How much is too much meat?

[courtney_00]

I ate 4 thighs ( i think) of chicken today, is that to much?

[Georgiana]

Re: How much is too much meat?

Well, it obviously depends on what else you have eaten yesterday. On page 123, the book does indeed say we can liberal amounts of protein and fat. However, Dr. Atkins also writes that excess protein will be converted to glucose. During Induction, you should aim for approximately 65% fat, 5% carbohydrate and 30% protein.

Also, while calories do not necessarily have to be counted, they still matter. Because of the "metabolic advantage" offered by lipolysis, you can eat a few hundred calories more than you could if you were in glucosis. Anything above what you burn will negatively affect your weigh loss results.

[SunnySmile501]

Re: How much is too much meat?

Check out this website. It calculates protein needs according to age, gender and height against how active you are. It will help you find out how many grams of protein you need each day.


http://www.healthcalculators.org/calculators/protein.asp

[Georgiana]

Re: How much is too much meat?

Check out this website. It calculates protein needs according to age, gender and height against how active you are. It will help you find out how many grams of protein you need each day.

http://www.healthcalculators.org/calculators/protein.asp

I would advise against using this calculator as it is impossible to simultaneously stick to the amount of protein it recommends and to the guidelines of Induction. An example. I enter my stats in and it says 87 g of protein. Now if protein were to represent 30% of my total caloric intake, this would mean I would have to consume about 1160 calories per day. That obviously cannot be right -- I would be starving. While the calculator might be okay for people following other diets, it certainly does not work for someone on Atkins.

Courtney, if you don't have the book, here are the rules of Induction

http://www.atkinsdietbulletinboard.com/forums/atkins-low-carb-dieting-faqs/6782-what-rules-induction.html

and you can track your meals in FitDay (or other similar online tool):

http://www.atkinsdietbulletinboard.com/forums/atkins-diet-14-day-induction/5775-fitday.html

[msanjelpie]

Re: How much is too much meat?

Sometimes I eat 6 boiled chicken thighs (no skin) dipped in mayonnaise... yum yum... The rule is to eat until you are full... Some meats are less filling than others...

[kibskix]

Re: How much is too much meat?

my rule is get your veggies in first. then add anything else if you still want something else to eat. I make sure to get some veggies into every single meal.

[HardRuler]

Re: How much is too much meat?

From HowStuffWorks "How Food Works":

The RDA (Recommended Daily Allowance) for protein is 0.36 grams of protein per pound of body weight. So a 150-pound person needs 54 grams of protein per day. The photo above is the Nutritional Facts label from a can of tuna. You can see that a can of tuna contains about 32 grams of protein (this can has 13 grams per serving and there are 2.5 servings in the can). A glass of milk contains about 8 grams of protein. A slice of bread might contain 2 or 3 grams of protein. You can see that it is not that hard to meet the RDA for protein with a normal diet.

From Protein Conversion to Glucose: An Evaluation of the Quantitative Aspects -- Wolman et al. 4 (5): 487 -- Journal of Parenteral and Enteral Nutrition:

The amount of glucose that can be synthesized from a protein depends on its amino acid (AA) composition. This value is about 60 g from 100 g of liver or muscle protein and is based on a knowledge of the total AA content and the proportion of each AA that can be converted to pyruvate. The maximum quantity of glucose in grams that can be synthesized from administered AA solutions is the sum of the products of the number of moles of each AA times its percent convertible to pyruvate times the molecular weight of that AA.

From Side Effects of Too Much Protein in the Diet - LoveToKnow Diet:

So what happens when your diet goes far beyond the recommended level of protein, as you might do if following a high protein diet? One of the main concerns has to do with the stress put on the kidneys.


It is important for people on high high protein [COLOR=#0000CC ! important][COLOR=#0000CC ! important][COLOR=#0000CC ! important][/color][/color][/color] to exercise because it can help the kidneys do their job of flushing wastes out of your system more effectively. Make sure you talk to your doctor before beginning a high protein diet if you have ever experienced kidney problems.


Another issue regarding getting too much protein is leeching of calcium from the bones. The acids released by the body as it digests protein are absorbed with the help of calcium. So if you aren't getting enough calcium, your body will take calcium from your bones.


The Nurses Healthy Study even showed that women who ate more than 95 grams of protein were more likely to have broken their wrist than were women who ate less protein.


There is also some evidence that eating a lot of protein can induce or aggravate allergies.


While it's a popular belief that eating too much protein causes cardiovascular disease, new research shows that a high protein diet that emphasizes vegetable sources of protein is protective to the heart. It is, though, important that you watch fat intake, because many cuts of meat are very fatty.Most meat today is loaded with antibiotics and hormones.



Research has also shown the side effects of too much protein in the diet [COLOR=#0000CC ! important][COLOR=#0000CC ! important][/color][/color] include an increased risk of diabetes or cancer.

