Gallbladder attack...

[Mothercooter]

I have had attacks for a while. It was suggested I get it removed. However, I have heard that getting it removed doesnt garauntee you wont have the attacks anymore. Well, then whats the point of surgery? So I have been putting it off and putting it off.

This is the first attack I had on atkins though I have only been back on atkins for a month now. I am in so much pain right now. Anyone else with these problems or maybe a home remedy that worked for them or any advice at all?

I quit going to the ER with them because all they do is make me fast for 12 hours then brat diet. I can do that here with out the huge ER fee, well minus the BRAT diet.

Im just in so much pain I wanna rip the sucker out but I dont want to undergo a surgery that may not even fix the problem. I hear some ppl have worse probs without it than with a diseased one.

[Adena]

Re: Gallbladder attack...

Mindy, I had a Pancreatitis attack, which was caused by a gallstone aggravating my pancreas (but that was my first attack). They removed it (the gallbladder), and I haven't had any problems since. And I haven't missed it...

Sorry -- no home remedies to offer, but I hope you feel better soon! Take care.

[Mothercooter]

Re: Gallbladder attack...

They told me that when/if I have it removed that I will have to be on a low fat diet for the rest rest of my life. Obviously if there are ppl here without a gallbladder and on atkins that isnt nessesarily true. Just wondering how this is going to affect my new WOL but also I just cant deal with the pain of the attacks anymore however rare they have become. I had them pretty frequent before starting atkins they had gotten to once every few days right before I started, then I went all month without one since starting and now...ugh! Oh well I will wait it out tonight.

I had the pancreas attack as well last time I was hospitalized for it. Thats when they wanted to remove it but I was pregnant so they waited. Maybe I just need to go for it.

[FatBottomGirl]

Re: Gallbladder attack...

I had a couple the last time I did was on Atkins - but haven't this time (knock wood)... I'm not sure what kind of remedies there are out there, hopefully someone will have an answer soon - but I am sorry you are in so much pain. Is it possible you are have an excess of acid//if I remember rightly from when I was having the attacks that was another part of my problem -- Similar to acid reflux - maybe something over the counter like Zantac might help???

[kate58]

Re: Gallbladder attack...

The dogma of low-fat for gallbladder is as bankrupt as the dogma that low-fat high carb is the answer to all your blood glucose problems.

I was very concerned about this when I started Atkins, as I have gallstones which were discovered as an incidental finding when I had a scan from something entirely unrelated, though they are not causing symptoms. What I found, to my surprise is that low fat diets cause, and most definitely do not prevent, gallstones. This is why (with apologies for the length, but it's complicated!):

About Bile

Bile is produced by the liver and stored in the gall bladder. It's job is to emulsify dietary fat, making it digestible. When a fatty meal is eaten, the fat is detected in the gut and the gall bladder contracts, squishing out some of the bile it has at the ready for just this event.

The active ingredients in bile are bile acids, which are formed from cholesterol.

Low-Fat Diets & Gallstone formation

On a low fat diet, relatively little fat arrives in the intestine, so the gall bladder empties less often and less completely, it just oozes out a little bile now and then, but most of the bile sits there stagnating, waiting to be useful. However as it sits, while the liver slows bile production in response, it does not stop production completely. Some bile acids are still added to the gall bladder, which changes the composition of bile, making it much more concentrated.

So, now you have a bile with a far higher solids content, primarily in the form of bile acids, derived from cholesterol. While these remain dissolved in bile, all is ok. But with a low fat diet there is eventually too much for them to remain dissolved, so they come out of solution, clump together and form stones. The vast majority of gall stones are composed primarily of cholesterol.

Effects of a High-Fat Diet

In contrast, when a high fat diet is eaten, the gall bladder is emptied regularly, there is a constant flow through of bile which is freshly created and dilute and so there is little or no opportunity for stones to occur.

Thus the idea that because gall stones are composed of cholesterol, a low fat diet will prevent them is clearly not so. In spite of that the idea that high fat causes gallstones has stuck and is widely accepted both by the public and the medical profession - and of course fits in with the general concensus on dietary low-fat advice. It is not a coincidence though that other problems of high carb diets - such as obesity - are associated with gallstones.

Changing from Low-Fat to High-Fat

First, think about what happens when a person on a low-fat diet suddenly pigs out on a high fat meal, say a fried steak with a nice creamy sauce.

The gall bladder finally has work to do, and happily squeezes out its bile. But, now there are stones in there. If they are big, they may block the exit from the gall bladder, reducing the secretion of bile. This causes some pain, and the reduced amount of bile makes the fat less digestible. The person has a bit of pain and some indigestion. But worse, if they are small stones, they may exit into the bile duct and there become stuck, entirely blocking the exit of bile, which causes severe pain.

Now in the mind of the person on the low fat diet, everything they believe is confirmed - fatty food causes gall stones. Though in fact the opposite is true, it was lack of fat that created the problem.

Atkins & Gallstones: Critisisms

This is why one of the often repeated critisisms of Atkins is that it 'causes' gallstones. But gallstones don't develop overnight or even in a coule of weeks, they take months or years to form. Hawever if someone already has gallstones, even if they are unaware of it as is commonly the case, suddenly switches from a low-fat to a high-fat diet, the symptoms can come on fairly soon afterwards, creating a false impression that the higher fat content caused the problem.

