Control vs Obsession

[Patriciabuon]

Re: Control vs Obsession

Wow! I had no idea what a hornets nest I was disturbing. The vehemence of reactions has been surprising to me. A lot of negative language and "who does she think she is?" attitudes. I voiced a genuine worry I have about a society that drives our kids to become anorexic. This forum is clearly not a place to do anything more than agree, not a place to pose questions. I wasn't trying to undermine anyone. I wasn't trying to tell anyone what they should or should not eat. I am an advocate of Atkins - as I clearly stated - and am currently moving gently out of an extended induction. But I am concerned about 19 year olds obsessing over everything that goes into their mouths and over a moralistic view that some foods are 'good' and others are 'garbage' - especially when they form part of the national identity of others. If I ruffled your feathers, or 'yanked your chain' that wasn't my intention. I had hoped for some open minded debate about what I think is a serious problem. What I got was a flurry of defensiveness and that is even more worrying.

[Hudson]

Re: Control vs Obsession

Well I'm a man so I don't have to obsess. But I am in my third year now and the last two have been basically a trial and error on how to take Atkins and make it mine. I realize that I can't count carbs all my life. (a personal weakness I suppose) But I have to live low carb. Eating high carb is always a disaster for me - I lose control. At this point I eat apples regularly and lower carb fruit. I have just about figured out how to have a baked potatoe every now and then. Still no rice or pasta but no great desire for it either.

Early on I was completely dedicated - Atkins by the book. But your idea of enjoying these cultural foods is very dangerous for most of us. What does a bowl of pasta lead to?? Another bowl of pasta and then half a pizza, a bag of chips, 38 donuts and a gallon of ice cream.

I think when we eventually get where we are supposed to be with Atkins. At a goal weight with a very good understanding of what different foods do to us. You have a reasonable point. At Thanksgiving a spoon full of dressing, or maybe a very small bowl of pasta.

You have to remember, we are not "healthy eaters". At least I'm sure not. I have a problem. Eat carbs and lose control. I know a lot of people that do not have this problem. Carbs seem to satisfy them. But sometimes eating a few cultural carbs is like offering a recovering alcoholic a little "cultural wine". Very dangerous.

And the bottom line. Your health is more important than any cultural food enjoyment. For me it's the people not the food.

[Dotultimate]

Re: Control vs Obsession

I think what Patriciabuon is saying is a valid point.

I like all of you am INCREDIBLY strict with what I eat. I dont cheat, ever. I count everything and i'm obsessional. It sounds like she is too. I think the point is that in our attempt to put ourselves in the mindset that allows us be so controlled, we completely lose sight of what is actually 'ok' for society. We are all obsessional, thats why we are here, but we do need to cut our selves a little slack is mishaps occur.

Its great we are all so proud of ourselves for being strict and achieving out goals, but we need to give ourselves a break if we make a little mistake. After all - we are human. These things happen.

I hope to one day feel comfortable indulging in other foods occasionally, however right now I'm in a mindset that will not allow it. Perhaps i will stay here forever

[Hoping]

Re: Control vs Obsession

Thank you for your response Mitzi
I had forgotten about serious food addictions.

I agree with Dotultimate, though. I also still stand by my first post: it's not just us, it's been happening for a long long long time

[mitzimarie]

Re: Control vs Obsession

Thank you for your response Mitzi

You are very welcome, Hoping. I appreciate your response, as well.

This will always be an issue where many of us will need to learn how to agree to disagree.

[Lamby-pie]

Re: Control vs Obsession

There is no moderation with an addiction. Some of us can afford a cheat, some of us cannot.
A pizza dinner at the end of July has caused me to gain 8 pounds back, out of the 29 I had lost. I am currently struggling to overcome a sugar/ starch addiction. I am having a very hard time.
Moderation may be okay for you, for me it poked a sleeping dragon into a rage. I wish I had walked away from that pizza dinner. I thought I could control it. I couldn't.
I don't see too many anorexic children. I do see a lot of overweight kids who will end up sick, with low self esteem, and burdens on our health care systems. I don't see anything wrong with teaching kids to enjoy healthy foods. If I had learned healthy eating habits as I child, I wouldn't have been 175 lbs. in high school.
I need to treat sugar like an addictive drug. I need to think it as "bad" to overcome my addiction and get back on the horse.
Surely I simply lack your self- discipline, but...I guess that's the way I am.

[Patriciabuon]

Re: Control vs Obsession

Hang in there Lamby-pie. You are right, I don't have an addiction and that's nothing to do with will power, just how I'm made. I agree with people who have commented that you don't suggest to an alcoholic that he just drink every now and then, or in moderation. He simply has to stop. So ... all power to the sugar/starch addicts who are taking their lives back into their own control. There are probably many people like me too. I have overly efficient storage mechanisms and at 62 this gets harder and harder to battle as my metabolism slows down. I can have a small piece of pie and stop. But every small piece adds up and if I don't monitor very closely they can add up to gained pounds. I have different needs in weight control and I am sure there are other profiles out there too. We are all so different, with different needs and problems. That's what makes us all so fascinating. Right?
As a retired school principal I can assure you that as well as the frightening number of over weight kids out there (too many sodas and junk food) there is also a dangerous number of potential and actual anorexic kids. It begins in elementary school and gets worse in middle and high school as the pressures to conform to the herion-thin super model image get stronger. Many of our hospitals have special programs to assist with anorexic teenagers.

