Do you really need EIGHT glasses of water?

[Chicklady]

Re: Do you really need EIGHT glasses of water?

Chicklady:
Yes, the diet is diuretic, because we lose all the carbs, and carbs hold onto water. That's the majority of weight lost during induction. Your point is a good one, but not original.

When people refuse to believe when the truth is put before them, I have to belive they've already drunk the Koolaid (and probably peed it right back out!)

So I guess the snarkiness is necessary. Well, go for it. However, it tends not to win friends and influence people.

[Debi2007]

Re: Do you really need EIGHT glasses of water?

Unfortunately, the eight, 8 oz glasses of water a day myth is alive and well in these forums.

I think this is the comment that started it all.

There are many, many knowledgeable people on this board and many that have been incredibly successful on this program. To have a standard is a great thing and to try to reach that standard gives us something to achieve. I don't think I have ever seen anyone put another person down because they didn't drink the exact amount of water stated. However, I have seen so much encouragement. This board to me is all about encouragement and support and trying to reach goals. The only thing I see as "unfortunate" is the way these conversations sometimes turn into bickering. Ultimately we all have to do what is right or what we feel is right for our bodies.

[Chicklady]

Re: Do you really need EIGHT glasses of water?

I think this is the comment that started it all.

There are many, many knowledgeable people on this board and many that have been incredibly successful on this program. To have a standard is a great thing and to try to reach that standard gives us something to achieve. I don't think I have ever seen anyone put another person down because they didn't drink the exact amount of water stated. However, I have seen so much encouragement. This board to me is all about encouragement and support and trying to reach goals. The only thing I see as "unfortunate" is the way these conversations sometimes turn into bickering. Ultimately we all have to do what is right or what we feel is right for our bodies.

Right on That's why I love this place.
anyway, if I believed all the experts, I would fear for my life doing Atkins
I say the best expert is our own body----if we listen!

[Mirya]

Re: Do you really need EIGHT glasses of water?

I think this is the comment that started it all.

There are many, many knowledgeable people on this board and many that have been incredibly successful on this program. To have a standard is a great thing and to try to reach that standard gives us something to achieve. I don't think I have ever seen anyone put another person down because they didn't drink the exact amount of water stated. However, I have seen so much encouragement. This board to me is all about encouragement and support and trying to reach goals. The only thing I see as "unfortunate" is the way these conversations sometimes turn into bickering. Ultimately we all have to do what is right or what we feel is right for our bodies.

DEB do not assume the blame for someone else rudeness and lack of tactfulness. You brouht up a very good a valid point. Ther are apparently just some people that use this board who don't know how to tactfully inteact with otherswhen they dsagree and thisi s not your fault. Personally I was glad you brought this up as I was wondering this myself.

[samira]

Re: Do you really need EIGHT glasses of water?

UrbanShaman:

"Firstly, everyone has a different water intake need. If you have managed to subsist on less water than the required daily amount, then that is wonderful for you."

The point isn't to 'subsist on less water than the required daily amount' and I'm not even debating the required daily amount. The point is that you don't need eight glasses of water BY MOUTH each day because you get about half of that through the food you eat. Which is proven (see links in first post).

I would argue that since we're not eating grains, that we get even MORE water into our diets than before Atkins, but that's not proven.

To Everyone Else:

It is one thing to debate a point using facts and figures. It is another to use anecdotal 'evidence' ("I do fine on..." "I drink this much and..."). I would appreciate it if anyone who has facts to back up the "need for 8 glasses of water each day by mouth" would post.

The intent is not to denigrate anyone's drinking habits. The intent is/was to put forth the FACTS and let people decide for themselves. Unfortunately, what I got was a lot of rhetoric about 'water is good' and 'you need water', which was never debatable.

In summary, I've had wonderful results on Atkins (see my signature) and believe in the plan.

[Debi2007]

Re: Do you really need EIGHT glasses of water?

DEB do not assume the blame for someone else rudeness and lack of tactfulness. You brouht up a very good a valid point. Ther are apparently just some people that use this board who don't know how to tactfully inteact with otherswhen they dsagree and thisi s not your fault. Personally I was glad you brought this up as I was wondering this myself.

Huh? I wasn't taking the blame for anything. Not sure how you got that from what I wrote.

[Debi2007]

Re: Do you really need EIGHT glasses of water?

anyway, if I believed all the experts, I would fear for my life doing Atkins

Ha! Isn't that the truth!! I think there are lots of experts in the world. Many of them are self-proclaimed. I decided this past year that I am an expert and yo-yo dieting. lol... but no more.

[kate58]

Re: Do you really need EIGHT glasses of water?

The research reports and articles to which you originally linked are interesting.

However, none of the have anything to say about whether or not water requirements increase or change in any way, or whether the homesostatic mechanisms are altered, when a person is in a state of ketosis, which is a very different metabolic state than that of the 'average' person. I don't imagine that was controlled for in much if any research you can find, but if you can find some I would be very interested to read it.

[samira]

Re: Do you really need EIGHT glasses of water?

Prya:

Thanks for being the voice of reason. I'd be happy to close this thread now, but don't know how to do it!

[Mirya]

Re: Do you really need EIGHT glasses of water?

Huh? I wasn't taking the blame for anything. Not sure how you got that from what I wrote.

Debi - eh sorry. I messed up. lol I read 2 posts at once and saw your name last somehow got it confused that you were apologizig for something someone else is doing. hehehe sorry about that

In general - Also I thnk I done posting to the board as I am sick of the constant drama. People need to seriously learn to have disagreements like adults.

