Ug! Lettuce

[SunnySmile501]

Re: Ug! Lettuce

Broccoli isn't induction friendly? I thought it was...oops. I've misplaced my copy of the book. Oh, darn *snaps fingers* guess I can't it that nast--I mean tasty stuff

Broccoli is very induction friendly! So are green beans!

How far are you along in your Atkins? That is what phase of Atkins are you in and how long have you been there?

If you are on Induction Phase, no you cannot eat broccoli and green beans as long as you don't go over 20 net carbs daily. Well, you can, but you aren't doing Atkins.

This is how rumors get started! LOL Both broccoli and green beans are in the list of veggies other than salad veggies, of which you 'may' have one cup of in addition to the allotted salad veggies on Induction. If she's not having salad veggies, she can have a lesser amount (because they have more carbs) of these instead, as long as they come out at the correct amount of veggie carbs.

Sunny!

[Elizellen]

Re: Ug! Lettuce

. If she's not having salad veggies, she can have a lesser amount (because they have more carbs) of these instead, as long as they come out at the correct amount of veggie carbs.

Not according to DANDR, Sunny

2 cups of 'salad vegetables (I wish he hadnt called the list that as so many people think they 'have' to have lettuce - I think of them as '2-3 cup vegetables') plus one cup of the 'other vegetables' list.

As Megs said - many of the '2-3 cup' list are nicer cooked and also shrink down to make a smaller portion which might be helpful for those who dont like eating them raw!!

[SunnySmile501]

Re: Ug! Lettuce

Link to the Acceptable Food List for Induction http://www.atkinsdietbulletinboard.com/forums/showthread.php?t=6781

Here is the 'other vegetables' from the acceptable food list for induction:

Other Vegetables
You can have one cup per day of these veggies if salad does not exceed two cups. The following vegetables are slightly higher in carbohydrate content than the salad vegetables:

artichoke
celery root
pumpkin
artichoke hearts
rhubarb
asparagus
chard
sauerkraut
bamboo shoots
collard greens
scallions
dandelion
snow peas
bean sprouts
dandelion greens
spaghetti squash
beet greens
eggplant
spinach
broccoli
hearts of palm
string or wax beans (green beans)
broccoli rabe
kale
summer squash
brussels sprouts
kohlrabi
tomato
bean sprouts
leeks
turnips
cabbage
okra
water chestnuts
cauliflower
onion
zucchini
If a vegetable, such as spinach or tomato, cooks down significantly, it must be measured raw so as not to underestimate its carb count.

[Evermind]

Re: Ug! Lettuce

I feel the exact same way about salad. I would willingly eat it once or twice a week, especially if I can go to SouPlantation and have all of those choices. But otherwise, no way.

So what I do is make a two-cup serving of spinach leaves into something I can choke down in a few bites. I take 2 cups of raw spinach and sautee them until JUST limp in butter or olive oil. Then I add a couple of drops of lemon juice.

When it is limp, or wilted like that, it can be swallowed in 3 bites. Seriously. And that's my salad veggies for the day.

[SunnySmile501]

Re: Ug! Lettuce

Not according to DANDR, Sunny

2 cups of 'salad vegetables (I wish he hadnt called the list that as so many people think they 'have' to have lettuce - I think of them as '2-3 cup vegetables') plus one cup of the 'other vegetables' list.

As Megs said - many of the '2-3 cup' list are nicer cooked and also shrink down to make a smaller portion which might be helpful for those who dont like eating them raw!!

So what you are saying is that if she gets her 12 to 15 veggie carbs from cabbage, broccoli, cauliflower, green beans, Brussels sprouts (her list of veggies that she does like) that she won't get into ketosis and lose weight?

How does that jive with Dr. Atkins saying vegetarians can do the diet when they don't eat meat (as long as they will eat dairy and eggs)? He prescribed a special vegetarian version of the Induction diet to hundreds of vegetarians. He said, and I quote: "...creating a diet enjoyable enough to stay on for life, a point I consider to be essential to dietary success."

I equate this statement with telling the OP that she 'has' to eat stuff she hates or she can't do the diet. How is that creating a diet enjoyable enough to stay on for life? If I HAD to eat something I hated, I wouldn't stay on it for long. Making it workable within the confines of the right amount of veggie carbs seems to me to be the sensible thing to try. She's not asking to substitute anything not already on the acceptable food list. I reminded her of the other salad veggies and she doesn't like them either.

I do think that she and other veggies haters should keep giving them a try. I know from experience that I have learned to love stuff I had to force myself to eat at the beginning--like mayo, butter, fatty meat, dark meat poultry, pork rinds LOL, and so on. I didn't even like meat much at all; now I love it. I've always loved all veggies.

