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  • Please Advise: Mainly Fat Vs Mainly Protein

    Hi everyone,

    i really want to understand in detail how my body works on atkins - this will help me finetune my diet - believe me I am very determined and never break a regime.

    I am a male, 30y.O., 181cm (5'11") tall, currently 91kg (200lbs)

    if anyone can please answer questions below I will be very grateful.

    Here are some questions based on observations over 2 months:

    1) is there anything wrong with the reasoning/regimes below?
    2) any suggestions?
    3) what's the correct explanation of the facts below?

    Notes:
    ------

    a) have been doing atkins 3 years ago - was losing very quickly.
    B) I gained a lot after I stopped smoking 8 months ago.
    C) weight loss now is not apparent
    d) all readings were taken with tanita innerscan body composition monitor (see below for available data).
    E) thoughout the course of this experiment all necessary vitamins and fiber (with probiotics) have been religiously taken.
    F) pure water intake has been 3+ litres per day.
    G) intensive exercise 5 days a week in the morning

    month 1
    -------
    i have been following a virtually carb-free (<7-10g of any carbs) diet of ca. 1800kcal a day for a month from 9 jan to 8 feb.
    The foods have been chosen in such a way that the amount of fat (in gramms) in the diet was equal or exceeded the amount of proteins (in grams).

    Findings:
    ---------
    a) ketostix indicated a very high rate of ketosis
    b) overall weight loss was insignificant - about 1kg (2.2lbs)
    c) fat/muscle redistribution was significant (loss of 4kg (9lbs) of fat, gain 3kg (6.5lbs) of muscle)

    at the end of the period any changes to the body composition or body weight stopped - ketostix still indicated high rate of ketosis.

    My reasoning was as follows: I am burning the fat I consume instead of fat stored in my body (still showing ketones), so I should switch to protein only diet to maintain muscle mass and burn stored fat for energy.
    Here is what I did in month 2.


    Month 2
    -------
    again I have been following a virtually carb-free (<7-10g of any carbs) diet of ca. 1800kcal a day for a month from 9 feb up until now.
    This time a typical day's foods would be:
    breakfast: 3 fried eggs, beef burger
    lunch: 2 lambchops
    dinner: 1 porkchop or 1 chicken leg
    late snack: 70g of salami

    findings: see detailed data below
    ---------
    a) ketostix show no or little ketosis (could be due to all ketones released from stored fat being washed out of the body with the water intake)
    b) no fat loss, any fluctuations in weight due to muscle mass changes (regained over the weekend when little or no exercise)
    c) perceived fitness is better (i.E. I look more muscular - subjectively)

    am I doing something wrong or just reached a plateau - if so what should I do differently. What's wrong with the reasoning above?

    0 - date
    1 - body mass (kg)
    2 - muscle mass (kg)
    3 - bone mass (kg)
    4 - fat mass (kg)
    5 - body fat (%)
    6 - body water (%)
    7 - visceral fat rating (1-45 the less the better)
    8 - physique rating (1-10 the more the sportier)
    9 - metabolic age
    10 - basal metabolism rating (kcal)

    ___0_____1____2__3___4___5_____6___7_8_9__ 10
    ------------------------------------------ ----------------------------
    09-feb-07 92.6 69.6 3.6 19.4 21.0% 56.0% 7 2 34 2,162
    11-feb-07 92.7 69.5 3.7 19.5 21.0% 55.0% 7 3 34 2,169
    12-feb-07 93.3 71.6 3.6 18.1 19.4% 58.0% 6 4 31 2,212
    13-feb-07 92.2 70.9 3.6 17.7 19.2% 58.0% 5 5 29 2,220
    14-feb-07 91.1 68.2 3.6 19.3 21.2% 54.0% 7 2 36 2,113
    15-feb-07 91.6 69.2 3.6 18.8 20.5% 54.7% 6 2 33 2,150
    16-feb-07 91.3 70.1 3.6 17.6 19.3% 55.8% 6 5 29 2,175
    17-feb-07
    18-feb-07
    19-feb-07 91.2 69.4 3.6 18.2 20.0% 55.2% 6 2 31 2,154
    20-feb-07 91.3 69.9 3.6 17.8 19.5% 55.6% 6 5 30 2,170
    21-feb-07 92.0 70.5 3.7 17.8 19.4% 55.7% 6 6 29 2,189
    22-feb-07 92.4 70.5 3.7 18.2 19.7% 55.6% 6 6 30 2,191
    23-feb-07 92.9 71.1 3.6 18.2 19.6% 55.6% 6 6 30 2,208
    24-feb-07 92.9 71.9 3.7 17.3 18.6% 56.5% 6 6 27 2,232
    25-feb-07
    26-feb-07 91.7 69.9 3.6 18.2 19.8% 55.4% 6 5 31 2,170
    27-feb-07 90.6 69.1 3.6 17.9 19.8% 55.3% 6 5 31 2,143
    28-feb-07 89.9 68.4 3.6 17.9 19.9% 55.0% 6 5 31 2,123
    01-mar-07 90.4 69.0 3.6 17.8 19.7% 55.4% 6 5 31 2,141
    Last edited by Richt; March 5, 2007, 07:53 AM.