[Debi2007]

Re: Do you really need EIGHT glasses of water?

Debi - eh sorry. I messed up. lol I read 2 posts at once and saw your name last somehow got it confused that you were apologizig for something someone else is doing. hehehe sorry about that

In general - Also I thnk I done posting to the board as I am sick of the constant drama. People need to seriously learn to have disagreements like adults.

No problem.

[not2late]

Re: Do you really need EIGHT glasses of water?

Not2late:

Thanks for posting that chart. The connection you missed, however, is that when a child is not getting any food by mouth they need to give all those fluids. We healthy people get about half of our hydration needs each day through the foods we eat.

No one is disputing the AMOUNT of water one needs to stay hydrated (again, thanks for posting the chart). It’s whether you need EIGHT GLASSES OF WATER BY MOUTH each day.

Which you don’t. Which is my point.

That amount doesn't necessarily apply to a dehydrated child. The Holliday-Segar formula is for the maintenance fluid levels for your basal metabolic needs. If you want to replace fluid losses from dehydration, you have to take in more water. Likewise, if your metabolic needs increase, you will need more water as well.

And this is what people are saying here. Ketosis/lipolysis has a diuretic effect on the human body. So if we are ketotic, we are in a relatively dehydrated state. Not to mention, we have an increased metabolic need because we are actively using up our fat stores. So we have an increased need of water.

As for getting half of our water from our food, I can see your point because most organic matter is composed primarily of water. But have you any studies that show this to be the case for an Atkins dieter?

By the way, some of the phrases you are choosing to use in your replies can be read as sarcastic and demeaning. Please choose more respectful phrases and terminology so there won't be any misunderstandings.

[SunnySmile501]

Re: Do you really need EIGHT glasses of water?

UrbanShaman:

"Firstly, everyone has a different water intake need. If you have managed to subsist on less water than the required daily amount, then that is wonderful for you."

The point isn't to 'subsist on less water than the required daily amount' and I'm not even debating the required daily amount. The point is that you don't need eight glasses of water BY MOUTH each day because you get about half of that through the food you eat. Which is proven (see links in first post).

I would argue that since we're not eating grains, that we get even MORE water into our diets than before Atkins, but that's not proven.

To Everyone Else:

It is one thing to debate a point using facts and figures. It is another to use anecdotal 'evidence' ("I do fine on..." "I drink this much and..."). I would appreciate it if anyone who has facts to back up the "need for 8 glasses of water each day by mouth" would post.

The intent is not to denigrate anyone's drinking habits. The intent is/was to put forth the FACTS and let people decide for themselves. Unfortunately, what I got was a lot of rhetoric about 'water is good' and 'you need water', which was never debatable.

In summary, I've had wonderful results on Atkins (see my signature) and believe in the plan.

And, just why do you care if most of us drink a lot of water? You can't find any 'proof' that we get half of our water from our foods. Everyone eats different. If I eat 3 cups of salad veggies and another cup of cooked veggies, it's not possible to get 32 ounces of liquid from that. Protein and fat are dense and have very little moisture. No sense in you getting mad because some of us believe different studies and reputable opinions than you. I'm not going to lose any sleep if you don't want to drink water. I'll drink yours!

Sunny!

[Debi2007]

Re: Do you really need EIGHT glasses of water?

It is one thing to debate a point using facts and figures. It is another to use anecdotal 'evidence' ("I do fine on..." "I drink this much and..."). I would appreciate it if anyone who has facts to back up the "need for 8 glasses of water each day by mouth" would post.

Seriously... I was going to be done in here because the conversation is getting a bit tense for me, however I just had to tell you something. A bit off topic, but will make my point.

There are times in life when "anecdotal evidence" is just what we need to be listening to. When I was 1 1/2 months pregnant the doctors told me that my bloodwork showed a non-viable pregnancy and they asked if I wanted to schedule a d*c or just let my body miscarry naturally. They were certain from their "facts." I felt great and insisted on more test which finally showed a very healthy baby - who is now 4 years old. I remember the radiologist telling me that "the textbooks aren't always right" and to "always listen to my body."

The point is... the most important thing is what are bodies are saying to us, not necessarily what the facts say.

[not2late]

Re: Do you really need EIGHT glasses of water?

Just for fun I made up a hypothetical Induction meal and looked up the water grams for each food at the USDA's Nutrient Database Website.

A gram of water is equal to a cubic centimenter (cc) which is equal to a mililiter.
There are 30 ml per 1 fluid ounce

Breakfast
2 large eggs, hard-boiled (75 gm H20)
2 slices cooked bacon, pan-fried (2 gm)
2 ounces Cheddar Cheese (21 gm)
total grams H2O = 98 gm = 98 ml = 3.3 fluid ounces

Lunch
2 cups shredded iceberg lettuce (138 gm H2O)
2 chicken drumsticks, roasted (65 gm H2O)
2 tablespoons ranch dressing ( 12 gm H2O)
2 ounces Cheddar cheese (21 gm H2O)
total gram H2O = 236gm= 236 ml = 7.9 fluid oz

Dinner
6 oz porterhouse steak, grilled (83 gm H2O)
1 cup green beans, boiled (123 gm H2O)
total gram H2O = 206 gm = 206 ml =6.8 fluid oz

Additional foods:
2 tablespoon heavy cream (17 gm H2O= 0.5 fluid oz)

So the total water from foods in this hypothetical Induction menu is 557 grams (557 ml) or 18.5 fluid ounces (roughly 2 1/4 cups)---a little over 1/4 of the 64 ounces/2 liters of water required for our daily basal metabolic needs.