[Jaded]

Re: Control vs Obsession

Patricia, I understand your concern in a lot of ways. When I did Atkins in 2003 it was my first "diet" and I did it clean and had a lot of success. But I let the obsession with becoming thin (for a boy who turned out to be a giant #%#$@) affect me psychologically. I went through 2 months where I barely ate anything and after I was put back on track by some friends/family, I developed a binging problem.

So although certain foods have no nutritional value, a small amount/"treat" is your choice (but then again its not Atkins friendly). But for others, having that bite is like playing jenga, and a lot of times the control/sanity they've brought back to themselves by following Atkins topples down on them.

[not2late]

Re: Control vs Obsession

Atkins and the low carb WOE has been of great help to me. Given that, reading through this bulletin board has caused me to question the almost obsessive attention given to food intake and weight. I read so many anguished comments from people (usually women) distressed about possibly having thrown the weight loss process off track by eating just one small but unacceptable item. There are a few great pleasures in life and culturally food has always been one of them. In every society we find the sharing of food to be at the heart of many family, cultural and religious celebrations. Reducing this joy associated with food and company to a morsel by morsel accounting of carbs, undermines one of our most significant sensory pleasures. Some of my most glorious memories involve my family and friends seated around a dining table enjoying conversation, wine and wonderful food. How do you tell an Italian to cut out the pasta, an Asian to end the centuries old love affair with white rice or a Frenchman to cut out the pastries and the morning baguette and strawberry jam? We have an obesity problem in the western world born of supersizing, fast food and soda drinking. I see people in the supermarkets so fat they cannot walk. Instead they drive their motorized carts around and fill them with chips, sodas, high sugar, highly processed 'foods' that I would only ever regard as treats. Let's move towards moderation instead of obsession. I'd much rather be the rounded woman I am and still be able to share a piece of pecan pie or have an icecream at the beach on a hot summer's day, that be whispy thin and counting every carb I consume. I need to be able to share a bowl of pasta from time to time with my Italian husband. Rubens painted wonderfully rounded woman. Marilyn Monroe was a size 14. Let's not be sucked into the 'one model' view of women - thin and boyish. I'll stick with my curves and thank Dr Atkins for making sure I have a way to keep my curves from becoming flab. Please, let's not become obsessive and lose the love of all the wonderful cakes, sauces, wines, breads and more that are a part of our culture. Moderation, not elimination.

I look at it like this....if we were able to exercise some control over our foods in the first place, many of us wouldn't be on a weight loss diet. For many of us, we were not able to be "moderate" when it came to our diets. So we are now on Atkins because our inability for "moderation" has transformed our curves into rolls of fat, which in turn has done other things like given us high blood pressure, type 2 diabetes, high cholesterol, increased our risk for stroke and heart attack, and the list goes on.

Since we are already in the fat range, we have to cut back on foods in order to lose that excess body fat. When Dr. Atkins said you cannot eat X, Y, and Z during Induction, it was for this reason: One cannot lose fat while following the same lifestyle that made that fat appear. This "elimination" is a temporary one because many foods, including that rice, that pasta and that baguette can be included on the Maintenance Phase of Atkins. But getting to Maintenance phase is dependent on the dieter. If the dieter takes a lot of breaks along the way, that dieter is only prolonging the time it takes to finally reach their goal.

Is losing weight easy? Nope. It's hard work---most things in life that are worthwhile typically are. It takes commitment. I've seen people come here and 'commit' half-azzed to it. Inevitably, they fall off, restart, fall off, restart, fall off, restart, and so forth. The saddest thing is that they haven't improved their life/health by their half-azzed commitment. On the other hand, I've seen people come here and truly commit to doing this diet--no cheats, no excuses--and they are at goal or very close to it and their health has improved vastly.

What it all boils down to is this: what's more important, eating that piece of pie today or your life? I chose life, because I---my health, my life---is more important than any piece of pie or a bowl of pasta will ever be.

[Brook]

Re: Control vs Obsession

The bottom line for me - and a lot of people here- is really quite simple.

If I were capable of moderation, I wouldn't have wound up weighing 234lbs , smoking 2 packs a day, and so unhealthy a trip to the park with my kids was something I avoided like the plague.

If something works for you, work the heck out of it. I don't stand in judgement of anyone's food choices any more than I want or need someone to stand in judgement of me or mine.

I also think it's extremely unfair and short sighted to take the topic of discussion on a "diet" board and claim that anyone here is obsessive. We have a 5 minute window into people's souls that post. That's it. This board is topic specific in nature. It's not hard to imagine that we would post about that topic. Obsessive? Nahhh. But we can't pretend to have a clue what the other 23 hours 55 minutes of anyone's day is focused on.