There really is not set amount in grams but excessive protein is dangerous. A good rule of thumb is no more than .5 grams per pound of body weight if you are not strength training.

Consuming too much protein and not enough carbohydrates results in poor athletic performance and impaired ability to have an effective workout due to depletion of glycogen stores, which the body burns for energy during exercise; carbohydrates are the body’s main source of glycogen. This is counter-productive, since most people either eat excessive protein under the assumption of either losing weight or building muscle mass and size; however these goals cannot be achieved without a proper exercise program.

Source: Blackburn et al. (2001), Cleveland Clinic Journal of Medicine

[HardRuler]

Re: How much is too much meat?

Excellent article on protein.
Health 101 - Article - Protein Propaganda

[not2late]

Re: How much is too much meat?

Here's an interesting article from the folks at Weston A. Price Myths and Truths About Osteoporosis (Do high protein diets cause bone loss?)

But as Georgiana wrote, it all depends......On Atkins, you NEVER gorge yourself on foods. In other words, you don't overeat. So if it takes 1 egg to satisfy your hunger, that's all you eat. If it takes 3 eggs, that's all you eat. Alot of people think all you eat on Atkins is meat, cheese, eggs, and more meat, cheese and eggs, and maybe a leaf of lettuce if you feel like it.

Besides, you are eating veggies at each meal. So they help to fill you up during your meals.

I know that many of us overeat. So we don't really know when we are satisfied and when we are "full" (read: stuffed). I used to say if you stand up immediately after you've eaten and can feel the weight of the food you have just eaten sitting in your stomach, then you've overeaten.

The best thing to do is eat slowly. And eat your portion, like one chicken thigh. Then ask yourself "Am I still hungry?" If your stomach is still growling, then eat another thigh. Then ask yourself again "Am I still hungry?". If you feel no hunger, then stop eating.

It takes time to relearn our inborn hunger cues. So take the time to learn them.

[SunnySmile501]

Re: How much is too much meat?

Excellent article on protein.
Health 101 - Article - Protein Propaganda

You have picked a strange diet for someone that believes that protein is only needed in small amounts and mostly from vegetable sources. This article is appropriately titled, because it is propaganda against protein that can not be backed up with medical studies.

How is the 14-day Atkins Induction diet going for you?

[HardRuler]

Re: How much is too much meat?

I am not advocating any position other than saying too much protein is unhealthy. I have seen both points of view and we do know that people who get the majority of their protein from non animal sources live longer and are healthier.

Personally I get 70% of my calories from plant bases carbs therefore I have to eat a lot because fruits and vegetables are generally low is calories. I do this because the human digestive system is designed primarily for a plant based diet. When I was a body builder I was taking in 200+ grams of protein and of course tons of carbs you can't build muscle without them. I finally switched to amino acids (BCAAs) because it was tough to digest. WHen you are building muscle and you have fiber with your protein meals you tend to absorb less protein.

Also when you eat excessive amounts of protein you get keto breath. During the cutting phase you cut out carbs entirely. That is ****. I no longer body build. It really is anti health. I feel much better at 150 with slightly more body fat than when is was 170 and cut. I am also nearly as strong as I was then.

There are people who will tell you that any meat is too much meat. My cousin is a vegan. His reason not to eat animal flesh is based both on health concerns and his personal morality. I see his point but I still eat some meat. I don't eat beef do to the toxins but I will eat venison and bison. I probably get around 100 grams per day. I found that rule about portions being no bigger than a deack of cards works well for me and others. I get around 20 -25 grams per meal. I have 4 to 6 meals per day usually but there ae some days I only eat twice. That is when we go out to dinner. I can get most of my daily calories in a typical restaruant meal.

[SunnySmile501]

Re: How much is too much meat?

I guess that I am still wondering why you would claim to be doing Atkins 14-day induction, when you obviously feel that the Atkins Diet is harmful to health and dangerous? Isn't that how you feel, Rev. Brady?

[Georgiana]

Re: How much is too much meat?

HardRuler, your post has nothing to do with Atkins. As you might know from your experience as a weight loss counselor, Atkins is a high-fat "diet", not a high-protein one. During all phases of Atkins, protein accounts for approximately 30% of the total caloric intake, while fat accounts for 50-65%.

I am not sure when you have composed your post, but the link to the Nurses' Health Study you provided points to a webpage that talks, among other things, about eliminating unhealthy carbohydrates and increasing protein intake. Here is one paragraph:

Cutting back on highly processed carbohydrates and increasing protein improves levels of blood triglycerides and HDL, and so may reduce your chances of having a heart attack, stroke, or other form of cardiovascular disease. It may also make you feel full longer, and stave off hunger pangs.

I assume this is not what you intended to show us, is it? Because it somehow contradicts the main idea of your post.

