Ketosis Problem.

[Hayden]

Hello All,

For the past nine days, my body has not returned to Ketosis since it left due being served a small full sugar glass of coke, when a small diet coke was requested.

Over the past nine days I have lost just under 2kg, but I have been going to the Sports Club every other day, and doing 90 minutes hard swimming each time.
I am sure that my weight loss has only been due to the swimming.

My diet has been following the rules of (Extended) Induction, which given the amount of weight I still have to loose, seems to be the phase best for me. Given the results of the check list that you have to do at the end of induction.

However, I have yet to re-enter ketosis.

I am sorry that I have not had the fore-sight to write down what I have eaten over the past 9 days, or (never) used fitday.

Please could some-one guide me to a review-my-menu post, that I could follow instead of my own Induction menu.

I'm not breaking any of the Atkins rules, however, I also think I'm doing something wrong. I'd just like to narrow down the percentages.

(or as us Engineers say "find out exactly where the *uck-up fairy is paying a visit")

If any anyone on this board wrote down their menu, or could direct me to any menu that worked when you needed to re-enter ketosis.

My intention is to take a menu suggestion and then just follow it blindly the same way, at least for a week, or until I re-enter ketosis.

My own induction rule following menu, entered me, and sustained ketosis, previously, but strangly not this time.

Sorry that this email is written in a very Engineer 'right brain hemisphere' style of logic.

I am just a "if before A+B+C= OK , and yet it has changed to A+B+C= Broken.
Plus, Nothing in A or B or C has changed.
Then something in A or B or C has changed. Remove individually A, then B, then C. should give the defective element." kidda guy.
Obviously in this case, A's and B's and C's are food choices, and = OK or = Broken is the state of ketosis.

Many thanks in advance.

[*Emma*]

Re: Ketosis Problem.

my god hayden that was hard reading....!!

Just interested in knowing why you think you're not in ketosis... ketostix? or you just *know*?

you can have a look in the "review my menu" section of the baord for some menu's... be sure to read the responses to them too!

if youre doing the same as you did before i cant see why you would not be in ketosis, if its the ketostix then its understandable as they dont always work and theres certain thinkgs you shouldnt do when testing...

[Hayden]

Re: Ketosis Problem.

Hi Emma,
Yes a bit long winded, sorry. I tried to highlight the question in bold. Just wanted to give a reason why, I was asking the question. However, you're right it's a bit much.

So, the ketosticks are not turning any colour. However, I just don't *feel* like I am in ketosis. That taste in the mouth isn't there. The two, do kinda match.
MitziMarie before, also gave me the same advice as you about not (never) trusting the ketosticks.

I wouldn't be posting this thread, if I could taste the ketosis, but I can't

The "review my menu" section, is exactly where I want to go. There are is just so much good advice, I'd just like hand-holding to direct me to one or two good posts of menu's that worked, when people were knocked out of ketosis.

"Can't see the wood for the trees"
or
"Too, bloody lazy"

You could argue my request both ways

However ........

my god hayden that was hard reading....!!

Just interested in knowing why you think you're not in ketosis... ketostix? or you just *know*?

you can have a look in the "review my menu" section of the baord for some menu's... be sure to read the responses to them too!

if youre doing the same as you did before i cant see why you would not be in ketosis, if its the ketostix then its understandable as they dont always work and theres certain thinkgs you shouldnt do when testing...

[*Emma*]

Re: Ketosis Problem.

yep, never trust the sticks, personally they work for me but i know they dont for others, remember you should never test in a morning and never after exercise, also if you're drinking your water you could dilute the results again - making the results pretty pointless...

what about appetite supression? none of that?

i think ALL the posts are good ones because if there was anything incorrect in them it is pointed out, its pointless to post you one of my menu's... maybe others on induction can come along and do that....

are you sitting within your induction allowances? sometimes we lapse when it comes to extended induction and eat too much of the cheeses, creams, avocado. olives, all things that i never personally touched anyway - but i understand some people can have problems with them... are you staying away from bars/shakes/sf desserts/ aspartame etc

[Hayden]

Re: Ketosis Problem.

Just from your reply below, I spotted 5+ things I might be doing wrong over the past 9 days.