[Patriciabuon]

Re: Control vs Obsession

As Jaded said, some of us can afford an occasional bowl of Mama's pasta ... and some of us cannot. Some of us have addictions, some of us just over indulge and some of us store all too easily. We each have different problems and we each find our own solutions. For some of us weight loss is literally a matter of life and death. For some of us it's about fitting into that special pair of jeans or new swim suit. Unfortunately, for some us, it can also be about having a distorted body image and an obssessive interest in losing more and more weight. To be truly supportive of one another we need to take into consideration which group others might fall into. If it's about life and death, no, don't vary from the formula until you are safe and then only if you are not an addict to the foods that caused the damage in the first place. But if one looks at the details and suspects that we may be dealing with a vulnerable individual who is already a healthy weight and is sounding 'obsessed' about losing more, we must be very careful about the kind of advice we offer. Atkins works. Significant excess weight kills. So does anorexia.

[misplaced southerner]

Re: Control vs Obsession

hey.....i have followed this thread with interest. i am just curious, if you don't mind me asking...do you have a personal experience with anorexia? my daughter is 11 and i am very aware of the way the media and the world puts pressure on our girls especially to be thin. she is genetically thin but eats a very healthy diet.

i have made it a rule NOT to use the word diet. she knows that mom is healthy. she sees me exercise daily. she is learning to make healthy choices. she is SO PROUD of me for my weight loss because she has seen me set a goal, literally work my a$$ off and ATTAIN IT! not because i am a skinny girl. i am so proud that i showed her how to set and attain a goal and be healthy.

i think that if we model healthy behaviors with our eating and exercise we can teach our children to do the same. atkins, if done properly is not freakish or extreme. it is VERY healthy. it is the healthiest i have ever eaten. it is the best i have ever felt, it is the best i have ever looked.

we are all different. my best friend does low fat. i'd die on that. i think we know what works best for us and those of us here do best on a low carb plan.....that is WHY we are here. so i guess debating the issue is, well, i don't know. like trying to convince me that i can lose weight doing low fat. i can't. so,,,,just my inquiring mind at work. always interesting to hear what others are thinking.

[not2late]

Re: Control vs Obsession

As Jaded said, some of us can afford an occasional bowl of Mama's pasta ... and some of us cannot. Some of us have addictions, some of us just over indulge and some of us store all too easily. We each have different problems and we each find our own solutions. For some of us weight loss is literally a matter of life and death. For some of us it's about fitting into that special pair of jeans or new swim suit. Unfortunately, for some us, it can also be about having a distorted body image and an obssessive interest in losing more and more weight. To be truly supportive of one another we need to take into consideration which group others might fall into. If it's about life and death, no, don't vary from the formula until you are safe and then only if you are not an addict to the foods that caused the damage in the first place. But if one looks at the details and suspects that we may be dealing with a vulnerable individual who is already a healthy weight and is sounding 'obsessed' about losing more, we must be very careful about the kind of advice we offer. Atkins works. Significant excess weight kills. So does anorexia.

And as I wrote in my post, Dr. Atkins said certain foods were off limits during the Induction Phase of his diet. There are 4 phases of the Atkins diet. 3 of them are weight loss phases. Induction is the first and strictest phase. It lasts a minimum of 14 days. After those 14 days, one can move to the On-Going Weight Loss phase, where if one chooses, one can add pasta back to their diet. If committing 14 days to not eating pasta or bread or pie is too much to handle, then there's something else that needs to be addressed in addition to the weight issue. The "elimination" of any food on Atkins is temporary, not permanent as you have insinuated.

And by the way, since you are relatively new to ADBB, I suggest you read more threads on ADBB before rushing to the judgment that we don't take the needs of those who fall onto the other side of the eating disorder spectrum into consideration. So please, do your homework before making any sweeping generalizations.

[Patriciabuon]

Re: Control vs Obsession

This is, indeed, a very interesting discussion, misplaced southerner, and I have learned a lot from the various responses. I am a little concerned about the way some of my comments have been interpreted though. Megs, it wasn't me who called pasta and white rice 'garbage' and I have never suggested that committing to 14 days without carbs is "too much to handle". I have always argued that Atkins works. I must also say that while I am new to writing to the ADBB I have, in fact, read a great number of threads. It was reading those threads that caused me to voice my concerns. I also made no "sweeping generalizations" and judged no one. You may well be a person who is careful about the advice you give, taking into consideration the age and needs of the other person as you perceive them. I hope (and assume) we are all such responsible responders.

[Patriciabuon]

Re: Control vs Obsession

Reply to misplaced southerner. I think I mentioned in an earlier post that I am a retired school principal. I am very aware of the way excessive control can lead to anorexia in vulnerable teenage girls. It can begin in elementary school! I have had no personal experience although a good friend of mine has a grand daughter who was hospitalized because she was in danger of dying through anorexia. Although little more than skin and bones, when she looked in the mirror she thought she was fat. It was as a result of reading some postings by young women who seemed desperate to shed more pounds when they were not overweight that led me along this track. But I think I've had enough. I never intended upsetting anyone, and have been very surprised by the strong language and feelings that have been directed at me. Bye folks!