Can't find the actual post, so I will post it here

[daquix]

A couple days ago or so, someone posted a thread talking about if your ketosis sticks are turning darker and darker, you are probably dehydrated ... not burning more fat. I thought it kinda made sense, but then I remember something Dr. Atkins said in the book that seems to contradict this. I'm not sure about the sticks that everyone else is using but mine show the deeper the color, the more amount of ketones in my urine. Dr. Atkins says in the book

"The more ketones you release, the more fat you have dissolved."

This leads me to believe that the darker the sticks, the more fat I have dissolved. I would have posted this in the thread I saw a couple of days ago, but I can't find it.

[sadie147]

Re: Can't find the actual post, so I will post it here

But if you are drinking a lot of water, that would dilute the keytones no?

I don't have anything to back that up, just what i would think would happen. the more water, the more diluted, the less water, the more concentrated.

i know I can be in ketosis and register nothing, then 2 hour later regiser pink.

If you've had alcohol that day, or the day before and it's still in your system they will register dark as well. which is a false reading. i know this from personal experience.

[daquix]

Re: Can't find the actual post, so I will post it here

But if you are drinking a lot of water, that would dilute the keytones no?

I don't have anything to back that up, just what i would think would happen. the more water, the more diluted, the less water, the more concentrated.

i know I can be in ketosis and register nothing, then 2 hour later regiser pink.

If you've had alcohol that day, or the day before and it's still in your system they will register dark as well. which is a false reading. i know this from personal experience.

What you said makes sense to me. I was just confused with "if it registers dark, then you are dehydrated" arguement, when the book states that if it registers dark, you are burning more fat.

[not2late]

Re: Can't find the actual post, so I will post it here

Our bodies produce 3 ketones during fat breakdown. The ketostix only tests for 1 of those ketones. Moreover that particular ketone isn't in the highest concentration: it's only about 18%. So if you want a really accurate picture of how much ketones you are producing, you need a blood test.

[daquix]

Re: Can't find the actual post, so I will post it here

Our bodies produce 3 ketones during fat breakdown. The ketostix only tests for 1 of those ketones. Moreover that particular ketone isn't in the highest concentration: it's only about 18%. So if you want a really accurate picture of how much ketones you are producing, you need a blood test.

I don't use ketostix. I use the sticks that are used in the hospital - the one that I have was given to me from my mothers office in the hosptial. It tests for about 10 different things, and the ketone tests up to 1,000/l or 4-5+ ... I can't remember how far the ketostix measured to? 500/l and 2-3+ ???

Anyway. This doesn't really matter as it doesn't have much to do with the original thread.

EDIT: Just for everyone's INFO, I am not trying to be a jerk. I just re-looked over my posts and they do sound jerky when reading them but that wasn't my intent. I guess its hard to express emotion over text. Sorry.

[LCer09]

Re: Can't find the actual post, so I will post it here

A couple days ago or so, someone posted a thread talking about if your ketosis sticks are turning darker and darker, you are probably dehydrated ... not burning more fat. I thought it kinda made sense, but then I remember something Dr. Atkins said in the book that seems to contradict this. I'm not sure about the sticks that everyone else is using but mine show the deeper the color, the more amount of ketones in my urine. Dr. Atkins says in the book

"The more ketones you release, the more fat you have dissolved."

This leads me to believe that the darker the sticks, the more fat I have dissolved. I would have posted this in the thread I saw a couple of days ago, but I can't find it.

If you're drinking enough water, don't worry about it. You are indeed washing out larger amounts of ketones, yay you! Darker doesn't automatically mean more, but it does tend to be the case that people testing darker can be skimping on the water.

The problem is when a theory like that is around these boards for a long time, it becomes gospel. "Dark purple? Oh, you're dehydrated!" Like I said, if you know you're getting in your daily minimum of water, enjoy flushing the fat out and do a happy dance!

[not2late]

Re: Can't find the actual post, so I will post it here

I don't use ketostix. I use the sticks that are used in the hospital - the one that I have was given to me from my mothers office in the hosptial. It tests for about 10 different things, and the ketone tests up to 1,000/l or 4-5+ ... I can't remember how far the ketostix measured to? 500/l and 2-3+ ???