Yes, I have been testing in the morning, and after exercise, and I've been drinking a massive amount of water.

Yes, I do have appetite suppression?

Yes, I've been eating a lot of cheese. The red baby bell cheese. 6 a day in fact.

Yes, I been making guacamole with 3 avocados plus a little onion, and jalapeno peppers, and lemon juice. Eaten that amount over 3 days, then made some more.

Yes, I drank 100ml of 35% fat pure cream three times.

Not eaten any olives. The bars/shakes/sf desserts are not on sale in Japan.

Yes, drank a lot of aspartame. Coke Zero to be exact.

So.. Where do you think I might be going wrong?

Okay, lesson to be learnt. I can stay legal with legal foods and vegetables, but still cock it up.

Harder than it looks, isn't it?

yep, never trust the sticks, personally they work for me but i know they dont for others, remember you should never test in a morning and never after exercise, also if you're drinking your water you could dilute the results again - making the results pretty pointless...

what about appetite supression? none of that?

i think ALL the posts are good ones because if there was anything incorrect in them it is pointed out, its pointless to post you one of my menu's... maybe others on induction can come along and do that....

are you sitting within your induction allowances? sometimes we lapse when it comes to extended induction and eat too much of the cheeses, creams, avocado. olives, all things that i never personally touched anyway - but i understand some people can have problems with them... are you staying away from bars/shakes/sf desserts/ aspartame etc

[Elizellen]

Re: Ketosis Problem.

As Emma says, 'Extended induction' menus are the same as induction menus for the first 14 days, which = foods on the allowed foods list to the limits laid down there.
What foods on that list do you like/have available?

My usual induction menus ran something like this
b/fast options (I dont cook in the morning before work)
piece of crustless quiche and some cherry tomatoes
couple of slices of microwaved flax bread with butter and marmite or chream cheese plus some cherry tomatoes
leftover pork chop plus some mushrooms
ham/cheese rollups plus some cherry tomatoes

Lunch (usually eaten at a local restaurant/cafe)
cheese/ham omelette (make sure no milk or batter added) and salad (lettuce/cucumber/toms/peppers) and mayo
roast chicken (no gravy) and salad or steamed veggies with butter over them
pork chop with salad or veggies/butter
bacon/eggs/mushrooms/tomatoes

Evening meal
crustless quiche with cooked veggies
curried chicken or pork with 'caulirice'
pork chop with cabbage/onions
Aubergines (eggplants) sliced and topped with bacon/ham and cheese
Courgettes (zucchini) cooked the same way
Home made sausages (no fillers) with sautééd onions and green beans
Hamburger/cream cheese pie(aka wooshie pie) with cooked veggies

Hope this helped

[*Emma*]

Re: Ketosis Problem.

Just from your reply below, I spotted 5+ things I might be doing wrong over the past 9 days.

Yes, I have been testing in the morning, and after exercise, and I've been drinking a massive amount of water.

Yes, I do have appetite suppression?

Yes, I've been eating a lot of cheese. The red baby bell cheese. 6 a day in fact.

Yes, I been making guacamole with 3 avocados plus a little onion, and jalapeno peppers, and lemon juice. Eaten that amount over 3 days, then made some more.

Yes, I drank 100ml of 35% fat pure cream three times.

Not eaten any olives. The bars/shakes/sf desserts are not on sale in Japan.

Yes, drank a lot of aspartame. Coke Zero to be exact.

So.. Where do you think I might be going wrong?

Okay, lesson to be learnt. I can stay legal with legal foods and vegetables, but still cock it up.

Harder than it looks, isn't it?

sure is! but there ya go, we all lapse at some points when we get in to this WOE, just takes a swift kick to the hind to make you realise!

avocados are half a day right? so you need to cut down on that one slightly, cheese should be 3-4 oz, so cut that down slightly, but i reckon your biggest problem in the coke zero!

[Hayden]

Re: Ketosis Problem.

As Emma says, 'Extended induction' menus are the same as induction menus for the first 14 days, which = foods on the allowed foods list to the limits laid down there.
What foods on that list do you like/have available?

Please can I supply a list?

*All the meats and fish, I like.

