the last meal of the day, trying to pack carbs in, or finding that I'd used up my cheese and sour cream allotment for the day. This would make me sad.

Something that confuses and irks me, (slight hijack here) is the '2 cups salad veggies, + 1 cup of other veggies' estimation, that DANDR talks about. This can only be a ball park estimate, because of the variances veggie carb content, and I found that two cups of salad spiked with some cukes, peppers & tomato, and a cup of broccoli still didn't come NEAR my needed amount of net carbs. ( I DO like my lettuce, but it's not nearly high enough in carbs) Another gripe is the induction menu in DANDR, that includes zuchinni nut bread (from an Atkins recipe) yet we aren't supposed to have nuts of grains till later in OWL. I don't get it. Especially when the directive is always "to follow your DANDR" but it contains conflicting and or incomplete information.(about pretty important stuff.)

Oh, and it's definately easier to weigh foods before cooking, but then the carb count increases once it's cooked (I'm guessing because the fiber has broken down in the cooking, and more of the food is usable) so I'm unclear how to allow for that...

In the end, it seems for me, that even if things go over or under a bit from day to day, the weight still is coming off. (I know, that's probably heresy) I figure it just keeps my metabolism guessing a little

[sadie147]

Re: how about fitday?

a very good online carb counter is calorieking.com they have amounts for all foods as well as for most fast foods and packaged foods.

A good online food dairly f you don't like fitday is thedailyplate.com it has a far more comprehensive food and exercise database than fitday and offers great charts and graphs and you can edit any food as well as enter your own meals and recipes. I use this one however I will say the downside of it is anyone can edit the foods, so you need to keep your eye on the nutritional values, sometimes i compare them to calorieking if i don't think they're right..if they're not i correct them myself.

Something that confuses and irks me, (slight hijack here) is the '2 cups salad veggies, + 1 cup of other veggies' estimation, that DANDR talks about. This can only be a ball park estimate, because of the variances veggie carb content, and I found that two cups of salad spiked with some cukes, peppers & tomato, and a cup of broccoli still didn't come NEAR my needed amount of net carbs. ( I DO like my lettuce, but it's not nearly high enough in carbs) Another gripe is the induction menu in DANDR, that includes zuchinni nut bread (from an Atkins recipe) yet we aren't supposed to have nuts of grains till later in OWL. I don't get it. Especially when the directive is always "to follow your DANDR" but it contains conflicting and or incomplete information.(about pretty important stuff.)

What version of DANDR do you have? This site goes by the 2002 version. The newer versions were published after Dr. Atkins death, and are most likely similar to the atkins.com site which now pushes Atkins products and adds foods that were never allowed in his version of the diet.

[MsManners]

Re: how about fitday?

I LOVE FitDay. BUT I put in everything as a custom food that way I can read right off the label what the numbers are rather than go by the generic numbers on FitDay.

I do plan what I eat based on the numbers, if I eat all my carbs by lunch...it is a meat only dinner. If I have't got enough fats, I know that I need to "fat up" at dinner. PLUS it helps me monitor the calories to excercise ratio.

All good!
Alex

[Kellen]

Re: how about fitday?

Hi Sadie,

i do have the 2002 DANDR. It reads copyright 1992,1999, 2002. Says 'completely updated, the must-have new editio!' and is called Dr. Atkins NEW Diet Revolution.

And onpage 235 of mt paperback edition, under the section "A regimen to jump-start weight loss" and specifically. in the section "one week induction menu" it has a slice of zuchhini nut bread, with the recipe on 398, containing Atkins bake mix, and ground almonds. I can't wait to try it when I get to that rung, but it's included as an induction food.

The Atkins.com site, proper, markets Atkins products, but their talk-board itself does not advocate the use of the products. That board is also very firm on the '12-15 grams of net carbs from veggies' interpretation, and tell you to go by the book, as this board usually does. The book does say to get "most" of the carbs from veggies. Which is of course about right. But it also says the 2cup/1cup rule of thumb, which doesn't neccessarily come close to reconciling.