  • #2
    Re: Please Advise: Mainly Fat Vs Mainly Protein

    Um, veggies? Where are the veggies? Please eat your veggies! Remember that veggies are GOOD carbs - good for fiber, vitamins, minerals and general yumminess.

    Add 20 grams of veggies per day, as outlined in Dr. Atkins' book.

    Your ratios should be higher in fat than protein. As your carb level increases, it will be the fat percentage that will decrease. I believe the magic number for protein is 30? Someone will be around to correct me, I'm sure.

    Please!!

    I hope this helps you.

    Stacy
    F/45(!?)/5'11"
    Highest Weight: 254
    Current Weight: 248 (7/30/09)
    Lowest Atkins Weight 196
    Desired Weight: unknown, but below 180
    1st Goal: 245

    Don't be afraid that your life will end,
    be afraid that it will never begin.
    sigpic
    Yes, these are wolves. Glorious wolves!

    Comment


    • #3
      Re: Please Advise: Mainly Fat Vs Mainly Protein

      I agree you need to add vegetables. Its essential to your health and success on this WOE. Also you may even need to up your calorie intake. For all the exersize you do your body might be resistant to let go of any more fat. I think you can make up the calories by just adding salads and veggies to your diet. Sometimes its takes longer than we think it might take to lose the pounds we want. Its hard to get a grasp on that when most people seem to have miraculous weight loss during induction. For others they dont see the loss until the move onto OWL. Be sure you move up your rungs. It will be much more enjoyable and easier to stay on this WOE when you have more options to choose from.
      Re-Start Date 11/29/08
      Height 5'4
      Female 47
      SW 160.2
      CW150
      GW 130
      Mini Goal 150 -met/ New Mini Goal 145


      Comment


      • #4
        Re: Please Advise: Mainly Fat Vs Mainly Protein

        High protein diets are not healthy for you, they are what gave Atkins the bad rep of killing people. Eating virtually no carbs is not healthy for you and does not help you lose weight. It doesn't matter how many vitamins you take to try and make up for it, it's not the same. Nothing is better than getting nutrients from your foods. I personally think that you should read the book and follow what Dr. Atkins outlined to do since really nothing can compare in terms of results to that.

        Now for the rest. I am assuming that your percentages would be like, 55/45 for fat vs. protein in the first month or something close to that. Your percentages should be 65/30/5. This is a high fat diet, not a high protein diet. The reasoning behind is that your body learns how to process fat better by living off of it. So if you eat more fat, it has to work to burn that fat, and then it knows how to work less hard to burn the fat on your body. I hope this makes sense as a very brief explanation. If you're not eating enough fat to teach your body this, it won't work the same for burning it off of you. This is all written in the book and I think that $6 or whatever would be a good investment for you if you're looking to truly understand this.

        I would also ask what you qualify as "intensive exercise"? Is it cardio? Weights? A combination of the two? Is it 10 minutes of intensive exercise? 2 hours?

        The ketostix would have given you a higher reading since your fat was higher... the higher your fat intake is, the higher your fat outtake is.

        I don't know what else to tell you, you're basically doing Atkins backwards, and I think that if you continue to eat like this you're going to hurt yourself.
        27/f/5'10"
        HW - 312, LW - 172 (Jul 2007), CW - 205, GW - 160

        Comment


        • #5
          Re: Please Advise: Mainly Fat Vs Mainly Protein

          Thanks everyone for the replies so far.

