Confession: OWL Stumps Me

[EmDee]

Ok, I've read up on OWL and this is my second attempt at the ladder...LOL. Here is what I don't understand:

We are increasing carbs at the same time as trying new foods, yes? Given that we have those two variables AND the fact that weight loss is not linear, how can we tell what might be responsible for a "slow" weightloss week?

I only weigh once a week and generally lose only 1-2 lbs per week. That said, there can be a week with an increase or a hold steady...could be TOM, could be the scale being funky, could be totally unexplained. I try not to let it bother me, so long as I am seeing decent downward progress overall.

But since I only weigh once a week and that reading is not always reliable, can I only try a new food once every week or two? (I will be laddering F O R E V E R at that pace, LOL) And how can I be adding carbs at the same time I am trying new foods?

Or should I determine my CCLL first by increasing induction foods until I know what the upper limit is, and then start experimenting with different foods?

Or am I overanalyzing all this, LOL. I have lost 20 lbs in last 2 months on extended induction and Rung 1 (and I have lost almost 50 lbs overall since starting Atkins). I am happy with lo carb eating generally and don't feel deprived.

Help!

[not2late]

Re: Confession: OWL Stumps Me

Ok, I've read up on OWL and this is my second attempt at the ladder...LOL. Here is what I don't understand:

We are increasing carbs at the same time as trying new foods, yes? Given that we have those two variables AND the fact that weight loss is not linear, how can we tell what might be responsible for a "slow" weightloss week?

Yes, that is what we are doing. BUT......

You can approach it like this:

Rung 1
Week 1 you eat:
Induction Menu + Rung 1 Food A & increase your net carbs by 5.

Result: you lose weight and your Blood sugar instability test is okay.
Conclusion: Rung 1 Food A is okay for you AND the carb level is okay.

Week 2 you eat:
Induction Menu + Rung 1 Food B & you keep your net carbs the same as Week 1.

Result: you don't lose weight AND your Blood Sugar Instability test shows increased hunger.
Conclusion: Rung 1 Food B isn't okay for you. You already know from Week 1 that the carb level is okay. So it's the food that disagrees with you. And you can continue on trying out different foods on the Rung, while keeping the carb level the same.

Rung 2

Week 1 you eat:
Induction Menu + Rung 1 Food C + Rung 2 Food A & you increase your net carbs by 5.
Result: You lose weight, but your Blood sugar instability test shows increased cravings.
Conclusion: The carb level is probably okay, but the food isn't.

etc.

I only weigh once a week and generally lose only 1-2 lbs per week. That said, there can be a week with an increase or a hold steady...could be TOM, could be the scale being funky, could be totally unexplained. I try not to let it bother me, so long as I am seeing decent downward progress overall.

You should also be measuring your inches. I went through a few months of not really losing: one week I'm down 2 pounds, the next week I'm up 1 pound, the next I'm down 0.5 pounds, etc. But I was never in a stall by Dr. Atkins' definition because I was losing inches. In fact, I dropped a few dress sizes during that period of no-scale movement. So start measuring if you haven't already begun to do that. A weight loss plateau on Atkins is defined as 4 weeks without loss of inches or pounds.

But since I only weigh once a week and that reading is not always reliable, can I only try a new food once every week or two? (I will be laddering F O R E V E R at that pace, LOL) And how can I be adding carbs at the same time I am trying new foods?

I've found the Blood Sugar Instability test in the book to be a faster and better indicator of food intolerances.

Or should I determine my CCLL first by increasing induction foods until I know what the upper limit is, and then start experimenting with different foods?

You could do that-----but the foods you will be increasing will be the Rung 1 foods, not eating more eggs, cream, cheese, etc.

So your menu would look something like this:

Induction Menu + Rung 1 Food (5 net carbs) + Rung 1 Food (5 net carbs)

Rather than:

induction menu + Rung 1 Food (5 net carbs) + Rung 2 Food (5 net carbs)

Or am I overanalyzing all this, LOL. I have lost 20 lbs in last 2 months on extended induction and Rung 1 (and I have lost almost 50 lbs overall since starting Atkins). I am happy with lo carb eating generally and don't feel deprived.