This board seems to give advice for both the '2 cups salad, and one cup other veggies' rule, as well as the 12-15 net veggie carbs, and as does the book. The way I'm seeing it, the rule of thumb approach is handy when one is too busy to bother with weighing/counting, but pretty looseygoosey if you are needing to make sure you either are getting enough or not getting too much. When I go to OWL (which I plan to do next week) I will have to be vigilant.

I can't even figure why that zucchini bread is in the induction menu.

I'll check out the other tracker possibilities. Thanks for that! So really, I'm curious, how do you reconcile the inconsistancy I mentioned? (For Sadie or ANYONE?)

[sadie147]

Re: how about fitday?

I do see what you are saying. If you had higher carb veggies for your 1 cup, like pumpkin etc and peppers and veggies other than lettuces were in place of your lettuce that would help. I am not a big lettuce person, so my veggies usually did not include such low carb veggies, so I didn'thave too much of an issue. Though I didn't concentrate as much on the 12-15 rule, I had to struggle tokeep my veggie in take up as they're not my favourite foods.

maybe someone else can come up with a better answer. sorry i can't explain that one.

also i have no idea either why that recipe is in there. it's been 4years since i've read dandr, and personally don't remember that. maybe it's a misprint?

guess my answer isn't very helpful .sorry lol.

[redfoxglove]

Re: how about fitday?

Yes, I too thought the zucchini bread was on induction b/c of what it says in DANDR. But then I read on the board here to only eat what was on the list, so I am waiting to do zucchini bread as one of my carb-raising tests.

As for the skipping around in net carbs per day, I go back to what Dr. Atkins says, I think it's in the Lifetime Maintenance section. He talks about how to be flexible with the plan, let's say you have an event coming up. You cut back for a few days to prepare. Or let's say you went off plan for a few weeks. You go back to Induction for a period until you get the gained weight back off, then you go on to pre-maintenance or maintenance. In my own experiments, I found in Induction that some days I had 12g, one day 24g, one day 32g, the next 15g...but I still kept losing. So my answer to what you've said is, yes, I think it's normal to fluctuate, and it's the average over time that counts the most. In Induction I averaged 19g. Last week in the first week of OWL I averaged 24g, or 30g by fitday. I do think it's the average over time that's going to count the most.

Why do I say this? Because I am assuming that I am doing this for life, not for a dietary period of weeks. And I am assuming the stance that over time and practice I am gaining more and more control over my choices, and the food is not controlling me. I am choosing the food.

12-15 net grams? Where did I get the idea it was 20 net grams? That's what I've been going by! How did I miss that?

Anyway, I do like the idea of using an online carb counter that records my menus every day so I can go back and look. I see a couple of suggestions of other ones that might work so I'll look into it (in my spare time, yuckity yuck)

Right now I am still writing everyhting down in a notebook and giving myself credit for the net grams used in the back of the DANDR. I might try the suggestion of making everything a custom food. And I did find out that it gets a little easier once you have recent foods to refer back to. !!

The key thing is finding the critical carb level, and right now it's not really a problem. I can see where it might be if your weight loss slowed down more than you wanted before you got to pre-maintenance. So I won't worry about it now, I'll just keep working things until I figure out a set of tools that work for me.

Thanks so much for your input, it's really helpful.

[Kellen]

Re: how about fitday?

redfoxglove said "12-15 net grams? Where did I get the idea it was 20 net grams? That's what I've been going by! How did I miss that?"

No worries, you are right; 20 total, but 12-15 should come from veggies. ( I've had some sour-cream overdose days, making up for low carbs from veggies, though.)

It's nice to hear that point of view shared (about the carb count fluctuations.) I do wonder if there's any longer terms ill-effects from fooling around with bllod sugar in the case of a planned cheat. For example, I'm thinking of having a 24 hour Thanksgiving wipe-out (that would be a regular TG meal, and then the day-after breakfast. Then away with any leftover stuffing,gravy and potatoes!) I may feel so physically awful afterwards, that I'll never do it again, and I know most of you would probably say "Don't do it!"