Anyway. This doesn't really matter as it doesn't have much to do with the original thread.

EDIT: Just for everyone's INFO, I am not trying to be a jerk. I just re-looked over my posts and they do sound jerky when reading them but that wasn't my intent. I guess its hard to express emotion over text. Sorry.

Actually what I wrote does have alot to do with your initial post, since you specifically asked about the ketostix and the colors it turns. And as I pointed out, since the ketostix only measure 1 of the 3 ketones we produce and since that particular ketone comprises about 18% of the total ketone amounts, it really doesn't give much information in the big picture.

As for the ketostix and the Chem 10 strips, they use the same reagent to test for ketones. In other words, they test for the same kind of ketone in the same way. However there is an advantage to the Chem 10 strips. The Chem 10 strip tests for "specific gravity". Specific gravity indicates the concentration of the urine. Urine concentration is directly related to hydration. The higher the specific gravity, the more concentrated the urine. The more concentrated the urine, the less hydrated the person.

I've tested myself using the Chem 10 strips at work. And I've found that I have moderate ketones if my specific gravity is 1.025 or greater. IF I drink water and re-test, I find that my ketones drop to trace when my specific gravity is 1.010, a more hydrated state.

That's why testing the urine isn't a definitive tool. As you read in the book, Dr. Atkins even acknowledged that some people never turn the stix color, yet are in ketosis and lose weight. In an older book, he wrote that at the Atkins Center they used breath analysis to determine ketosis, not the urine test, but even that had accuracy problems.

As I wrote in my previous post, the most accurate ketone test is the serum test. The serum ketone comprises the majority of the ketones our bodies produce, about 80%. But that would require giving up blood every time you want to test your ketone level.

[daquix]

Re: Can't find the actual post, so I will post it here

Actually what I wrote does have alot to do with your initial post, since you specifically asked about the ketostix and the colors it turns. And as I pointed out, since the ketostix only measure 1 of the 3 ketones we produce and since that particular ketone comprises about 18% of the total ketone amounts, it really doesn't give much information in the big picture.

As for the ketostix and the Chem 10 strips, they use the same reagent to test for ketones. In other words, they test for the same kind of ketone in the same way. However there is an advantage to the Chem 10 strips. The Chem 10 strip tests for "specific gravity". Specific gravity indicates the concentration of the urine. Urine concentration is directly related to hydration. The higher the specific gravity, the more concentrated the urine. The more concentrated the urine, the less hydrated the person.

I've tested myself using the Chem 10 strips at work. And I've found that I have moderate ketones if my specific gravity is 1.025 or greater. IF I drink water and re-test, I find that my ketones drop to trace when my specific gravity is 1.010, a more hydrated state.

That's why testing the urine isn't a definitive tool. As you read in the book, Dr. Atkins even acknowledged that some people never turn the stix color, yet are in ketosis and lose weight. In an older book, he wrote that at the Atkins Center they used breath analysis to determine ketosis, not the urine test, but even that had accuracy problems.

As I wrote in my previous post, the most accurate ketone test is the serum test. The serum ketone comprises the majority of the ketones our bodies produce, about 80%. But that would require giving up blood every time you want to test your ketone level.

Gotchya. I'm not sure what the Chem 10 sticks are, but thats not what I use. I do see what you are saying though. Should we discount what he says in the book then? I mean if he is saying that the darker the sticks, the more fat you are burning, then by your aknowledgement, he is wrong? I'm confused.

[LCer09]

Re: Can't find the actual post, so I will post it here

Should we discount what he says in the book then? I mean if he is saying that the darker the sticks, the more fat you are burning, then by your aknowledgement, he is wrong? I'm confused.

If your water intake is constant, and no other variables are in place, then he is right. People are simply trying to point out that it's not that simple.

Dr. A was a geinus, and I love him to death, but writing for the masses was not his strong point. I think he never realized how literally everybody would take every single word.

[daquix]

Re: Can't find the actual post, so I will post it here

If your water intake is constant, and no other variables are in place, then he is right. People are simply trying to point out that it's not that simple.

Dr. A was a geinus, and I love him to death, but writing for the masses was not his strong point. I think he never realized how literally everybody would take every single word.

