My daily non induction menu

**liv** · September 19, 2008, 11:05 AM

Re: My daily non induction menu

That is not induction food (ricotta and strawberries)
But your heading are clear on that

Have you started OWL?
I guess what I am asking is are you climbing the rungs.
How many carbs does your menu work out to?

Are you having any issues with it?

**MsManners** · September 19, 2008, 11:13 AM

Re: My daily non induction menu

As someone who is not long on atkins, 3 weeks, perhaps it is not my place to say, but.....part of the reason that I am fat (and I guess many others here are fat) is because we get our enjoyment from food. While I don't think food should be disgusting it shouldn't be your chief enjoyment either.

Stawberries are not on induction.

I think that it is more about changing your relationship with food. Food is like gas for your car. Your car doesn't "enjoy" it, gas just keeps it moving and in our case, food keeps tha fat machine burning.

I think that if you look at other things to get enjoyment from instead of looking to food, you will lose weight and be much happier since it will stay off.
Alex

**Barbee** · September 19, 2008, 04:08 PM

Re: My daily non induction menu

I am not on the INDUCTION!

I did the induction in May. I think I stated that.

I agree that we shouldn't enjoy food like we used to but I'm just swallowing without any real enjoyment at all.... I do think we should at least like the taste. I've had eggs for breakfast every morning since May 1... I almost gag on them now. I was never a big meat eater and now have to eat more of it than I'd like. I've always enjoyed veggies as a side dish... but I have to eat so much more of them now.

The strawberries I chose because they are the lowest in carbs of all the fruit and my doctor wants me to eat fiber because this diet has me critically constipated. The strawberries help some but I'm still binding so badly that I suffer cramps. I tried to take a mild laxative but then I have the runs... no happy medium.

You are probably thinking... "then maybe another diet would fit me better," but I can no longer eat carbs because they give me so much gas that I have fear of embarrassing myself in public and at work. The gas was so bad I couldn't walk, bend over or anything. Since cutting the carbs I've had none to speak of at all. I have low blood sugar too and shouldn't be eating them anyway. What I can't wait for is the day when I've lost all the weight I need and can introduce a few more carbs into my diet. I'd love to make the cheesecake in the Atkins book and the other yummy recipes. I don't dare do that now.

**liv** · September 19, 2008, 04:10 PM

Re: My daily non induction menu

So then where are you? Rung 4 with berries? Have you followed the rungs? It is hard to comment when we do not know where you are supposed to be. How many carbs do you take in daily?
Are you having issues? Is that why you want input or ?

**Barbee** · September 19, 2008, 04:38 PM

Re: My daily non induction menu

I'm following Atkins Diet Revolution. Level 3 has strawberries. Level 2 has the cheesecake which I never made because it has more carbs than the small amount of strawberries I eat. Page 173.

I have not gotten past level 3 because the weight loss slowed. I'm still losing, but only about 1/2 lb a week. I'm going to try to drink more water in the day time. I suppose at 64 I should be happy with that and not compare myself with others who are younger and more active.

I only stayed on the induction for 14 days and then moved to level 2.

**liv** · September 19, 2008, 06:11 PM

Re: My daily non induction menu

Owl is like this
Rung one is veggies (5 carb mores than you did ate on induction - you do not write amounts but it does not look like most of your carbs are from veggies but from strawberries, sweeteners and dairy.
Rung two is dairy - you can eat yogurt, soft cheeses, milk
Rung three is seeds and nuts
Rung four is berries
Are you using the 2002 edition of Atkins New Diet Revolution? It is the one this board uses.
But I kind of agree with your conclusion - it looks like the diet is working - you are losing weight and weightloss do slow down with time.
I think I would try the water more (maybe cut out the water with splenda and do the straight water)
And if you want more tweak perhaps spreading out your veggies and even trying a few more. How about trying a bit of pumpkin with cream cheese for snack? A bit of cucumber with your breakfast or some cherry tomatoes. Watch the dairy so you do not find yourself eating more and more of it - can be a staller.

**Barbee** · September 19, 2008, 07:45 PM

Re: My daily non induction menu

OK, will try that. I'm using the 1972 edition! I bought it on Amazon used because it was the one I used years ago with much success.

I'm trying to make the diet as appetizing as possible so it isn't so difficult to stay on. After a few months it can get tedius.

I like the pumpkin, cream cheese idea but don't you need a touch of sweetening?

Thank you and I'll try your suggestions.

**redfoxglove** · September 20, 2008, 10:57 AM

Re: My daily non induction menu

Barbee, I know this comment is going to stir up controversy, but I am in total agreement with you about finding pleasure and enjoyment in our food. And we are in the company of Dr. Atkins himself when we express this opinon. I would like to suggest everyone who thinks they are not supposed to get enjoyment from their food to re-read the DANDR and see how many times DR. Atkins says "we can enjoy rich, luxurious eating for the rest of our lives". Don't let the diet get tedious. Study, experiment, learn, and succeed.