          I actually do own the book, it's just that I read it quite a while ago and did it then successfully. I should have read it again this time. I will restart with the right ratios.

          As for exercise:
          I do 30mins weight machines + 30 mins swimming Mondays/Fridays
          45 mins body pump Tuesdays/Thursdays
          1h:15mins of ahtanga yoga on Wednesday

          Comment


          • #6
            Re: Please Advise: Mainly Fat Vs Mainly Protein

            I agree with Lyssie. If you have been eating NO carbs, what nutrients have you been getting? I am guessing that you are well on your way to being malnourished. Also your figures state that your BMR is around 2100 calories. You should be eating close to your BMR each day.

            Please, read the book. I think you should check out the stickies and FAQs on the board while you're waiting. If you want to do Atkins, then do ATKINS. Do not do something hazardous and uninformed.

            Atkins is NOT NOT NOT high protein. Atkins is high fat. Think of it this way. By following the Atkins plan, our bodies are burning fat for fuel. We need to eat fat in order for our bodies to run properly. It's like a car that needs gas. If your car needs fuel, do you give it oil? NO, you give it gas. Give your body what it needs to run.

            By eating that much protein, you're surely left with an excess of it in your body. Excess protein turns to glucose, which ultimately turns to fat.
            START 8/16/06 @ 270+~MG1: 220-12/2/06~MG2: 210-1/07~MG3: 199-3/2/07~MG4: 190-4/27/07~MG5: 180-7/04/07~GOAL: 170
            RESTART 11/2/09 @ 224.6~MG1: 215~MG2: 210~MG3: 205~MG4: 199~MG5: 195~MG6: 190~MG7: 185~GOAL: 180

            F / 28 / 5'8" FITDAY

            Missoula Marathon 7/13/08 5:41


            Non-Celiac Gluten Intolerance
            GLUTEN-FREE since 10/08

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            • #7
              Re: Please Advise: Mainly Fat Vs Mainly Protein

              I do BodyPump Tuesdays and Thursdays!! but ours is an hour long class... It's really fun though!!

              I don't think those are intense workouts though.
              27/f/5'10"
              HW - 312, LW - 172 (Jul 2007), CW - 205, GW - 160

              Comment


              • #8
                Re: Please Advise: Mainly Fat Vs Mainly Protein

                Dr. Atkins points out in his book that excess protein will be turned into glucose (SUGAR) and stored as FAT. So, eating too high protein also defeats your purpose.

                Please re-read your book, and follow the plan the way it was written and it will work. There are many many goalies here on this board (and I'm about to become one of them) who can tell you that if you follow the plan the way it was intended, you'll lose weight and be VERY healthy. I eat vegetables and dairy and fruit (ALL HEALTHY CARBOHYDRATES) and am very satisfied with my diet. I have added LOTS of healthy muscle mass without eating too much protein and have reduced my body fat significantly. My cholesterol, blood pressure, and blood glucose numbers are all outstanding and my doctor is happy.

                If you are going to put the effort into this (and with your detail, you're putting LOTS of effort into it) then do it the right way so that it works.
                ~Joy

                Start 1/2/06 Goal 6/11/07 restart 1/2/09
                268.5/196/185
                QUIT SMOKING JULY 23, 2006 while on Atkins


                Just when you think you've eaten enough vegetables...EAT SOME MORE!
                http://www.fitday.com/WebFit/PublicJournals.html?Owner=ride2joy

                Comment


                • #9
                  Re: Please Advise: Mainly Fat Vs Mainly Protein

                  Again, thanks everyone for advice and support.