Nope. You're not overanalyzing at all! OWL is perhaps the most important weight loss phase (second to Pre-Maintenance) because you will be individualizing your Atkins to your body. So ask any questions you might have.

[ShannonK]

Re: Confession: OWL Stumps Me

Thanks, Megs. This is really helpful.

[not2late]

Re: Confession: OWL Stumps Me

OWL isn't that hard if you look at it like this:

You're getting dressed for a date/party. Your goal is to look good with what you've got. You have the 'classic little black dress' and you jazz it up with accessories, right? Approach OWL the same way. Your ultimate goal is to lose weight and keep it off by learning what your body can and cannot tolerate. The little black dress is your Induction Menu. Every accessory--earrings, belts, your hairdo, necklaces, scarves, perfume, etc.---is a OWL Rung. Every earring you try on is like an OWL Rung Food. If the earrings work with your outfit, fine. If not, you try on another pair. So by the time you finish dressing for the date, you have individualized that little black dress: you know what goes with what. Same thing is true for OWL---you lose weight and you know what your body can and cannot tolerate.

[EmDee]

Re: Confession: OWL Stumps Me

but what if you don't have a mirror, megs? Then you don't know what looks good until you go out for the night...

LOL that is what I feel like when I am trying to figure out whether a particular food is affecting my weight or if it is just random.

Thank you for the very detailed explanation ~ I think I understand what you are saying, but if you have to "test" every food on rung 1 (all vegetables) individually and wait a week (or 2) won't I be "testing" foods forever??

And your example of Rung 2 contains two new foods (rung 1 & rung 2) ~ how would you know which one is causing a problem if that week did not go well? Then you would have to spend a week (or 2) testing each food invidiually to see if it was the culprit....that's a month right there!

This is why I got overwhelmed last time I tried to climb the ladder ~ I couldn't tell what was causing my weight ups & downs and it just got totally frustrating.

(I can feel that frustration starting again, LOL!)

I have to check out the Blood Sugar Instability test tho ~ I think I missed that discussion in the book, thanks for the tip!!

EmDee...on the ladder for life...LOL

[not2late]

Re: Confession: OWL Stumps Me

but what if you don't have a mirror, megs? Then you don't know what looks good until you go out for the night...

LOL that is what I feel like when I am trying to figure out whether a particular food is affecting my weight or if it is just random.

Thank you for the very detailed explanation ~ I think I understand what you are saying, but if you have to "test" every food on rung 1 (all vegetables) individually and wait a week (or 2) won't I be "testing" foods forever??

And your example of Rung 2 contains two new foods (rung 1 & rung 2) ~ how would you know which one is causing a problem if that week did not go well? Then you would have to spend a week (or 2) testing each food invidiually to see if it was the culprit....that's a month right there!

This is why I got overwhelmed last time I tried to climb the ladder ~ I couldn't tell what was causing my weight ups & downs and it just got totally frustrating.

(I can feel that frustration starting again, LOL!)

I have to check out the Blood Sugar Instability test tho ~ I think I missed that discussion in the book, thanks for the tip!!

EmDee...on the ladder for life...LOL

This is where you have to decide whether or not you want to make your Atkins a lifestyle or just another way to lose weight.

If you want to make Atkins a lifestyle, then you take your time losing weight while learning how your body reacts to foods. If you want to just lose weight, then hurry through the Rungs and hope for the best during Pre-Maintenance and Maintenance Phases.

The blood sugar instability test is better tool on OWL and Pre-Maintenance than the ketostix (which stop registering at a 40-50 net carb intake anyway) or even weight/inches lost because it takes only hours for you to see if a food affects you badly.

