Moving to OWL

[PeteinVA]

OWL scares me (I'll admit it!) but I have to start soon. So the idea is to get on the first rung and add 5 carbs a day (25) for the first week? So I pick 5 carbs from the list? (obviosuly).

If I have bigger salads (and pick from the veggie list) and continue everything else the same (possibly smaller meat portions) I should be good right?

Sorry I'm just nervous about changing what I've been doing. And feeling a little bit dumb. I didn't have a glass of wine last night either! hhah

Random question off the subject on counting carbs: Do the stalks of broccoli have a different makeup than the floret? Does frozen spinach have a different count than fresh? Does the salmon skin have a different count than the salmon itself?

Thank you for induldging me as I stuffed a couple of subjects here on one post...

[Georgiana]

Re: OWL Power of 5 - 5 net gram foods

OWL scares me (I'll admit it!) but I have to start soon. So the idea is to get on the first rung and add 5 carbs a day (25) for the first week? So I pick 5 carbs from the list? (obviosuly).

Kudos for deciding to move to OWL, Pete. Yes, you start OWL by adding 5 net carbs of Induction vegetables to your average Induction net carb intake. So, let's say you ate, on average, 17 net carbs during Induction. Then you will add 5 to these and your new carb level will be 22 net carbs.

If I have bigger salads (and pick from the veggie list) and continue everything else the same (possibly smaller meat portions) I should be good right?

Yes, you will be fine doing this. I don't know how much meat you are eating now, but you should not necessarily decrease your meat intake in OWL Rung 1. During all phases of Atkins, protein stays at 30%, and by adding veggies in OWL Rung 1 you will only be adding a few grams (at most) of protein from them. Things change, for example, in OWL Rung 3; if you are eating nuts and getting some protein from them, then you should decrease your protein intake from other sources (e.g. meat, cheese). Also, as you get closer to goal, you will probably start eating less, so portion sizes should decrease if you go by your hunger. But in OWL Rung 1, at the point where you only add 5 net carbs of veggies to your Induction menu, don't sweat it.

Sorry I'm just nervous about changing what I've been doing. And feeling a little bit dumb. I didn't have a glass of wine last night either! hhah

I think many of us were a bit nervous about moving to OWL, but if you follow OWL correctly, it really works --- you get more food variety and you keep losing weight. Can't get better than that!

As for the glass of wine, in over a year and a half at ADBB, I don't remember ever seeing someone planning to have a drink on Induction and ending up not having it. So what you've done is pretty special and shows a lot of discipline. I think you'll soon need to make room in your signature for your goalie award.

Random question off the subject on counting carbs: Do the stalks of broccoli have a different makeup than the floret? Does frozen spinach have a different count than fresh? Does the salmon skin have a different count than the salmon itself?

According to the USDA database, broccoli stalks have the same nutrient values as broccoli flowerets. For salmon, there is more fat in/on the skin than in the meat (in the same amount, let's say, 100 g), but there is no nutritional values computed exclusively for the skin.

I will move your post and mine into a separate thread. I believe you'll get more replies that way.

[Georgiana]

Re: Moving to OWL

Oops! I missed the spinach question. Yes, per 100 grams, frozen spinach has a different nutritional info than raw spinach.

Frozen spinach, unprepared, 100 g: 29 kcal, 0.6 g fat, 4.2 g carbohydrate, 2.9 g dietary fiber, 1.3 g net carbs, 3.6 g protein
Spinach, raw, 100 g: 23 kcal, 0.4 g fat, 3.6 g carbohydrate, 2.2 g dietary fiber, 1.4 g net carbs, 2.9 g protein.

The difference appears mainly because spinach loses some water when frozen. The same thing happens with other veggies.

[RhodeIslander]

Re: Moving to OWL

Pete, I know how you feel, I'm afraid to move from extended induction also. I feel that if I move up yo owl I might not lose, or lose as quick. I have been on extended induction for 3 month's and lost 33 pound's, I know that might sound good to alot of people but I would like to lose a little faster, I only eat between 10 - 15 net carb's a day.So im afraid if I ad more carb's I might not lose much.