Approaches to Treating Gallstones

None of that is much comfort to those with gall stones already, since they have little tendancy to naturally dissolve again once formed, or if they do so will do so only slowly. The pain in the meantime can be significant and too much to bear, creating the need for intervention.

In theory, removing the stones in such a patient would be enough to resolve the problem, since the conditions that caused the stones originally are now removed. This used to be the standard treatment, and using various drugs or other methods to dissolve the stones was also popular. But these patients were invariably advised to eat a low-fat diet subsequently and permanently, which as is clear actually causes rather than prevents stone formation.

Not surprisingly most studies following these methods showed that the recurrence rate was very high. So, in the belief that it was an ineffective method of treatment, these approaches are now largely abandoned and nowadays the problem is most often approached instead by removing the entire gall bladder.

What happens when the Gall Bladder is Gone?

When the gall bladder is gone, bile can no longer be stored, but it IS still produced.

Now it just flows directly from the liver into the gut, via the hepatic duct, without any storage and whether it is needed or not. If there is no fat or insufficient fat for it to work on, you can get symptoms like flatulence, diarrhea and other digestive upsets as a result. These are common complaints of those who have had their gall bladders removed and follow the standard prescribed low-fat diet.

However If there is plenty of fat to use up this bile, these should not be an issue. Which explains why people here who have had their gall bladders removed, and are defying the standard medical advise of eating low-fat, generally report that they don't miss it a bit. And they would almost certainly report the same excellent outcomes if only the stones and not the entire bladder had been removed.



So far my stones have not been a problem on my newly high fat diet. I'm hoping that will last, but if they do become an issue I will INSIST on just getting rid of the stones, not the gall bladder, as I am confident that eating this way will keep a recurrance away.

[OzLover]

Re: Gallbladder attack...

I've had my gallbladder taken out & have NEVER had an issue. Get it taken out. Why continue to experience so much pain??

[brandywine1241]

Re: Gallbladder attack...

I had a couple of attacks after starting Atkins for the first time. After reading up on it I reached the same conclusion as Kate58 - the gall stones were already present and the increasedbile production just caused them to move. I did read that soy lecithin could help so I have been taking that ever since and haven't had any more problems. Since you have had many attacks, if I were you I would get a scan and see how many stones you have and if it's many, have the stones removed, stay on this diet, and take lecithin.

[Hoping]

Re: Gallbladder attack...

My mom had her gallbladder removed and she does Atkins. She says she's never felt better.

[SandyL2002]

Re: Gallbladder attack...

I also had my gall bladder out before I did Atkins...and when I do Atkins I have no problems... At first I went to the bathroom alot...but when I don't eat Breads and Sugars I do great...

I was so sick before I got it...and now much much better...

Now I will say at first.. I use to jokingly say I am hurting in my None Gall Bladder.. but I really feel like it was gas in my chest.. Don't have that problem any more

[mystic]

Re: Gallbladder attack...

Okay sorry but you're getting a pile of crap from your medical advisor there. I suffered with gall stones from the ages of 14 to 34 because I was misdiagnosed that entire time. I never fit the profile for gall stones so they never bothered to check for them. I finally had it removed after my chiropractor diagnosed my problem.

Believe it or not, I survived that long by sucking on sour candy to alleviate the attacks which by the way, were always brought on by the consumption of fats. The mayo at Subway was the worst offender. Fatty meats were not much better. Eggs? No way.

The gall bladder's job is to produce and secrete bile. Bile is used to digest fats. When you consume fats, the gall bladder compresses to squeeze the bile into your digestive track. If you have stones, the compressing of the gall bladder HURTS! The liver ALSO produces bile and aids in the fat digestion process.

My situation was so bad that stones had been pushed out of the gall bladder and into my bile duct. Those stones then blocked my bile duct. One stone even broke through the duct and bile was leaking out of it. The surgeon took a picture of it because he had never in his life seen such a thing.

After surgery, your system goes through a phase where it adjusts. Your liver will pick up the slack and eventually produce appropriate amounts of bile to digest the fats. I don't know who told you you'll still get attacks even though your GB is gone. Ah... no gall bladder, no gall bladder attack is possible duh. Again, the pain is caused by the gall bladder compressing when stones are present. You can't have attacks without one. I never have.

Before my surgery I was only able to eat turkey and white bread. After my surgery, I was able to eat anything and everything and that's EXACTLY what lead to my weight problem. For the first time since I was 14, I could eat anything. I never learned to eat properly because I couldn't eat anything anyway.

Now I'm learning to eat correctly. I haven't had any kind of attacks or pancreatitis since the surgery so if I were you, I'd get it done. You can suck on the sour candy to alleviate the attacks, but that's just not wise in my opinion. If you let the problem continue, you will likely develop the same issue I did where the stones migrate into your bile duct and block it. Then you'll go to the emergency room anyway and they'll remove it.

Low fat diet for the rest of your life <rolls eyes>

[Laurenfra]

Re: Gallbladder attack...

I have heard it can be dangerous to let it go. I know the last attack I had was so bad I wnted to die. I have not had a problem since I had it out