Food is one of the greatest pleasures in life, I think that is also a Dr. Atkins paraphrase but I'm not going to go look it up chapter and verse because if you actually read the book you will see that message everywhere. (But here's one citation, p. 20, "Not only does Atkins not deprive you of the pleasure of eating...)(p. 4, "keeps lost pounds off forever with a new lifetime approach that includes rich, delicious foods)(p. 5, "I equate healthy eating with gastronomic pleasure and soon, you will too.")

It is in fact, at least to my interpretation, one of the strongest currents running through DR. Atkins' logic. He says typical doctor-recommended diets do not work because they are not satisfying and do not give pleasure.

All that said, it is necessary, incumbent, non-negotiable, for us to follow the plan and go in the order he recommends. It is necessary, incumbent, non-negotiable for us to re-think our relationship to food. Those who commented above about finding other sources of pleasure have a strong and favorable point. But I see no reason, and no evidence in the DANDR, why a person couldn't completely focus on finding pleasure and enjoyment in their food, to the extent of becoming a famous and successful Atkins-type chef if they wanted to!

And to take this commentary one step forward and really stick my neck out, I'll ask this question. To take the mental position that one is not supposed to enjoy their food and find considerable pleasure in it, could this be a manifestation of one of those self-negating, self-bashing, self-punishing, negative kinds of mental behaviors to which many people who are overweight are very prone? It's just mistaken thinking, at best. Again to paraphrase the Doctor, we just need to experiment with and find the kind of healthy (as defined by Atkins) foods with which to reward successes, celebrate holidays and social occasions, woo our loved ones, and splurge and indulge when we feel like it just because we've been so good. Read it for yourself, Dr. Atkins describes these circumstances as normal and healthy being-a-human.

If this is a lifetime choice of way of eating, are we going to sit back like wallflowers when these occasions come around (i.e. every week), or are we going to find ways to do what's normal within the bounds of what is healthy for us?

Look in the back of the DANDR, there are plenty of mouthwatering recipes, including bread, desserts, and treats, there are plenty on various low carb web sites, Dr. Atkins even has a book called Atkins for Life where there are 180 menu plans for carb levels of 30-45-60-80-100 grams of carb per day. Do the work of working this plan and you will get to a place where you can have most of what you think you are craving right now. Do the work of working this plan and you will get rid of the cravings and start to have an authentic relationship with your appetite and your taste preferences.

Do the work, what does that mean? It ain't magic. To me, and I think some will agree if they decide to really examine themselves, the work includes learning new foods to eat, new combinations of food that work, tried and true recipes converted to controlled carb, new recipes I never even heard of, and educating my sugar-and-wheat-paralyzed taste buds to prefer something healthier. It means thinking ahead, shopping for the right foods and ingredients, and resisting the urge to remain addicted to convenience and instant gratification. It means drinking much of my water early in the day because I have to pee several times a night.

Every metabolic process that occurs does so in the presence of water, inside the cell. If no water, then no or incomplete metabolism. What does that say about weight loss. If you're already getting up twice in the night, why not just have more water to eliminate? That's my strategy, but I find that I get up less and less at night b/c I drink water early in the day, like straight upon rising.

Atkins style veggies are almost nothing but water and fiber. Strawberries are way up on the ladder, and you might do better to step back a rung and experiment with more veggies. If you eat all the veggies you are allowed instead of getting most of your carbs from cream and cheese, your body will respond with a satisfying fiber filled elimination at least once a day. Cream and cheese, even on a conventional way of eating, are constipating. Flatulence is a common reaction to wheat and other grains. Most people don't get flatulence from the carbs of Atkins style veggies. Voice of experience.

I wish I had posted this on a more general thread, I don't mean to sound as if I am railing, Barbee. I just find nothing wrong with your notion that thinking about, selecting, shopping for, cooking, and yes, eating your food should be pleasurable and enjoyable. And Dr. Atkins would back me up on that, I'm certain sure. Make some adjustments, there are some obvious ones mentioned here, go forward. Good health is good at every age.

**MsManners** · September 20, 2008, 11:22 AM

Re: My daily non induction menu

Redfoxglove - I was not suggesting that food is the same as gasoline and should JUST be fuel.

However many fat people, me included, derive a disproportionate amount of our pleasure, comfort, etc from consumption.

Feel bad about something = eat food that makes you happy.
Celebrating something= eat food that makes you happy.
Bored=eat food that makes you happy.

This is NOT a positive relationship with food. You can Atkins or diet until you are a stick figure but if you never get past the idea that food=reward or food=happiness you will never be able to maintain the loss. That is part of the reason why so many people end up back on Atkins or other programs, they get to their goal weight and start rewarding themselves with food.

What I was suggesting was that while on Adkins, this would be a good time to get over the food=happiness trap and start getting enjoyment from other places so that in the future:

Feel bad about something=grab a sad movie and have a good cry or a comedy and have a good laugh
Celebrating something=buy a new dress or go to a favorite gallery or show
Bored=have a hobby to keep your hands and mind active.

