Filler/artificial sweetener stalls?

[TitianWasp]

Now, here's a question. A lot of people worry greatly about carb fillers or artificial sweetener carbs causing stalls. However, technically, if one counts those nasty little things as part of the carb count, why would they cause a stall any more than the carbs in a bell pepper, for instance?

I am just trying to look at this from a scientific standpoint. What is the logic behind one carb causing a stall, and another not causing a stall?

I know it's "common knowlege" here that they can, but my question is why?

[not2late]

Re: Filler/artificial sweetener stalls?

Individual food intolerances.

[ValidRouge]

Re: Filler/artificial sweetener stalls?

Also, the powdered versions of sweetners (Sweet N Low, Splenda, Equal, Altern) use maltodextrin or dextrose as the powder or bulking agent for the sweetner. From what I've read (and experienced myself as I got closer to goal) is that the saccharine or the sucralose may not stall someone, but the bulking agent CAN. Maltodextrin is made from FOOD starch. Sometimes it's corn starch, sometimes it's wheat starch/gluten. So, if you have a food intolerance to grains in general, or specifically to corn or wheat...you would have an intolerance to the maltodextrin used to bulk/deliver/convey the artificial sweetner.

http://www.grainprocessing.com/food/malinfo.html
http://www.sugar.org/consumers/sweet...ure.asp?id=277
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dextrin

Also, note that this is a derivative of Sugar. Sugar and corn syrups, even in miniscule amounts can cause stalls.

[TitianWasp]

Re: Filler/artificial sweetener stalls?

Why would you suppose that anything causes a stall? Again, I am trying to think of this from a science perspective. The basic equation is calories in - calories expended = weight loss or gain. If something is going to stall me, or is reputed to stall me, I want to know why (so I can get good and mad, instead of curious and frustrated, ha ha).

Too many questions, I know.

[Momtofour]

Re: Filler/artificial sweetener stalls?

Why would you suppose that anything causes a stall? Again, I am trying to think of this from a science perspective. The basic equation is calories in - calories expended = weight loss or gain. If something is going to stall me, or is reputed to stall me, I want to know why (so I can get good and mad, instead of curious and frustrated, ha ha).

Too many questions, I know.

I don't know from a scientific perspective, but I do know it isn't as simple as calories in - calories expended = weight loss or gain. I have done other weight loss programs where my calories were kept low and yet I didn't lose much weight and then stalled. I for one, can not lose weight eating higher carb foods even when I keep my calories low.

[not2late]

Re: Filler/artificial sweetener stalls?

Again, it goes back to food intolerances. Our bodies are essentially bio-machines. If something interferes with its functioning, the body will function less efficiently and a disease state occurs. "Disease" meaning decreased operational efficiency. For example, if you lack potassium, your body will malfunction. In the most extreme cases, your heart will stop beating. In the most mild cases, you might feel fatigued.

What happens with a food intolerance is that our bodies considers the food an enemy invader and mounts an immune response to battle it. In other words, it sees the food as it would a bacteria or a virus that's trying to destroy the body. So the body does things: starts producing chemicals to combat the food, starts retaining water to "wall off" the spread of the invader, etc. A food intolerance can manifest as feeling fatigued or as anaphylaxis.

To make a long story short, that intolerance screws up your body's functioning level. The well-oiled machine stops being well-oiled and starts creaking and grinding. Just like your car, if the performance of the parts aren't optimal, it's function will be suboptimal itself. And since our bodies have a survival instinct, it will devote its energy to making sure you stay alive. So will stop losing weight and holding onto whatever energy reserves it can in order to keep you alive.

[jroche5998]

Re: Filler/artificial sweetener stalls?

I have some thoughts about the artificial sweetener question. Artificial sweeteners were originally developed back in the 1950's for diabetic patients who produced no insulin. While the sweeteners are non-caloric, the insulin response in people able to produce insulin has never been studied (if you know of a study I'd love to know), and it is believed by some that the artificial sweeteners actually trigger the exact same insulin response as real sugars, which directly corresponds to fat storage of blood borne glucose. So if artificial sweeteners do trigger an insulin response, than the fat storage machine is in full swing, and you are storing fat.

Also regarding stalls, I believe that while some foods can contribute to the issue, I think a lot of it is more basic than that. I think it's related to the fight or flight concept. Your body I think has comfort points, places at which your body is comfortable (not meaning to give the actual body sentient qualities). Once there your body fights to stay there, otherwise it thinks you are in distress. Think about it, there are probably some weights where you neither gained nor lost for long periods of time throughout your life. Those points, at least for me, ted to be stall points. Is it something physical or is it more psychsomatic? Do I subconsciously focus on those points, thus making the stall a self-fufilling prophecy? I don't know.

Just some points to consider.

[TitianWasp]

Re: Filler/artificial sweetener stalls?

Not2Late & JRoche very logical answers. If intolerance is compared to an allergy or inability to digest, it wouldn't make sense - that scenario leads to gi distress, but typically weight loss (you can't digest it = you can't make fat out of it). If it is more like a pathogen, mucking up the gears, that holds a lot more water theory-wise.

I wonder if I have some intolerances.

[not2late]

Re: Filler/artificial sweetener stalls?

