Eating confusion

[Elsie150]

I am confused.

Some advice I have gotten here.

Eat only until you are full
Eat no lower than your BMR but should between AMR and BMR
Eat 30% protein
You are not eating enough calories
Just add more fat

Here is my situation. If I only ate when I was hungry then I would hardly eat at all. If I eat until I am full then I would be consistently eating well below my BMR. This WOE has totally killed my appetite. Now I am not complaining about it...I am thankful that the cravings are gone! And it is not as easy as just add more fat as that can easily get too high as the goal is to be around 65%. I have been struggling with eating enough since day 1. I would be considered to not eat enough calories. So I started trying to hit the 30% protein..using my BMR as my guide. This helped for awhile. With the fat and carbs falling into place as I climbed the ladder if I spent time on fitday figuring stuff out. I am micro managing this. I need to to stay on track. The last 2 weeks I didn't keep track as DH was home all the time and we were extremely busy. At night I would just enter what I had had and most days were below 1000 calories and under the 20 carbs...sometimes even closer to 10. And it does help me feel more in control.

Now I am not sure where I stand on the whole starvation mode thing yet. I am not sure whether a person who is overweight can go into starvation mode or not when they can call on their fat reserves. But I do believe that calories do play a part in this WOE. In fact I wonder how many stalls are contributed to a certain food when it could just be the amount. IE: "Nuts stall me" when in reality it is just that they were consuming too many and the calories got too high. I haven't decided yet.

When I am micro managing...meaning spending time in fitday trying to balance things out I go for my BMR and get within 100 on either side..okay...usually it is not over and is closer to 100-200 calories less. I am losing steady this way and am quite happy with it. But tonight for instance to stick to my eating plan I still need to have a salad with romaine, cucumbers, tomatoes and dressing to get me to be within the 100 below my BMR. And frankly I don't want it. I am full. This happens on a regular basis. So my calories will be low...again...my carbs will be low...again. I should be eating 27g carbs and increasing them weekly to find my CCLL. But I am not doing good at this. I find it bizarre that I have started to look for more carb dense foods to help me with this as I am on a low carb plan.

Anyway...this is very long. If you made it this far..thank you! If you have advice or the same problems or are struggling or any answers please feel free to post it here. I will be appreciative!

[cleochatra]

Re: Eating confusion

{{{Elsie}}}For every different person with different experiences, you are going to get different advice and thoughts about what works for them, what studies they've read, and what they've seen work for others.

Im the book "Outsmarting the Female Fat Cell" Debra Waterhouse states that if you eat when you are not hungry you are feeding your fat cells, whether you are feeding them with carrots or ice cream. If you're full, you're full.

Granted, eating more fat adds calories without much bulk and does add to satiety value. If adding a pat of butter is something that can be done, then that is marvellous, if you feel you need to add some calories to your intake.

If you are attempting to climb the OWL rungs, I would look to denser foods, such as spinach lasagne with alfredo sauce or pesto and pignoli. Not terribly over-filling bulk-wise, but calorically and carb dense. I'd also recommend full-fat yogurt with flax and berries. And definitely have cream cheese on your flax cracker!

There are ways to add calories and carbs without feeding your fat cells!

I am so glad you are cautious, though. In the long run, you will be, too. It is better to be safe than to jump into a vat of crazy carb-ness... so keep adding 5 carbs per week, and soon you'll be where you want to be! As you climb the rungs, you'll find you're eating a lower-fat diet, in order to keep the calories stabilized. So keeping track of calories is something to keep in mind, but counting carbs and feeling satisfied matters most on this way of eating.

I'm really proud of you and look forward to reading what others have to say regarding this subject.

[Elsie150]

Re: Eating confusion

Thanks for taking the time to answer my friend!!

I know I am going to get many different answers. It may add to my confusion but it also may help me make up my mind on where I stand. You can never know too much, you know??

I am interested to hear everyone's take on this.

[imgonnagethin]

Re: Eating confusion

Hi Elsie! Firstly I would have to say stick with Fitday, it helps a lot of people, myself included, keep proper track of what is going into our bodies.

What kind of meals are you eating? Maybe it would be helpful for us to see what you're eating on a regular basis to see where you could add calories in without having to eat more - I actually have a problem keeping my calories down even though I don't eat all that much. Also do you eat three meals a day or have more smaller meals throughout the day? Again it depends on the person, but some people find that eating every few hours helps when they are not that hungry.