People should be able to enjoy good food and get pleasure for that activity. Dr Atkins did say that you should get enjoyment from food. BUT that is in comparison to other diets where you have to just eat grapefruit or cabbage soup where eating horrid food is a chore and becomes an impossible way to lose weight. Food can and should be enjoyable, but there has to be a balance and I think that many fat people, again, myself included have to work hard to fix that balance. Since the original poster suggested that she couldn’t give up strawberries because they were her happiness, I responded that that was part of the problem.
Alex

**liv** · September 20, 2008, 11:45 AM

Re: My daily non induction menu

Originally posted by Barbee View Post

OK, will try that. I'm using the 1972 edition! I bought it on Amazon used because it was the one I used years ago with much success.

I'm trying to make the diet as appetizing as possible so it isn't so difficult to stay on. After a few months it can get tedius.

I like the pumpkin, cream cheese idea but don't you need a touch of sweetening?

Thank you and I'll try your suggestions.

I think following the OWL rungs is away out of tedious because you slowly try on new things and don't get stuck with the same old. Just going by from what I have learned from this board it seems the successful longtimers here all did that. Another way out of tedious is to experiment and do different things with food. I hunt for recipes all the time. I love to try to do new baking things - flax has become a love of life

As for the pumpkin and cream cheese - I do add a tad of splenda and a bit of cinnamon and nutmeg. Cinnamon is been touted as being good for metabolism - and I love the taste. So it cannot hurt.
Have you tried coconut oil? Some people think it helps metabolism too.

**redfoxglove** · September 20, 2008, 12:11 PM

Re: My daily non induction menu

Alex, I did not mean to point a finger at you with all that I had to say. Your point is valid, favorable, and well taken. Learning to have a healthy relationship to food is more than a one-trick pony. For some of us fat people it's not just an emotional eating issue. Once I learned to do all the things you mention, now I'm all about learning to have a well-rounded life, in a way that is healthy for me, which includes all of the social activities that usually revolve around food.

Certainly success in changing our relationship to food includes learning to focus attention on and derive pleasure from things other than food or tv watching or video game playing. My life is chock full of activities that I enjoy and others that I've given up because of failing energy. I did not mean to make what you said wrong. There is just so much more to the issue, for me, and I think for others. And your post is not the only one I've read on these various forums that says "find other ways to pleasure yourself than food." True enough, but let's not throw out the baby with the bathwater. That's why I wish I had put my post in a more general thread.

**MsManners** · September 20, 2008, 12:28 PM

Re: My daily non induction menu

No worries Redfoxglove!

And Liv.....tell me about this pumpkin cream cheese thing please!

**Barbee** · September 20, 2008, 12:42 PM

Re: My daily non induction menu

I agree with both of you. Food should be enjoyed but not a pacifier.

My point is, if I'm eating things that don't taste good, I'm not likely to stay on the diet for long. If I am getting some enjoyment from the selection of foods, my chances of staying on are excellent.

I think my biggest failure of the diet is that I've been drinking flavored water instead of real water. The bottles says 0 calories and 0 carbs but it does contain a lot of Splenda.... I don't see how my few strawberries a day can hurt when Atkins has it on the 3rd step of the diet and that's where I am, third step. I am eating them in place of the cheesecake which has more carbs than the vitamin C rich strawberries.
I don't bake anything... my only pleasure is that I can still have "dessert" which is a few strawberries with a dab of whipped cream. It is what keeps me on the diet, really. I look forward to it. I'm not on the diet "just" to lose weight but it will become my lifestyle. I do not wish to ever go back to carbs because of the way I feel when I eat them. Awful. So if I'm going to stay on for life, then I'm going to enjoy a few of the diet perks. I won't complain anymore about the slow weight loss... as long as I'm losing and not gaining... I am happy.

**momtomany1** · September 20, 2008, 12:43 PM

Re: My daily non induction menu

Hi, Barbee, yes pumpkin will need a little sweetening. Have you ever tried stevia or xylitol? You don't mention if Splenda gives you issues, but of course the 1972 book wouldn't have mentioned that Splenda was the current recommended sweetener.

Not sure where you live, but I can recommend a replacement for your strawberries. There is a crazy looking green squash available here in the South called chayote. If you sautee' it in butter till softening, add a little cinnamon and Splenda or xylitol, you will think you have cinnamon apples. Throw a little whipping cream on it and it is divine. Very very low carb. If you eat the whole thing it is 8 carbs or so, half of that being fiber, so 4 grams of fiber. That is a better 'fiber to carb' ratio than strawberries.

This is what they look like.

http://www.genaw.com/lowcarb/products/chayote.jpg

Flax can add a whole new dimension to your meals as well, let me know if you want a killer cereal recipe.

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My daily non induction menu

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