Not2Late & JRoche very logical answers. If intolerance is compared to an allergy or inability to digest, it wouldn't make sense - that scenario leads to gi distress, but typically weight loss (you can't digest it = you can't make fat out of it). If it is more like a pathogen, mucking up the gears, that holds a lot more water theory-wise.

I wonder if I have some intolerances.

If you can't digest it, then you don't absorb the nutrients in it either. All the chemicals our body creates (hormones, enzymes, etc.) require nutrients---vitamins, minerals, proteins, carbs, and fats. If your GI tract is so screwed up that it can't absorb Vitamin X, then whatever body function depends on Vitamin X will be compromised.

Remember that song "the foot bone is connected to the leg bone"? Well, that's how the chemical functions of our bodies is like too. Let's say Vitamin X is used to produce Enzyme 24. Your GI tract can't absorb food nutrients properly, so Vitamin X isn't absorbed. Therefore, Enzyme 24 production is decreased or if it is produced it's a cheap version of it that doesn't function as well. Whatever depends on Enzyme 24 will be affected too and so on. This tosses a proverbial monkey wrench into your body-machine and it will function less efficiently, which means it will need to divert its resources to essential functions.

[not2late]

Re: Filler/artificial sweetener stalls?

Just adding....About what I wrote here: "Therefore, Enzyme 24 production is decreased or if it is produced it's a cheap version of it that doesn't function as well".


This is the theory behind trans fats and its effect on the body. The walls of our cells are made from fat/lipids. They think that the hydrogenated fats have some sort of weak structure. So when our body incorporates them into our cell walls, the walls are weak. In other words, it's like building a rock wall not using rocks, but using rocks made from styrofoam. So, the thought is that the bad cell walls makes the cells unstable, which might do things like make your platelets more "sticky" that they collect easier on blood vessel walls, etc.

[TitianWasp]

Re: Filler/artificial sweetener stalls?

Fascinating! As a recovering pre-med, I had a really hard time with some of the 'truths' that many people just accept. I had no disputes with the results, but couldn't accept the rationales with blind faith. I needed to know why. You've offered up some very valid theories.

I had not heard that about the transfats, but that also makes sense.

[kate58]

Re: Filler/artificial sweetener stalls?

calories in - calories expended = weight loss or gain

Nope. Not true. Obviously gross calorie overload will cause weight gain and starvation will eventually make you thin, but it really, really isn't as simple as eating less calories.

There is a LOT about this fallacy in Gary Taubes' book, "Good Calories, Bad Calories". Calories are not created equal. I don't have the book with me now, and the arguements in it are quite long and complex so I'll not try to give a short potted version here because I'd probably mess it up.

I'd really urge everyone to read that book.

[not2late]

Re: Filler/artificial sweetener stalls?

Taube's book should be coming in on Saturday, so I'll get to read it then.

I don't completely believe in the generic AMR and BMR calculations. I think caloric requirement is very individual (hinges on your metabolism/energy efficiency) and varies day to day. That's why I'm not a big fan of eating exactly 1500 calories per day: that number is based in part on "normal" activity. So what if I decide to take a day off from exercise and hide in bed all day? Theoretically, I won't need to eat all of that 1500 calories. Conversely, if I'm more active than "normal"---let's say I go on a hike in the woods---theoretically, I would require more than 1500 calories that day. I think Dr. Atkins was right about letting our bodies tell us how much food to eat at any given time. And they've done studies on babies and toddlers: unless prodded by well-meaning adults, babies and toddlers typically won't over-eat their foods.

And for women, I think daily caloric requirement will varies with your menstrual cycle. A woman's bod produces hormones, then the hormone production is shut down, while another is being produced. The uterine lining is being built up, then it's removed, etc. That all takes energy--making hormones, building up tissue, etc. It might explain the cravings before or during TOM---body needs extra fuel to support the TOM process.

But that's all speculation on my part----still it's something to think about while sitting in traffic.

[SunnySmile501]

Re: Filler/artificial sweetener stalls?

While the sweeteners are non-caloric, the insulin response in people able to produce insulin has never been studied (if you know of a study I'd love to know), and it is believed by some that the artificial sweeteners actually trigger the exact same insulin response as real sugars, which directly corresponds to fat storage of blood borne glucose. So if artificial sweeteners do trigger an insulin response, than the fat storage machine is in full swing, and you are storing fat.

Wasn't that one of the outcomes of the study(ies) on diet soft drinks??? The ones where they either don't help you lose weight and possibly cause you to gain?? I know I read that somewhere connected to diet sodas. I don't like sodas of any kind and use almost no sweeteners, so I didn't have much interest in the study.

Sunny!

[TitianWasp]

Re: Filler/artificial sweetener stalls?

I dislike water and after my daily quotient, drink either tea/coffee sweetened with splenda, or splenda sodas - but I wonder what effect dropping those entirely would have. I have a nasty reaction, headache-wise, to aspartame, so that was dropped long ago, but I have never gone without splenda since starting Atkins. That would actually be a toughie for me. I don't care for any unflavored beverages, plain tea, plain coffee included. Maybe I will have a go at that.

Wow - my first "rated" thread. I am so excited! (LOL)