[EmDee]

Re: Confession: OWL Stumps Me

I already have made Atkins my lifestyle, but I am committed to doing it in order to lower my weight (& maintain it later on). The primary goal is to drop the pounds ~ I think everyone would agree with that, including Dr A! (I haven't seen too many posts that say "I can eat brussel sprouts!" but seen a lot that say "I've lost 60 pounds!" LOL)

I started this thread cuz I was hoping people might share with me the practices they followed in traversing the OWL rungs, how they "tested" foods or determined where their carb limit was... I can't help but think that people here have adapted their own ways of doing this.

anybody out there wanna share? thanks!

[not2late]

Re: Confession: OWL Stumps Me

I already have made Atkins my lifestyle, but I am committed to doing it in order to lower my weight (& maintain it later on). The primary goal is to drop the pounds ~ I think everyone would agree with that, including Dr A! (I haven't seen too many posts that say "I can eat brussel sprouts!" but seen a lot that say "I've lost 60 pounds!" LOL)

I realize that you've committed yourself to Atkins. But there are folks who think that OWL is a Phase that can be skipped over or undertaken in an abbreviated form. For example, "move to OWL for your last 5-10 pounds" was a common idea when I was a newbie. It's much like this new "move to OWL if you stall on Extended Induction" idea. So I just want to nip that in the bud for anyone reading this thread who thinks they can skip OWL.

I think by the time we get to OWL, it becomes so individualized that you don't see "woohoo! I can eat popcorn!" threads. But you do see threads where OWLers share their experiences (primarily their difficulties) with the Rungs. Everyone's body reacts differently to foods and I think we realize that when we get to OWL and see it happen to ourselves. For example, I can eat watermelon and honeydew melon without any problems, but I can't eat cantaloup because it gives me very bad cravings. But that doesn't mean you can eat watermelon or honeydew melon without any problems and it doesn't mean cantaloup will give you problems.

I started this thread cuz I was hoping people might share with me the practices they followed in traversing the OWL rungs, how they "tested" foods or determined where their carb limit was... I can't help but think that people here have adapted their own ways of doing this.

anybody out there wanna share? thanks!

I'm sure there are folks who have done their own thing during OWL and have askewed the Carb Ladder approach. Whether or not they have been successful in the long-run, I don't know.

[Georgiana]

Re: Confession: OWL Stumps Me

I started this thread cuz I was hoping people might share with me the practices they followed in traversing the OWL rungs, how they "tested" foods or determined where their carb limit was... I can't help but think that people here have adapted their own ways of doing this.

anybody out there wanna share? thanks!

I am only following the book on OWL (surprise, surprise... ), so I'm not sure there's anything "special" in the way I do it. As Megs wrote, it's "special" only in the sense that it applies to me, but not to X.

To test foods, I usually use the Blood-Sugar Symptoms Test. Sometimes my reaction to a food is very obvious and I don't need to take the test, but the symptoms come down to it nevertheless. I'm close to goal and not a fast loser, so if I tried each food until the scale moved or four weeks passed without a loss of inches or pounds, it would be frustrating. I often try a food for two weeks. That way I have time to eat it with different other foods (sometimes we might tolerate a food, but not a food combination) or to see what happens if I eat the food daily (I only did this with veggies, because I don't need fresh cheese, yogurt, nuts, berries, etc. daily).

About the "woo hoo, I can eat ____!" threads, I guess that just comes to show that having a healthy weight tastes better than any food.

[liv]

Re: Confession: OWL Stumps Me

I can share my way too.
In my opinion I think most people who do OWL do it "special." I almost think we have to as Atkins does not really give a lot of directions on this phase. We use it to find CCLL and to try out new foods in order which is what I am doing.

I followed the rungs too - because they make sense to me. Adding the safer foods first and then the carbier and sugary/starcier foods at the end.

I have spent a long time on OWL and I am still in owl because I think it works for me to do it slow. I am really dwelling on each new foods and finding ways that I can use it. I do not want to end up at the end with food phobias. I want to be friend with all foods.