The results relating wrist fractures to protein consumption are inconsistent. As a weight loss counselor, you probably have access to the full paper, so I am just going to point you to the abstract of this study: CJO - Abstract - Effects of meat consumption and vegetarian diet on risk of wrist fracture over 25 years in a cohort of peri- and postmenopausal women

It is, though, important that you watch fat intake, because many cuts of meat are very fatty.

Since we are on an Atkins board, I am not sure I understand the "watch your fat intake" part. Again, Atkins is a high-fat diet. To understand why this works and why it is healthy, I would recommend you to read DANDR 2002.

Consuming too much protein and not enough carbohydrates results in poor athletic performance and impaired ability to have an effective workout due to depletion of glycogen stores, which the body burns for energy during exercise; carbohydrates are the body’s main source of glycogen.

I know at least 4 members on this board who ran marathons or half-marathons while following Atkins, and even more who lift weights on a regular basis. There are 3 systems that are able to provide ATP: the phosphagen system (this is involved in activities like sprinting), the glycogen-lactic acid system (for activities such as running on medium distances) and aerobic respiration (for activities like running long distances, e.g. half-marathons/marathons). The first system can rapidly provide energy to the muscles for about 10 sec. The energy it provides comes from ATP molecules stored in our muscle cells. However, if you want to perform longer then ~10 sec, these ATP molecules need to be replenished relatively fast. Here is where the glycogen-lactic system comes into play. This system, which can provide energy for about 1.5 minutes, involves the conversion of glycerol stored in the muscles to glucose and then to energy. When there is little glycerol stored in the muscles, the body turns to fats. A fat molecule is composed of fatty acids and a glycerol backbone. When a fat molecule is broken down, this glycerol backbone has the same role as the glycerol you would store in your muscles by eating a large amount of carbohydrate -- dihydroxyacetone phosphate and glyceraldehyde-3-phosphate convert it to glucose in the liver, through a process known as gluconeogenesis. The third system, aerobic respiration, is involved in endurance activities. As usual, you have three possible sources of energy: carbohydrate, fat and protein. If you don't feed it carbohydrates, your body turns again to fat (fatty acids + glycerol). The fatty acids undergo a process known as β-oxidation, which produces CoA's that are used in the Krebs cycle. The same CoA's are produced when your diet consists mainly of carbohydrates, although following a different metabolic pathway.

So if all these three systems available for producing energy, a person on a low-carbohydrate/high-fat diet can do exactly the same type of exercise as a person on a high-carbohydrate/low-fat diet. Those who complain about decreased performance on low-carbohydrate/high-fat diets are those who do the mistake of not refueling themselves with enough fat at the right time, because it does indeed take more steps/time to get ATP from fat molecules then from carbohydrate molecules.

WHen you are building muscle and you have fiber with your protein meals you tend to absorb less protein.

This is a conclusion drawn by body-builders who read nutrition articles without understanding the limitations of the experiments. Since they are the majority, myths are born. Unless one is able to measure the Fk N component on diets that differ only in the protein intake (this was not done in any study I know of, but I would appreciate if you could point me to one), the results cannot be generalized and could very well be incorrect.

When I was a body builder I was taking in 200+ grams of protein and of course tons of carbs you can't build muscle without them.

As I have explained above, this is not true. You can build muscles when following a low-carbohydrate diet, even though the energy mechanisms involved are different then when eating "tons of carbs". The reason why body-builders overload on carbs before competitions is to fill their muscles with glycerol, thus making them more prominent.

I am not advocating any position other than saying too much protein is unhealthy.

Yes, this is pretty much what Dr. Atkins wrote. Too much protein will be converted to glucose, which is why Atkins is a high-fat, low-carb, moderate-protein way of eating.

Something else you do not seem to be aware of. Atkins is not only Induction. The "diet" has four phases: Induction, Ongoing Weight Loss, Pre-Maintenance and Maintenance. The Induction phase (two weeks) is the most restrictive, where carbohydrates are limited to 20 g per day. In the other phases, you get to eat nuts, more diary, fruits, legumes, starchy vegetables, grains. I assume the wrong impression you have was given to you by your patients -- most of those who fail on Atkins never move out of Induction or never correctly progress through the OWL Rungs, to Pre-Maintenance and Maintenance.

[susan423]

Re: How much is too much meat?

Check out this website. It calculates protein needs according to age, gender and height against how active you are. It will help you find out how many grams of protein you need each day.


http://www.healthcalculators.org/cal...rs/protein.asp

It calculated 58 grams for me. I usually eat almost twice that much

[Georgiana]

Re: How much is too much meat?

It calculated 58 grams for me. I usually eat almost twice that much

Yes, that's about as much as I eat. For the last two weeks, Fitday gives me an average of 98.8 g of protein.