I do believe that as we climb up the OWL rungs we have to monitor our calories a little more, however, I believe this is done through portion control more than by counting calories (although smaller portions mean lower calories!)

At the end of the day, each of our bodies reacts differently and the most important thing is that we feel healthy in this WOE. Good luck, I know you'll get some great feedback here, this board is full of wonderfull people with great advice!

[Isabeau]

Re: Eating confusion

I agree with what has been posted. It is difficult at times to eat. We are saited on this woe. Are you still losing weight/inches? I'm like you in that I'm rarely hungry and I exercise vigorously 6/7 days. I do track like you do as well and try to keep my calories above my bmr on average. One thing I always do is get my three cups of veggies in per day. I view that as my 'base' carb intake. Always, no matter what. The rest for me seems to fall into place. I am taking OWL very slowly. I've been very fortunate to not have had a plateau period at all. I'm not a fast loser but I've been consistent. I think for me, it's been the level of exercise I've been doing. That's the one thing I like about this woe, it really makes you learn about your body. Hang in there.

[Elsie150]

Re: Eating confusion

Here is what a typical day would look like.

Yesterday...

Breakfast (8am-9am)
2 extra large eggs & 1 oz cheddar cheese (omelet)
2 med slice bacon

Lunch (12pm-1pm)
3.5 oz romaine
4.5 oz cucumber
6 oz hamburger patty(I love these prefab things), sprinkled with ceyanne pepper, cut up and added to salad...like a taco salad..very yummy!
1 T dressing

Snack (2pm-3pm)
5 oz watermelon
1 oz heavy cream

Dinner 9(5pm-6pm)
1 stuffed pepper (Linda's site)(I took 4 oz of cheese out of her recipe)
5 oz cauliflower
1 T sour cream

Snack(7pm-9pm)
Whey Protein Isolate drink
(I would usually have a salad in here as well if I didn't get it in at dinner but didn't yesterday...would add about 100 more calories to the day)
Calories 1585
Fat 65%
Carbs (36- 26g 7%
Protein 27%

Was too full to get my second salad in but usually when I am on course I would also have a second salad either at supper or as my night snack. That would add another 100 calories about to the above.

I lost 2 pounds this week. I am really happy with this as I thought I would not lose anything due to whatever was going on with me tummy getting bloated earlier in the week. I am also 1 pound below my set point so hopefully I can get further away from it next week as it is still close enough to make me nervous!!

I have been losing steadily since starting 9, 3, 1, 2, 2, 2, 3, 2. Part of this success is knowing that while climbing the rungs it does not mean adding more calories to your day. I still try to aim for my BMR.

It is really nice to hear that others are really spending the time balancing stuff out in fitday. And by your stats that it is paying off! I really thought I was the one of very few that did more than just enter their stuff and let the numbers/ratios fall where they may.

Thanks for answering imgonnagethin and Isabeau!! Much appreciated!

[AllieCat0817]

Re: Eating confusion

You have to figure out (through trial and error) what works for your particular body.

[not2late]

Re: Eating confusion

I am confused.

Some advice I have gotten here.

Eat only until you are full
Eat no lower than your BMR but should between AMR and BMR
Eat 30% protein
You are not eating enough calories
Just add more fat

1. Eat only until you are full.

It's eat until your hunger is satisfied. "Full" and "satisfied" are two different things. Chapter 11, section "Blast off! You’ve begun—Munch Away" DANDR 2002

I encourage you to eat until you are satisfied. Just don’t confuse being satisfied with being stuffed. If you have been overweight for a long time, it may take you a while to distinguish between the two sensations. If you are not sure, stop eating before you feel full and see if you are still hungry a few minutes later. If you are, have a few more bites and stop again. Repeat until you are satisfied. Soon you will discover you are pleasantly full sooner and can avoid that feeling of getting up from the table feeling as stuffed as a Thanksgiving turkey.

Dr. Atkins describes "satisfaction" in Chapter 18, section "Time to be strict", as "that place where you say ‘I could eat more, but I am satisfied’"

So, if your after meal "fullness" is feeling stuffed like a Thanksgiving turkey, then you are overeating and you need to relearn what 'satisfied' is.