*Vegetables
LIKE: mushrooms
LIKE: parsley
LIKE: peppers
LIKE: chives
LIKE: lettuce
LIKE: romaine lettuce
DON'T LIKE: alfalfa sprouts
DON'T LIKE: daikon
DON'T LIKE: arugula
DON'T LIKE: endive
DON'T LIKE: bok choy
DON'T LIKE: escarole
DON'T LIKE: celery
DON'T LIKE: fennel
DON'T LIKE: radicchio
DON'T LIKE: chicory
DON'T LIKE: jicama
DON'T LIKE: radishes
DON'T LIKE: cucumber
DON'T LIKE: moche
DON'T LIKE: sorrel

*Other Vegetables
LIKE: rhubarb
LIKE: bamboo shoots
LIKE: snow peas
LIKE: bean sprouts
LIKE: turnips
LIKE: water chestnuts
LIKE: onion
DON'T LIKE: artichoke
DON'T LIKE: celery root
DON'T LIKE: pumpkin
DON'T LIKE: artichoke hearts
DON'T LIKE: asparagus
DON'T LIKE: chard
DON'T LIKE: sauerkraut
DON'T LIKE: collard greens
DON'T LIKE: scallions
DON'T LIKE: dandelion
DON'T LIKE: dandelion greens
DON'T LIKE: spaghetti squash
DON'T LIKE: beet greens
DON'T LIKE: eggplant
DON'T LIKE: spinach
DON'T LIKE: broccoli
DON'T LIKE: hearts of palm
DON'T LIKE: string or wax beans
DON'T LIKE: broccoli rabe
DON'T LIKE: kale
DON'T LIKE: summer squash
DON'T LIKE: brussels
DON'T LIKE: kohlrabi
DON'T LIKE: tomato
DON'T LIKE: leeks
DON'T LIKE: cabbage
DON'T LIKE: okra
DON'T LIKE: cauliflower
DON'T LIKE: zucchini

*Salad Garnishes
LIKE: crumbled crisp bacon
LIKE: grated cheese
LIKE: sauted mushrooms
LIKE: sour cream
DON'T LIKE: minced hard-boiled egg

*Spices
LIKE: All spices to taste on the induction list.

*Acceptable Fats and Oils
Just cook in Extra Virgin Olive oil, or butter.

*Artificial Sweeteners
Can't buy Splenda in Japan. Not an approved food-stuff, apparently. !!

*Acceptable Beverages
DON'T LIKE: Clear broth/bouillon
DON'T LIKE: Decaffeinated coffee or tea.
DON'T LIKE: Herb tea
CAN'T BUY IN JAPAN: Diet soda made with sucralose (Splenda).
LIKE: Filtered water
LIKE: Mineral water
LIKE: Spring water
LIKE: Tap water
LIKE: Club soda
LIKE: Cream, heavy or light
LIKE: Essence-flavored seltzer
LIKE: Lemon juice or lime juice.

*Special Category Foods
LIKE: olives,
LIKE: Avocado,
LIKE: sour cream
LIKE: lemon juice or
LIKE: lime juice

*Convenience Foods
Too risky in Japan. Not eaten.

[sadie147]

Re: Ketosis Problem.

If you can't get Splenda, try stevia...I do konw that Japan is one of the few countries where Stevia is approved as a sweetener. It is also ok to use. We can buy it here but only as a suppliment. It takes a bit of getting used to...but works well for sweetening and you can cook with it. I also use Sodium Cyclamates, which have never cause me an issue. They're not really talked about in DANDR as they are not approved in the US...but i've never had problems with them and know several other ppl who also have had good experience with them. Not sure if you can get them there but worth a look.

Try writing down exactly what you are eating for 2 or 3 days, with amounts etc and post it in the 'review my menu' without that it's very hard to pinpoint what the problem could be.

[Elizellen]

Re: Ketosis Problem.

Please can I supply a list?

From your list of 'likes' I see many possibilities for delicious interesting recipes, Hayden
Here are just a few ideas:

Your salads can be interesting and colourful with lettuce, peppers, mushrooms and parsley and sprinkled with chopped chives - add some raw beansprouts or snow peas too if you like them.