[Georgiana]

Re: Moving to OWL

Pete, I know how you feel, I'm afraid to move from extended induction also. I feel that if I move up yo owl I might not lose, or lose as quick. I have been on extended induction for 3 month's and lost 33 pound's, I know that might sound good to alot of people but I would like to lose a little faster, I only eat between 10 - 15 net carb's a day.So im afraid if I ad more carb's I might not lose much.

Congrats for the pounds lost! 33 lbs in 3 months is excellent. I guess many of us want/wanted to lose weight faster, but slowing down at one point is the right thing to do if you want to learn how to maintain your weight. Otherwise you risk throwing yourself into an ugly yo-yo dieting game, which is not only unhealthy for your body, but also mentally tiring. And don't think you'll be so happy with how you look when you get to goal that you'll have no problem maintaining. I bet everyone is thrilled when reaching goal, but from what I've seen on the Board, the Maintenance phase is not as easy as we might mistakenly believe.

By the way, I've seen many people lose just the same or faster in the first rungs of OWL (eating below their CCLL, of course) as they did on Induction. Also, your weight loss rate will naturally slow down as you get closer to your goal, whether you do this by staying on Induction or by enjoying OWL. My advice is to give yourself time to progress through all the phases of the program and make Atkins a way of eating for life, not a weight loss diet.

Here's a suggestion for you guys. Since you both seem to be ready to move to OWL (does that sound pushy? ), why not start a thread in the OWL forum to record your OWL journey? You could chat, vent, etc. there, and I'm sure you will also help others who are afraid to step out of their comfy Induction shoes.

[Georgiana]

Re: Moving to OWL

Adding to what I've said above about adding veggies on OWL. Besides adding more veggies from the Induction Acceptable Foods List, you can also add other low carb, non-starchy vegetables that are not on the list, such as bittermelon, seaweed, various edible flowers, etc. As with any new food you introduce during OWL, you will start by eating it only 3x a week. The way I prefer doing it is not to add a new food in the same week when I am increasing my carbs. That way, if something gives me blood sugar symptoms (or messes up with my weight loss), I can figure out the culprit: either the higher carbs or the new food. If you change too many things at once (carbs, foods), then you won't know what effect each of them has on you.

[RhodeIslander]

Re: Moving to OWL

Thank you for the advice georgiana, sound's good.

[PeteinVA]

Re: Moving to OWL

Thanks Georgianna!, as always. I appreciate the boost of confidence your words always give.

RhodeIslander the odd thing regarding moving from Induction to OWL is for me is actually the new choices and change of routine. I love the restrcition of Induction as I simply know what I'll be eating most of the time. That widening makes me think I may mess it up (on counts, choices).

Well it's going to happen over the next couple of days no doubt. I most likely will just do it with spinach & broccoli and my salads. I'm the kind of person who needs to keep it simple. heh

Thanks for the support.

[RhodeIslander]

Re: Moving to OWL

If i'm eating, let's say 15 nt carb's a day and I move up my nt carb's 5, I will now only be getting 20 carb's a day which is what your allowed on induction,Am I considered on owl, because I went up 5 or do I have to have 25 nt carb's to be considered on owl?

[Georgiana]

Re: Moving to OWL

If i'm eating, let's say 15 nt carb's a day and I move up my nt carb's 5, I will now only be getting 20 carb's a day which is what your allowed on induction,Am I considered on owl, because I went up 5 or do I have to have 25 nt carb's to be considered on owl?

Once you start eating foods that are not on the Induction Acceptable Foods List, you are doing OWL. Similarly, once you eat over your three cups of veggies which you eat during Induction, you are doing OWL. But really, think of it, did 5 net carbs of vegetables (that's about a cup and a half of broccoli) made you gain weight? Likely not. It's the junk food we ate and/or the carbs we overate that caused us to gain weight. As long as you are getting your carbohydrates from whole, nutritious, minimally-processed foods, and stay below your CCLL, you will continue to lose weight. And the extra micronutrients might even accelerate your weight loss, as some of the ADBBers discovered on their own.