                  Given, that I am going to do it right this time I am already planning next week's menu.
                  The thing is that I really have very little time for my meals - it's either supermarkets or takeaway.
                  Can anyone point me to some posts on this site or elsewhere with sample weekly menu's of around 2200kcal a day? But with simple foods one can easily buy in a supermarket ready to eat? (I also have a butcher's shop near work - they do cooked meat as well)

                  Again, I appreciate eveyone's help

                  (I live in London, supermarket nearest work is Tesco - for UK people on this board)

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Re: Please Advise: Mainly Fat Vs Mainly Protein

                    Tyson has pre-cooked chicken breasts/thighs/drumsticks, green giant has veggies that are nuke and go, that have butter sauce stuff with them (green beans, cauliflower, brussel sprouts, broccoli), sliced deli meats with some mayo & mustard blended together, I'm not really sure whether you mean you never eat at home or just always eat something quick? There are pre-cooked buffalo wings which can be either nuked or baked, with blue cheese... most of my food is things that are pre-made or I can make on the weekend and take and go...
                    27/f/5'10"
                    HW - 312, LW - 172 (Jul 2007), CW - 205, GW - 160

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Re: Please Advise: Mainly Fat Vs Mainly Protein

                      To answer Lyssie's question - I rarely if at all eat at home on weekdays - I work long hours, so I eat breakfast, lunch and dinner at work. Ideally I would buy all my food from a supermarket ready to eat. (What does it actually mean to 'nuke' veggies)?

                      I'll probably put the menu question into a separate thread.

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Re: Please Advise: Mainly Fat Vs Mainly Protein

                        Can you boil some eggs once o twice a week so you have them on hand? Then you can grab a couple boiled eggs in the morning to take with you to work with no preparation. Does your supermarket have a salad bar? Do they have rotisserie chickens and things like that? You could have a menu like this for a typical day.

                        B - 2 hard-boiled eggs
                        Snack - 2 oz. Cheddar cheese
                        L - Chicken Caesar Salad (or some other kind of salad with chicken on it from the store)
                        Snack - Sliced deli ham (amount will vary)
                        D - 1/4 - 1/2 rotisserie chicken & 1 cup broccoli or some other veggie you can get.

                        There is a whole forum for reviewing menus here:
                        http://www.atkinsdietbulletinboard.c...splay.php?f=50
                        Higgies
                        ----------------------

                        (Wish I still looked that good! LOL!)
                        33 y/o - Male
                        1st go around Started: 7/29/2004, Made Goal: 03/17/2005 HW: 286 / GW: 195 / Went off Atkins June, 2008
                        2nd Go Around: Started 1/4/2010 SW: 239/ CW: 233/ GW: 220

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Re: Please Advise: Mainly Fat Vs Mainly Protein

                          Originally posted by Lyssie
                          Tyson has pre-cooked chicken breasts/thighs/drumsticks, green giant has veggies that are nuke and go, that have butter sauce stuff with them (green beans, cauliflower, brussel sprouts, broccoli), sliced deli meats with some mayo & mustard blended together, I'm not really sure whether you mean you never eat at home or just always eat something quick? There are pre-cooked buffalo wings which can be either nuked or baked, with blue cheese... most of my food is things that are pre-made or I can make on the weekend and take and go...
                          Not to be a buzzkill, but read the ingredients on the Green Giant "butter" and "cheese" sauces. Last time I checked, they had starch fillers and are not induction friendly.

                          I just melt cheddar over broccoli in the microwave and I know there's no weird commercial stuff in that.
                          Female, 41
                          Height: 5' 8"
                          SW 193/CW 176/GW 164

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                          • #14
                            Re: Please Advise: Mainly Fat Vs Mainly Protein

                            I don't eat the cheese sauce, it has some insane number of carbs. I don't think the butter sauce has any/much since it's like, 2g net carbs/serving on the ones I buy... then again, I don't have a box with me to look.
                            27/f/5'10"
                            HW - 312, LW - 172 (Jul 2007), CW - 205, GW - 160

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Re: Please Advise: Mainly Fat Vs Mainly Protein

                              Atkins 1992 book did say on the Induction diet, to take at least one medium salad a day. And, when adding carbs on later phases, he recommends adding veggies for those carbs. And, I certainly think he was correct.

                              However, I do not believe there is any MDR (minimum daily requirement) for carbs, nor for veggies as such, which is what some of you seem to imply. That is the same error the AMA made when it decided to introduce obesity as the national trend. One takes vitamins; minerals; and fiber supplements to fill all your needs.

                              However, the Eskimoes lived in the North for thousands of years, and one thing you can be sure of, there are no veggies on the ice floes of the Arctic Ocean. They ate meat and fish at least six months of the year, and got their vitamins and minerals from the organs of creatures they killed for food. I have wondered what they did for fiber, and I must guess they ate a lot of gristle, but sure wish I knew.

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