I wasn't worth it to do it for a cookie, but for TG, well, I think it'll be ok. I have total confidence that I will get back on the horse and ride the induction trail again. BUT~ I do wonder if I'd be doing a bad whammy on my pancreas... Maybe some of you have a thought?

yay for you redfoxglove: almost 50 pounds gone. (the pre-Atkins pounds totally count, right?)

[sadie147]

Re: how about fitday?

OK So I'll be the first one to say 'dont do it' .

There is a good chance you will feel crappy if you take an entire day off, and depending on what and how much you eat. and there are really alot of thanksgiving desert recipes that you can't tell from the full sugar ones. Cheesecake and pumpkin pie are my favourites. I just take a regular recipe and change the crust to a nut crust and replace the sugar with sweeteners.

That said, in my maintenance I do take 'meals off' for events. Keep in mind because I am in maintenance, I do not consider having mashed potatoes, or whole grain breads being cheats now as those aren't issue foods for me and i can have them on occaision. I will however treat myself to a desert other than a s/f one, once in a while at a holiday function.

For many people, the problem with cheat days and cheat meals is not getting back on track. 'well i already ate the apple pie so i may as well eat the chocolate etc etc' next thing you know 1 day turns into one week etc.

Usually every year we start a thanksgiving thread in Food and cooking chat, I will start one probably this week since our Canadian thanksgiving is in 2 weeks. Suggestions for others can really be a big help.

[redfoxglove]

Re: how about fitday?

Yeah, I'd have to agree with all that, about not crashing for Thanksgiving. It's not the right choice for me, but a girl's gotta do what a girl's gotta do.

But then, I've been moving away from the huge fatso feast behavior for some years now. I can't stand that bloated feeling. Last year at Turkey day I was on Atkins and I found plenty to eat that was legal. Except for desserts, of course. This year I intend to prepare 3-4 legal desserts. Then if I pig out on one it won't be a huge disaster.

The key to this working for me is to develop legal strategies, not spend my time thinking of ways to cheat myself. That said, I am prone to going off plan here and there, like I did over the weekend.

And yes, the pounds I lost before I got seriously into Atkins do count. 22 of them were lost by the Atkins method. But yeah, I've been regaining my health, I mean focusing on it, since 2004, and started with Curves. I can honestly say that at 52 I enjoy better health than I did in my 40s. Everything we do for ourselves to become whole and healthy counts. You bet.

[HighBloodPressure]

Re: how about fitday?

I LOVE FitDay. BUT I put in everything as a custom food that way I can read right off the label what the numbers are rather than go by the generic numbers on FitDay.

I do plan what I eat based on the numbers, if I eat all my carbs by lunch...it is a meat only dinner. If I have't got enough fats, I know that I need to "fat up" at dinner. PLUS it helps me monitor the calories to excercise ratio.

All good!
Alex

I'm not one who really wants to invest the effort & time to study the "micro" aspect of food consumption & I too find FitDay to be really useful. The one thing I wish they'd do is include blood pressure graphing because the connection between sodium & blood pressure is so obvious that I have to manually input my blood pressure into the "diary" section but it won't graph. I agree pretty much... I LOVE FitDay... and the price was soooooo right.

[msanjelpie]

Re: how about fitday?

I trust fitday over books with listings... especially since I enter the numbers directly off of all the packages of foods that I eat. I just edit the items that fitday already has so it's easier and takes less time.

[ldyj]

Re: how about fitday?

Another suggestion for food tracking (and a darn fun site, too) is SparksPeople.com. You can add recipes, track your carbs, fiber, fat, protein (calories are also counted if you want). You can also track your water consumption and they have an excellent exercise video library and the ability to track your calories expended. I really like the site and use it daily.