Thats a very good point.

I have been lurking on this board for over a year now and Not2Late is a very knowleadge poster, so I don't like to argue with what he/she says but I just don't understand exactly what a poster is meaning sometimes.

[mitzimarie]

Re: Can't find the actual post, so I will post it here

Why do you feel that you have to use the stix at all? I've never used them, and know many that haven't, who are very successful. And, I've seen those that get so hung up on the stix, that they lose sight of the big picture.

I just follow the plan to the letter, and go by how I feel. Once you know your own body, it's pretty easy to tell whether you are in ketosis or not.

[kate58]

Re: Can't find the actual post, so I will post it here

Megs and LCer09 are on the button, and if you think about it, there is no conflict with what Dr A says - though maybe there is an omission.

It might have been better to say that given a constant specific gravity (and probably pH and other parameters also) of urine the quantity of ketones present is likely to reflect the degree of ketosis. However that would have been as clear as mud to most people!!

Also, remember that all of these quick stick tests are intended for screening purposes only. Even the manufacturers do not claim 100% accuracy accross the entire population and nor can the sticks take account of individual variation like drugs in the system that may affect the results. Any results found on them are considered to be subject to confirmation by more accurate laboratory tests.

The test for ketones is one of the less accurate ones. As previously said there are many who never turn them even the lightest pink, eat by the book and lose weight. I am the opposite - mine are always dark purple, in spite of the fact that I drink ginormous quantities of water and am never dehydrated. I don't for a moment belive I am burning fat any more or any faster than those getting a pale pink result or none at all.

This actually arose some years ago when I was pregnant. On a routine test early in my pregnancy, the ketones turned purple - leading to a panic that I had ketoacidosis and needed treatment fast. A blood test intended to 'confirm' this result was negative - I was fine. Throughout my pregnancy I turned them purple, and never had any problems. So basically the sticks are sort of meaningless for me.

[not2late]

Re: Can't find the actual post, so I will post it here

Gotchya. I'm not sure what the Chem 10 sticks are, but thats not what I use. I do see what you are saying though. Should we discount what he says in the book then? I mean if he is saying that the darker the sticks, the more fat you are burning, then by your aknowledgement, he is wrong? I'm confused.

Chem 10 strips are the strips that they use in hospitals and medical clinics---they are the ones you say you are using.

no, I'm not saying to discount what's written in the book. I'm saying to read the book completely. If you read further in that section, you'll see that the last paragraph says

However, should your LTS not turn pink or purple, despite the fact that you are doing everything correctly, you may still show a decrease in appetite, an improvement in well-being, a loosening of you clothes and a slow but steady weight loss and reduction in inches. This simply means that you are not producing enough ketones to register on the LTS but enough to burn fat. Remember, the strips are tools, making them change color is not the sole object of the game.

So even Dr. Atkins says that you may be burning enough fat to lose weight, but not enough fat to turn those stix any particular color.

[daquix]

Re: Can't find the actual post, so I will post it here

Chem 10 strips are the strips that they use in hospitals and medical clinics---they are the ones you say you are using.

no, I'm not saying to discount what's written in the book. I'm saying to read the book completely. If you read further in that section, you'll see that the last paragraph says


So even Dr. Atkins says that you may be burning enough fat to lose weight, but not enough fat to turn those stix any particular color.

Right, but that is NOT what this thread is about. I never said anywhere in this thread that if the sticks don't turn color, then you won't lose weight. This whole thread was about Dr. Atkins saying in the book that the darker the color gets, the more ketones you are releasing, which means the more fat you are burning. Nothing about other stuff.

Perhaps "Chem 10 strips" are what they call them ... its just not the name on the bottle.

[daquix]

Re: Can't find the actual post, so I will post it here

Why do you feel that you have to use the stix at all? I've never used them, and know many that haven't, who are very successful. And, I've seen those that get so hung up on the stix, that they lose sight of the big picture.

I just follow the plan to the letter, and go by how I feel. Once you know your own body, it's pretty easy to tell whether you are in ketosis or not.

You make a great point also. I simply use them as phsychological help. Dr. Atkins talks about that in the book also.