Also, in OWL, until you go very close to your CCLL and/or try upper rung foods, you will still have the appetite suppressant effect of ketosis. So don't worry, your appetite will be under control. If something goes wrong and cravings return, it will be either the latest food you added, some new combination you tried or your new carb level that caused it, and then all you've got to do is move a step back --- not go back to Induction or to a lower OWL Rung, but just eliminate the problem food or go back 5 net carbs.

[mizski]

Re: Moving to OWL

the odd thing regarding moving from Induction to OWL is for me is actually the new choices and change of routine. I love the restrcition of Induction as I simply know what I'll be eating most of the time. That widening makes me think I may mess it up (on counts, choices).

I thought that in the beginning too. At first I thought that OWL meant you HAD to have those foods each day once you moved up to that rung. And I thought how the heck am I going to continue to lose weight if I have my Induction veggies + more veggies + dairy + nuts + berries in one day. PLUS...I don't want all those things in one day.

I kept re-reading the DANDR 2002 book and it is still not that clear to me the way it is explained. Then I found some posts on ADBB that explained that I didn't have to have all those things in one day and could swap them out to maintain my desired carb level. So one day I may have some blueberries and a few seeds in my salad, the next day I may have more veggies, etc. I did a lousy job in explaining this but I hope you get the idea: OWL isn't that scary. There are more food choices (which is great) but it doesn't take long to get into a routine with those new foods too. It's a learning experience as we go along.

Good luck on OWL and congrats on your weight loss success.

[Momtofour]

Re: Moving to OWL

I thought that in the beginning too. At first I thought that OWL meant you HAD to have those foods each day once you moved up to that rung. And I thought how the heck am I going to continue to lose weight if I have my Induction veggies + more veggies + dairy + nuts + berries in one day. PLUS...I don't want all those things in one day.

I kept re-reading the DANDR 2002 book and it is still not that clear to me the way it is explained. Then I found some posts on ADBB that explained that I didn't have to have all those things in one day and could swap them out to maintain my desired carb level. So one day I may have some blueberries and a few seeds in my salad, the next day I may have more veggies, etc. I did a lousy job in explaining this but I hope you get the idea: OWL isn't that scary. There are more food choices (which is great) but it doesn't take long to get into a routine with those new foods too. It's a learning experience as we go along.

Good luck on OWL and congrats on your weight loss success.

I think you did a great job explaining OWL.

[PeteinVA]

Re: Moving to OWL

I'm finding it a little hard to move ahead on OWL like I can't get enough carbs, and don't want to eat any more food than I already am. I don't want any new foods either.

Weird huh.

[Georgiana]

Re: Moving to OWL

I'm finding it a little hard to move ahead on OWL like I can't get enough carbs, and don't want to eat any more food than I already am. I don't want any new foods either.

Weird huh.

Did you check this sticky Megs wrote: http://www.atkinsdietbulletinboard.com/forums/ongoing-weight-loss-owl/25258-eating-more-vegetables-owl.html ?
It gives some ideas on how to add more veggies in OWL Rung 1.

You will not be eating more food. Because, assuming your calories stays the same (or even get lower as you get smaller), your protein will remain the same, while your fat will decrease slightly making place for more carbs. So you should end up eating the same (or less; in calories), but simply differently balanced.

As for the volume of food you will be eating on OWL, here you have to choose with care. For your 5 net carbs from veggies in OWL Rung 1 you can eat either 10 cups of romaine or about 1/2 cup of celeriac (celery root) made into chips/fries. Later on, as you move up the carb ladder, the volume of food you add back at each step typically decreases. For example, I just moved to OWL Rung 6 a few days ago, and 5 net carbs of most beans mean about 3 tbsp. These are enough to add more flavor to the meals, but I wouldn't say it's a huge volume of food.

[Elizellen]

Re: Moving to OWL

To add to what Georgians said, in OWL rung 1 you are not necessarily trying to reach 25 net grams but to add 5 net grams to however many net carbs you were eating on induction.
So basically you eat exactly the same menus as before only add 5 net carbs of veggies. If you choose them from the 'other veg' list it need not be a huge amount extra, and remember that you need to measure raw anything that reduces in cooking like onions, spinach, peppers etc. Half a cup of raw chopped onions has 4 net carbs according to fitday but it really is only a few tablespoonsworth once it has been sautééd in butter and used as a topping for a pork chop or steak!