Make stir fries with bamboo shoots, snow peas, bean sprouts, water chestnuts, onion, mushrooms, chives and peppers as a veggie dish, or add meat or eggs for a one-pot meal.

Turnips can be used as potato substitutes – mashed with butter and/or cream cheese, layered with onions and covered in cheese and baked in the oven or boiled first to soften and sliced /layered and grilled to melt the cheese, cut into sticks and deep or shallow fried – though they wont taste like potatoes, the mouthfeel is similar.


Many of the veggies can be simply sliced and sautééd in butter or oil to make a tasty topping for any meats – I like peppers and/or mushrooms for this.


Rhubarb can be eaten raw (if you like ‘sour’) or simmered in sweetened water and used as a dessert – topped with whipped cream.


Think laterally, meals can be anything you like to eat at any time - there is no such thing as a 'breakfast food' - I often have eggs and bacon for lunch or supper and leftover meat and veg for breakfast!!

[ValidRouge]

Re: Ketosis Problem.

Hayden, my advice to you (because this has recently worked VERY well for me and I'm in maintenance) is to limit the special category foods (olives, avocado, cream, etc.) Really focus on just eating vegetables, meat and fat. The fat can come from olive oil, butter, mayo (in moderation). The special category foods can really creep up on us fast. Make sure your meats are fatty cuts of pork, beef, eat the skin on your chicken. If you are eating a very lean cut, add fat like olive oil or butter. NOT GOBS of it. A measured tablespoon here or there will suffice.

Be aware of your protein. If you are overeating protein and not getting enough of the fat and the vegetables....this will keep you from ketosis. Because Atkins is not a high protein diet, but a high fat one. Excess protein is converted to glucose.

[Hayden]

Re: Ketosis Problem.

Thank you, sadie147 & Elizellen Thank you so much.
I will take your advice with me to the supermarket tomorrow.

[Hayden]

Re: Ketosis Problem.

If you are eating a very lean cut, add fat like olive oil or butter. NOT GOBS of it. A measured tablespoon here or there will suffice.

This is worth knowing. I've been worrying that I've not been eating enough fat.
I know that Atkins is fat to carb ratio diet, and not a carb to protein diet. I read that somewhere on this board before, but I can't remember where.

Be aware of your protein. If you are overeating protein and not getting enough of the fat and the vegetables....this will keep you from ketosis. Because Atkins is not a high protein diet, but a high fat one. Excess protein is converted to glucose.

Please can I request some more advice about this?

How can I find numbers about when the protein amounts become much?

Is there an on-line calculator? Or a rule-of-thumb that I could use?

Excess protein is converted to glucose. Where is the threshold?

I only hope I can return the kindness to all that have had the kindness to reply to me. I write that genuinely.

[thexproject]

Re: Ketosis Problem.

The K-Stix's didnt work for me (ever), and I am still loosing. To see what your looking for, www.fitday.com, you can input all the foods you eat during the day/week and it has a little pie chart at the top, u can see daily/weekly/monthly. Great site. and free.

[ValidRouge]

Re: Ketosis Problem.

Yes, use Fitday. Enter all your food and it will show you the percentage of calories. We should aim for 65% fat, 5% carbohydrate and 30% protein. Try to keep protein at or below 30%, try NOT to go over 30%.

I've read (though, not scientific studies) of keeping your protein between 1/2 of your ideal weight and your ideal weight in grams. So, for me...I want to weigh 175 lbs. So, divide that in half and I get about 87 grams. So, I need to eat between 87-175 grams of protein in a day. (But, not to exceed 30% of your daily calories in protein).

THere are some threads on here...I'll try to find them for you, that discuss this.

You are welcome to look at my fitday. This would be NOT for induction, but for Ongoing Weight Loss phase rung 1--Vegetables. I'm eating 35-40 net carbs per day with all but 5-6 coming from anything other than vegetables. Note that on the public page, you can't see the fiber. Most days I'm getting around 30 grams of fiber from my vegetables....which keeps the body regular.

http://fitday.com/WebFit/PublicJourn...Owner=ride2joy

I've only been "faithful" to my fitday for about the last 7 days.

Here is a great thread about fat http://www.atkinsdietbulletinboard.c...ad.php?t=17102