2.Eat no lower than your BMR but should between AMR and BMR/
You are not eating enough calories

BMR (Basal Metabolic Rate) is the amount of energy your body needs to minimally live. It's basically the amount of energy your body needs to carry on the life if you were in a coma.

AMR (Active Metabolic Rate) is the amount of energy your body needs to do activities beyond the BMR. If you eat more than your AMR, your body will store the excess energy as fat or glycogen.

If you eat consistently below your BMR, your body will think it's in a famine/starvation state. Initially, your body will not lose weight, because it is trying to preserve what little precious energy it has. Then your body will begin to cannabalize itself by breaking down your muscle and fat. Muscle will go first. Fat will be used last because eventhough fat is energy rich, it also takes energy to break it down into usable components.

3. Eat 30% protein

Before Atkins died, Duke University conducted a study on Atkins Dieters. They analyzed the Atkins menu and found that it supplied about 75% fat, 30% protein and 5% carbs during the Induction phase. As the dieters progressed through the diet, the fat percentage decreased slightly and the carb percentage increased slightly. Protein, however, stayed the same.

58% of the protein we eat is converted to sugar by our bodies. This holds true for ANY amount of protein we eat. So, if we eat 100 grams of protein, 58 of those grams will be converted to sugar. Any excess sugar (sugar that our bodies don't use immediately for energy) is stored as glycogen and as fat.

What happens if you eat too little protein? Protein consists of things called amino acids. Amino acids are used by our bodies for enymes, co-factors (things that help power the chemical reactions in our bodies), hormones, muscle, antibodies, etc. If you eat too little protein, your body will begin to breakdown it's protein stores---your muscles. In the meantime, you develop something called "protein malnutrition". So, your body won't function as efficiently as it could and in very severe cases, it will stop functioning.

They call Atkins "high protein" because a scientist in the early part of the 20th century did a study on protein. Specifically, he set out to find the minimum amount of protein the human body needed to live. It was something like 0.5 grams per kilogram body weight. That was the minimum. The early part of the 20th century is interesting because there were a number of religious sects that were vegan and supported their religious communities by selling vegetarian/vegan foods---specifically breakfast cereals. And somehow this "minimum" amount of protein the body needs to sustain life, became twisted as the "maximum" amount of protein the body needs.

4, Just add more fat

This typically holds true for Induction phase dieters only. Especially the Induction people who are used to eating low fat.

Fat is a double-edged sword. The fat to carb ratio is important to start ketosis. BUT fat is also energy dense. So if you overdo the fat, you overdo calories and if you overdo calories, you risk gaining or not losing weight.

[iyamamaschke]

Re: Eating confusion

I find my appetite totally sucks I had trouble eating as well so I just eat small amounts every 2 hours and it helps with the little bit in my body every few hours I don't have to stuff myself I feel more energized and I am never hungry. It's like snacking all day that's how the prtions are but, I was able to get my calories up and I have actually been losing more weight since I started doing this there is something to say for eating lots of times during the day. Like most everyone eles said you just have to find something that wors for you.

Sarah

[Elsie150]

Re: Eating confusion

Thanks Allie Cat.

Megs...So according to your post I am currently eating until FULL..and eating below my BMR and not getting enough calories. To get enough calories and to eat above my BMR I will need to eat until I am STUFFED.

Can anyone give me the math to convert the .5 grams of protein into 215 pounds.

If that is the minimum a body needs why are we not also lowering our protein as well as our fat while raising the carbs?? Why does it need to stay at 30%. Especially if 58% gets converted to sugar. Also...I am having trouble already getting the 30% in when I am shooting for my BMR. Yesterday I had 107 grams which was only 27% of my day which was under my BMR. I am NEVER over.

So it sounds like I am going to go into starvation mode and protein malnutrition...but I was before with the protein anyway as I am eating way more protein than before.

How important is it to stick to the ratios and keeping the calories up? How can my body go into starvation mode when it has so much fat still to feed off of? Wouldn't it be more likely to happen if I only had a little fat to use?? Have any studies been done on this?

Iyamamaschke..yep...almost grazing with the food seems like some days. You sure can tell it is working for you!!

Thanks everyone!

[not2late]

Re: Eating confusion

Thanks Allie Cat.

Megs...So according to your post I am currently eating until FULL..and eating below my BMR and not getting enough calories. To get enough calories and to eat above my BMR I will need to eat until I am STUFFED.

