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**not2late** · May 15, 2005, 05:47 AM

Re: OWL-First Day!

Originally posted by jade

*I know that everyone is different so I am only speaking of myself here. But if after you have completed all of the rungs on the ladder and you find an amount of grams that you have lost the most weight during a week on can you stay at that level? I guess what I"m asking is this: I might have lost at least 1 pound a week on a higher level of carbs but I want to lose faster. I know I can lose faster at a lower amount of carbs so can I go to that lower amount of carbs yet be able to have the choice of any food on the carb ladder? Does this make sense?

You can stay at that level. But you really should find your CCLL---that will give you the opportunity to "eat more" on certain occassions, without you worrying that you aren't in ketosis, etc. My CCLL is 40. Sometimes I eat up to 40, sometimes I eat up to 30, sometimes I eat up to 20---it all depends on what I'm eating that day and how much food my body is telling me to eat.

As for staying on a lower carb level, you might continue to lose weight faster and you might not. Some of the Extended Induction folks experience a plateau if they remain on their 20 net carbs for an extended period of time and they're weight loss picks up when they begin adding carbs.

**jade** · May 15, 2005, 06:54 AM

Re: OWL-First Day!

Hey Megs,

"As for staying on a lower carb level, you might continue to lose weight faster and you might not."

This is what I needed to know. Thanks so much for the info! I think I will just slowly go up the ladder. I might lose slower but I will lose forever, eh?

Thanks again!
Be well,
jade :wave

**Isabeau** · May 15, 2005, 09:28 AM

That's the wonderful thing about OWL, you can really customize it to your needs and still lose weight.

**jade** · May 15, 2005, 10:51 AM

Hey "Isabeau"!
Thanks for sharing. I'm a believer! I'm glad that everyone is different. So many times in the past I've been on diets where one size fits all or there are limited 'sizes'. With Atkins I know I'm getting a custom made program based on my food likes and proportions.

Be well-
jade :wave

**not2late** · May 15, 2005, 03:46 PM

You can go as fast or as slow as you want. If you want to find your CCLL slowly, you can. I think, however, it's a better idea to find it first during rung 1 so you'll have that 'safety net' of knowing how many carbs you can have without 'going over'.

**jade** · May 15, 2005, 06:07 PM

Hey "not2late"

"I think, however, it's a better idea to find it first during rung 1 so you'll have that 'safety net' of knowing how many carbs you can have without 'going over'."

So does that mean you would stay at just adding the vegetables and increasing in 5 carb increments until you find your ACE? I think I would go off the food plan if that is the only choice I would have. It sounds boring to me. (If that's what you mean.) One of the reasons I moved to OWL is so I could have some variety in my food selections.
But I want to make sure if that's what you mean. So could you clarify as to what you mean by staying on rung 1.

Thanks so much for responding. I do appreciate your input.

Be well-
jade :wave

**jimmie 48** · May 16, 2005, 02:47 PM

and i see your second question got answered too, jade. well done!
thanks for the responses girls!

**not2late** · May 16, 2005, 02:53 PM

I stayed on Rung 1 to find my CCLL. I like veggies so it wasn't a problem for me (besides with the fiber from the veggies, I didn't have to worry about taking those yucky fiber supplements!).

If you want to stay on rung 1 for a total of a 10 or 15 net carb increase you can. Then if you want to move into Rung 2 and go up more you can do that too.

The tactical problem with moving up rungs and adding carbs is if you hit a stall---is it due to the food you just added or is it due to the number of carbs you just added or is it a combo of both?

**jade** · May 16, 2005, 03:29 PM

Hey Megs!

[quote]If you want to stay on rung 1 for a total of a 10 or 15 net carb increase you can. Then if you want to move into Rung 2 and go up more you can do that too.
The tactical problem with moving up rungs and adding carbs is if you hit a stall---is it due to the food you just added or is it due to the number of carbs you just added or is it a combo of both?[quote]

Ok! This makes perfect sense to me. Do you know approximately how long one should stay on Rung 1 before making the move to the next rung or is everyone different?

Thanks for clarifying this for me!! I appreciate it!

Be well-
jade :wave

**jade** · May 16, 2005, 03:31 PM

Hey "jimmie 48"
Yep, I sure did! I knew it would get answered eventually. Folks are busy and I read other posts so I knew if I didn't get it answered here that someone would answer it some where else.

Thanks for your help!
Be well-
jade :wave

**not2late** · May 17, 2005, 06:38 AM

Originally posted by jade

Hey Megs!

Ok! This makes perfect sense to me. Do you know approximately how long one should stay on Rung 1 before making the move to the next rung or is everyone different?