Just for the record, I lost most of my weight while not able to eat any of the salad veggies due to severe diverticulitis and finally surgery removing my colon last summer. The only legal veggies I could tolerate were stewed summer squash (both zucchini & yellow squash), occasional sautéed baby spinach and green beans. I couldn't eat anything raw or even hard to digest veggies, cooked.

This is just my opinion, but I think it is valid for people that hate the salad veggies.

Sunny!

[not2late]

Re: Ug! Lettuce

So what you are saying is that if she gets her 12 to 15 veggie carbs from cabbage, broccoli, cauliflower, green beans, Brussels sprouts (her list of veggies that she does like) that she won't get into ketosis and lose weight?

No, we are saying that according to the Induction chapter that is not how to do Induction. As you quoted from the book "You can have one cup per day of these veggies if salad does not exceed two cups." It doesn't say anywhere that if you don't eat the salad vegetables you can eat more of the other vegetable list, so long as you don't exceed 20 net carbs daily.

How does that jive with Dr. Atkins saying vegetarians can do the diet when they don't eat meat (as long as they will eat dairy and eggs)? He prescribed a special vegetarian version of the Induction diet to hundreds of vegetarians.

The book said that if you are a vegetarian, you might find Induction too restrictive and you might have to start in On-Going Weight Loss phase.

He said, and I quote: "...creating a diet enjoyable enough to stay on for life, a point I consider to be essential to dietary success."
I equate this statement with telling the OP that she 'has' to eat stuff she hates or she can't do the diet. How is that creating a diet enjoyable enough to stay on for life?

The weight loss phases aren't for life. And certainly Induction is not the only phase in which we will lose weight. Nor was it envisioned to be the primary weight loss phase of the diet. If it was, it would be puzzling why Dr. Atkins called the second weight loss phase "On Going Weight Loss". Once we move onto Maintenance Phase, we can eat pepperoni pizza if we wanted and if having pepperoni pizza occasionally makes our life time diet more enjoyable.

If I HAD to eat something I hated, I wouldn't stay on it for long. Making it workable within the confines of the right amount of veggie carbs seems to me to be the sensible thing to try. She's not asking to substitute anything not already on the acceptable food list. I reminded her of the other salad veggies and she doesn't like them either.

I don't think people should be forced to eat anything they don't like. But then there are 21 vegetables listed on the "salad" list. All of which, including the lettuces, can be cooked. The OP said she liked cooked vegetables and specifically listed cabbage, well, bok choy is on that "salad" list and when cooked it has a taste similar to cabbage. Fennel is on that "salad" list and when cooked it looks like and tastes similar to cabbage.

I do think that she and other veggies haters should keep giving them a try.

I completely agree with you and so does Dr. Atkins in chapter 8. There are 21 vegetables on the "salad list" and 34 vegetables on the "other list". We have had people in the past who have said they don't like any of the vegetables listed in either list. I used to be a vegetarian, and I know there are some vegetables listed on either list that are very hard to find in supermarkets and green grocers. In fact, prior to actually growing it myself, the only times I've had sorrel was in high end French restaurants. I also know as a former vegetarian, that many people don't like certain vegetables or vegetables in general because they never had them prepared properly before.

Just for the record, I lost most of my weight while not able to eat any of the salad veggies due to severe diverticulitis and finally surgery removing my colon last summer. The only legal veggies I could tolerate were stewed summer squash (both zucchini & yellow squash), occasional sautéed baby spinach and green beans. I couldn't eat anything raw or even hard to digest veggies, cooked.

And just for the record, during my weight loss, I rarely ate raw vegetables and very rarely ate lettuce because I preferred to choose the "salad" vegetable that are more suited for cooking. I also lost the majority of my 200 plus pounds eating the higher carb vegetables, but then I lost the majority of my weight during the On-Going Weight Loss Phase, not during Induction, which lasts a minimum of 14 days and has no benefit for people who do not have a high metabolic resistance to weight loss.

[not2late]

Re: Ug! Lettuce

And by the way, I've been around this board long enough to have seen people who cannot eat vegetables on that "other list" in quantities greater than the Induction amounts because those vegetables cause blood sugar instabilities for them. We've had people who are affected by tomatoes, broccoli, eggplant, onions, etc.

Dr. Atkins had over 40 years experience developing and revising his diet. He put foods into specific categories and made up rules for a reason.

[Evermind]

Re: Ug! Lettuce

I think we can finish this bout by stating as follows: If you do not eat the 2 cups of salad veggies during induction, you are not following Atkins Induction by the book.

[SunnySmile501]

Re: Ug! Lettuce

Okay! Okay! I concede. I give up. Waving the white flag. I surrender! Truce? I'll even admit that I know less than nothing and I didn't do Atkins right.

Carry on, Atkineers!

Sunny!