I found my CCLL early on when on the nut rung so it is low and so I know the around carb number. I think this is important to establish and I think it makes sense to find it with the lower carb foods (veggies, daily, nuts and berries)

I generally test foods by how I react to them now. Some just immediately feel wrong (like rice) I get a sudden bloodsuger rush that I can identify immediatly. Other may cause some craving more slowly (peanuts - and most other nuts)

If I meet a food that I did not test when I were at that rung - like a new berry - I just test it now. You cannot test for everything that would be a ridiculous goal. I tested the more common items that I thought I may like to eat (like grapefruits and apples on the fruit rung)

I don't think OWL is easy. For me it is important becasue I want to eat the maximum of foods in the right quantities for the rest of my life and still keep my weight where it is now. And I want to learn to restrict these portions to the necessary size when I do OWL.

I have learned that I can eat a lot of different foods but not in the quantities I used to. But I am very happy with OWL.

Hope you can find a way to like it too.

[mizski]

Re: Confession: OWL Stumps Me

I started this thread cuz I was hoping people might share with me the practices they followed in traversing the OWL rungs, how they "tested" foods or determined where their carb limit was... I can't help but think that people here have adapted their own ways of doing this.

anybody out there wanna share? thanks!

I haven't really posted much about my OWL experiences as many times I am not sure what I am doing at all. I keep referring to the book but find various posts on ADBB to be more helpful.

So far I went through a clean Induction and immediately moved into OWL 1 (more veg). Coming directly from the South Beach diet I pretty much knew my relationship with all kinds of veggies and where I always ate close to all the allowed veggies anyways, I didn't stay there long. Still lost weight at a good clip so on to OWL 2 I went.

Now this is where the "I'm not sure what I am doing at all" part starts. In the dairy rung (OWL 2) I only have Greek yogurt or ricotta or other dairy occasionally...mainly in recipes. Because I was in the dairy rung I felt that I HAD to eat some at least to check out any reactions. I didn't notice any change in the way I felt or in my weight loss so I moved on to OWL 3 (nuts).

I learned long ago to treat nuts with respect meaning I learned to portion them out (both nuts/seeds and nut butters). I stayed away from peanuts and PB as peanuts are really legumes and I wasn't sure if they belonged in that upper rung AND more importantly, I've found peanut products to have a lot of inflammatory aspects and I just avoid them. I use nuts/seeds mainly in recipes (I LOVE pine nuts) and sometimes I have some almond butter on celery. No problems weight or craving wise so on to berries I went.

Same deal in the berry rung. I don't have berries much now that summer is over and fresh, local berries are gone. Still, I do like a few berries occasionally tossed in salads or in my Greek yogurt or whey protein shakes. Again, no problems so I moved on to the wine rung.

I don't really drink much wine except maybe on holidays but do have a lot of recipes that call for wine. I was originally going to skip this step but decided to do it so I could make those recipes. I haven't made any of them yet though so here I am still in Rung 5.

Geez, I didn't mean to write a book. What I'm really not sure about in OWL is that after the veggie rung, I don't really use much of the stuff in the other rungs all that much, just here and there in recipes. Perhaps I should have stayed in those rungs longer but I didn't see the point. Now the next rung (beans/legumes) will be one that I need to approach carefully and will probably spend some time in. I love beans and legumes and it is so very easy to go overboard with them. Past experience has shown me that this food is one where I stall on. Probably because I was having South Beach's recommended daily 1/3-1/2 cup. Atkins allows much less for beans/legumes so I'm hoping that this time around will go much better.

I had better stop now.

[EmDee]

Re: Confession: OWL Stumps Me

thank you ladies for all your comments & insights ~ this are exactly the kind of personal experiences I was hoping for. I feel a little less adrift now! I'm gonna stay on rung 1 for a little while til I feel that I have a good handle on my "veggie foundation," but then I am plunging on ahead up those rungs!