Our stomachs have something called "stretch-receptors". The stomach is a bag made of muscle that can stretch to accomodate food. When the food stretches the stomach those stretch receptors are activated and they send a message to your brain that your stomach is "full" or "stuffed" depending on the amount the stomach has been stretched. So any food that is bulky, in the sense that it takes up alot of space, will help to stretch the stomach. But there's a catch to this: the stomach is a muscle and can stretch. It's like a balloon or like an broken-in sweater or pair of jeans. The stomach has adapted by allowing itself to be stretched to accomodate the size of a "normal" meal. So, if you have consistently put in a large amount of food, and suddenly on Atkins, you put in a smaller amount but of equal calories, your stomach won't feel "full" or "satisfied" because it's not sensitive to that smaller amount. And that's why you'll need to re-train yourself and your stomach.

2 cups of cooked broccoli has about 100 calories---about the same number of calories a tablespoon of butter has. So what is bulkier (takes up more space)? The 2 cups of broccoli. So if you eat 2 cups of broccoli, your stomach will feel more "full", than if you ate 1 tablespoon of butter. 2 cups of broccoli and 1 tablespoon of butter have approximately the same number of calories. That's why it's better to go on how you perceive hunger rather than relying on the "fullness" of your stomach to gage "satisfied".

The stretch receptors are also unique in that it takes generally 20-30 minutes for them to send a signal to your brain. So if you are a person who eats fast (an entire meal in 10-20 minutes), you will still feel "hungry" and will eat more than you really need to eat because those stretch receptors haven't sent the "reaching capacity" message to the brain. That's the theory behind enjoying a "leisurely" meal---it gives your stomach and brain time to communicate.

Can anyone give me the math to convert the .5 grams of protein into 215 pounds.

If that is the minimum a body needs why are we not also lowering our protein as well as our fat while raising the carbs?? Why does it need to stay at 30%. Especially if 58% gets converted to sugar. Also...I am having trouble already getting the 30% in when I am shooting for my BMR. Yesterday I had 107 grams which was only 27% of my day which was under my BMR. I am NEVER over.

To convert pounds to kilograms, divide the pounds by 2.2. But beware of the 0.5 grams per kilogram figure, because that number was based on healthy, young, male US Army recruits. Protein requirement varies with your age, sex, and activity level.

Again that is the "minimum", a body requires and it's like walking a tight rope, because if you dip below the minimum, you fall into the malnutrition arena.

The sugar from the protein we eat is figured into the Atkins diet. See, for our bodies to breakdown protein and convert it to sugar, we require energy to do it. So the energy we use to convert that protein to sugar, more or less evens out, provide we don't overeat the protein, because the excess is stored as glycogen and fat.

So it sounds like I am going to go into starvation mode and protein malnutrition...but I was before with the protein anyway as I am eating way more protein than before.

Which is good for you to eat protein. Protein has gotten a bad rap because protein foods from animals have fat. And we all know fat has gotten a bad rap.

You need protein. Even vegetarian need protein which is why they hae to eat combinations of legumes and grains. Legumes are a good protein source, but their protein doesn't supply all the amino acids our bodies need. So they have to eat grains to get those missing amino acids.

How important is it to stick to the ratios and keeping the calories up? How can my body go into starvation mode when it has so much fat still to feed off of? Wouldn't it be more likely to happen if I only had a little fat to use?? Have any studies been done on this?

Again, depending on how large your fat reserve is, you might be able to get away with eating below your BMR more than a person with a smaller fat reserve. BUT our bodies are smart. They know when they are being starved and will slow down our metabolisms to help conserve energy.

[Isabeau]

Re: Eating confusion

Great post Megs.

[womanpraised]

Re: Eating confusion

Lots of information. The Eades' book, Protein Power, addresses the minimum protein requirements of various types of folks, and is a good companion read when doing Atkins.

[Elsie150]

Re: Eating confusion

So much to learn but some of it is sinking in. I will try to find some more calorie/carb dense recipes. Since I am on the rungs I do have the carbs to play with I am up to 27 and still losing 2 pounds a week...of course this is with trying to eat at my BMR...which, as I said is a lot of food since I am not ever hungry. Thanks so much for taking the time to explain all of this to me!!!

Woman...I will look that up ....thanks!