Thanks for clarifying this for me!! I appreciate it!

Be well-
jade :wave

You can stay on rungs for as long as you want. Like I said, I love veggies and there were plenty of low carb veggies that didn't make it to Dr. Atkins Induction list, such as the Asian vegetables. My diet before Atkins had a great deal of variety, albeit with alot of refined carbs, but I ate my fair share of different veggies. So, I spent a long time in Rung 1 re-introducing the veggies I like to eat like Chinese broccoli, watercress, different Asian spinaches (water spinach, malabar spinach), and a bunch of other veggies.

I spent a quite a bit of time on the fresh dairy rung because I ran into problems with ricotta cheese. I sorta "skipped" the alcohol rung. "Sorta" because I'm not a social drinker and the alcohol I do use I use for cooking, so a tablespoon or so of sherry, vermouth or some other alcohol was all I tried out during that rung.

I'm moving off the starchy veggie rung soon because I've tried out the veggies I wanted to from that and I've only spent maybe 3 weeks on the starchy rung.

OWL gives you alot of flexibility and it's not as regimented as Induction, which I think is part of the reason why people are initially frightened of it.

**jade** · May 17, 2005, 07:00 PM

Hey Megs!
Thanks for the information. I have a curious question (sorry in advance if it sounds silly!) I was looking at the breakdown in the 2000 book and he has that page that says, 'The following foods are basically 5 grams each.' Then he gave a list of some of the rungs but not all of them. So I was thinking to myself: "Would it really matter what rung you started on (in the ones that he listed) if they were all the same amount of carbs?" Then I started thinking that while they were the same amount, the way your body reacts to them is alot different. So I'm thinking that's probably why he set it up the way he did. He was going for a gradually increase in the overall glycemic load. It looks like that could only be achieved if the food items were both low on the glycemic index and had the lower carb count.
Anyway, thanks for letting me ramble. I find the science behind this food plan fascinating!

Be well-
jade :wave

**not2late** · May 17, 2005, 07:44 PM

Originally posted by jade

Hey Megs!
Thanks for the information. I have a curious question (sorry in advance if it sounds silly!) I was looking at the breakdown in the 2000 book and he has that page that says, 'The following foods are basically 5 grams each.' Then he gave a list of some of the rungs but not all of them. So I was thinking to myself: "Would it really matter what rung you started on (in the ones that he listed) if they were all the same amount of carbs?" Then I started thinking that while they were the same amount, the way your body reacts to them is alot different. So I'm thinking that's probably why he set it up the way he did. He was going for a gradually increase in the overall glycemic load. It looks like that could only be achieved if the food items were both low on the glycemic index and had the lower carb count.
Anyway, thanks for letting me ramble. I find the science behind this food plan fascinating!

Be well-
jade :wave

You're correct about the glycemic index. But the ladder is also arranged in terms of food allergy causers. If you look at the rungs, they are more or less arranged in the order of known food intolerances. More veggies containing 10% or less carbs, then nuts (lots of people have nut allergies/sensitivities), then dairy (again, lots of people with lactose intolerance), berries (some folks have sensitivities to berries like strawberries and melons), and the final rung is grains---again, people have allergies or sensitivities to wheat, oats, and other grains.

So this systematic and purposeful climb up the ladder allows you to test your body on these foods. Some ADBB members have interesting reactions to foods. We had one member who couldn't eat broccoli because it set of severe cravings. We have another for whom celery does the same thing. I can't eat cantaloupes for that same reason---and I used to eat cantaloupes frequently without noticing a problem before Atkins. My wacky body can't have tomatoes and eggplant together (like eggplant parmesan) because that combination sets off something in me that makes me "need" to eat more and more.

The original 1972 diet and the 1992 revision didn't have a "carb ladder". You just added on 5 carbs worth of higher carb foods each week until you found your CCLL. Then he changed it in the 2002 edition, no doubt because people fell into some traps.

**jade** · May 18, 2005, 02:55 AM

Hey Megs,

[quote]You're correct about the glycemic index. But the ladder is also arranged in terms of food allergy causers.[quote]

*This is very interesting and something I've never considered because I don't have any known food allergies. (Although, since I've been on Atkins I have noticed that I no longer have indigestion/heartburn, I'm in less pain with regards to my fibromyalgia and have had very little in the way of cravings.)
I'm feeling a little bit of a pinch this week as I am PMS. However, I know for my own self how to battle that so I'm beginning to prepare.
Thanks again for sharing. The more we know, the better choices we can make.

Thanks again!
Be well-
jade :wave

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