I need a reference in the atkins book on fat

[Lia]

hi.. all.. the body builder who owns gold's gym where I work out..says fat turns to sugar as well as protein and carbs.. I tried to tell him otherwise. He says... "YOU will burn up your muscle when you don't take in carbs.. I tried to tell him that we do eat net carbs in induction and increase gradually to a point we can eat healthy carbs and not gain weight back. I saw where it says fat and glycerol.. sorry.. if I am being dumb here.. so.. I need to validate myself to this guy.. he is very nice.. but doesn't get it...where does it say in the book about fat is the only one that does not turn to sugar in the body... thanks.. Lia

[SunnySmile501]

Re: I need a reference in the atkins book on fat

He is a tiny bit right (about fat to sugar (glucose)). We can turn fat into glucose in the absence of carbs and protein. The body has to produce glucose to function, so if it can't get it anywhere else, it will use fat. It happens mostly in cases of starvation. This happens in the process of gluconeogenesis.

However, fat does not need insulin to be transported into cells as do carbs and protein, so no insulin spike/crash from the fat.

Dr. Atkins said, "Fat is much more ketosis-inducing than protein. After all, 58% of protein will become glucogenic amino acids, i.e., convertible to glucose, but only 10% of fat will become its glycerol portion, which is similarly convertible."

He got this information from Dr. John Yudkin, whom he references frequently in his books.

Fat is the most valuable food known to Man

PROFESSOR JOHN YUDKIN

Dietary proteins are converted to glucose at about fifty-eight percent efficiency, so approximately 100g of protein can produce 58g of glucose via gluconeogenesis.[v] During prolonged fasting, glycerol released from the breakdown of triglycerides in body fat may account for nearly twenty percent of gluconeogenesis.[vi] Body fats are stored as triglycerides, molecules that contain three fatty acids combined with glycerol. The fatty acids are used directly as a fuel, with the glycerol stripped off. This is not wasted. As the glycerol is nearly ten percent of triglyceride by weight and two molecules of glycerol combine to form one molecule of glucose, this also supplies a source of glucose.

http://www.second-opinions.co.uk/fat-not-protein.html

Gluconeogenesis:
Gluconeogenesis is the process of synthesizing glucose from non-carbohydrate sources. The starting point of gluconeogenesis is pyruvic acid, although oxaloacetic acid and dihydroxyacetone phosphate also provide entry points. Lactic acid, some amino acids from protein and glycerol from fat can be converted into glucose.

Glycogenesis

[chinadoll]

Re: I need a reference in the atkins book on fat

Most body builders believe that right after an intense workout some easily processed carbs are needed within one hour because the body, rather then storing them as fat, uses them to replace the glycogen stores so you don't end up burning up muscle tissue. They are not incorrect in this but you can get the carbs you need without downing sugar. (The preferred food for many muscle guys is dextrose and whey). This is where I tend to eat my plain yogurt once I reach dairy, and my fruit and yogurt once I reach the berry rung. It is a post workout snack that is legal and I sure want to prevent muscle wasting. Whether it is true or not I don't know but I like a quick post workout snack anyway so why not go along with it just in case.

I would say you are probably not going to convince this guy so let him think he has given you something to think about and thanks for the info. Then ignore him. I mean he isnt eating with you so how would he know what you do anyway.

[not2late]

Re: I need a reference in the atkins book on fat

Here's my thoughts........

1. I don't exercise with the goal of becoming a body builder. I want only to strengthen my muscles and improve my general health. Losing muscle if you don't eat any carbs might happen to someone who already has a normal or low-normal % body fat. I can't speak for anyone else here, but when I was 240 + pounds----I had alot of body fat to spare.

2. If I had a dollar for everytime someone told me that if you don't eat carbs you'll die/have a heart attack/lose muscle, etc. I would be able to personally bail out Ford, Chrysler and GM in addition to paying off everyone's mortage and the US national debt!

3. I tend not to discuss Atkins with most people, because most people don't understand the way Atkins works. So I typically just nod my head and smile knowingly whenever they go on about not eating vegetables on Atkins or not eating "enough" carbs on Atkins, etc.

[SunnySmile501]

Re: I need a reference in the atkins book on fat

The last DANDR to talk about fat being used to make glucose was in the 1999 edition.

Here's another reference as to how little fat can be synthesized to glucose.

Gluconeogenesis

In animals, glucose is required by the brain, and is important to the proper
functioning of most tissues. A fall in plasma glucose can result in unconsciousness, and, if untreated, can be fatal. If dietary glucose is insufficient to maintain normal circulating levels of glucose, additional glucose must be released from the liver. The liver has some glucose stored in the form of glycogen but these stores only last for about 12 hours in the absence of dietary glucose. Considerably before the glucose stores have been consumed, the organism must begin synthesizing additional glucose from other molecules in a process called
gluconeogenesis (literally “the birth of new glucose”). The vast majority of

gluconeogenesis occurs in the liver, with some additional glucose synthesis occurring in the kidney.

Glucose can be synthesized from pyruvate, from nearly all of the standard amino acids, or from TCA cycle intermediates. Animals cannot convert acetyl-CoA to any of these compounds. Because the breakdown of fat results nearly exclusively in acetyl-CoA, fat (with minor exceptions) cannot be used to synthesize glucose. Instead, most glucose is synthesized either from lactate (produced during anaerobic glycolysis) or from amino acids (derived from breakdown of proteins). Some glucose is synthesized from glycerol (a breakdown product of triacylglycerol and phospholipids), and some can be synthesized from fatty acids containing an odd number of carbons. Cows and other ruminants use a breakdown product of chlorophyll as a gluconeogenic substrate (in humans, this pathway is present but is far less important). In general, however, gluconeogenesis uses amino acids either derived from dietary protein or from breakdown of proteins stores as the source of the substrate required for the process.

http://www.rose-hulman.edu/~brandt/C...neogenesis.pdf

[pokiedot]

Re: I need a reference in the atkins book on fat

Here's my thoughts........

1. I don't exercise with the goal of becoming a body builder. I want only to strengthen my muscles and improve my general health. Losing muscle if you don't eat any carbs might happen to someone who already has a normal or low-normal % body fat. I can't speak for anyone else here, but when I was 240 + pounds----I had alot of body fat to spare.

2. If I had a dollar for everytime someone told me that if you don't eat carbs you'll die/have a heart attack/lose muscle, etc. I would be able to personally bail out Ford, Chrysler and GM in addition to paying off everyone's mortage and the US national debt!

3. I tend not to discuss Atkins with most people, because most people don't understand the way Atkins works. So I typically just nod my head and smile knowingly whenever they go on about not eating vegetables on Atkins or not eating "enough" carbs on Atkins, etc.

Yeah!

I find it easier to just avoid the topic, or if necessary, lie and tell people what they want to hear.

I just had a conversation with my mother-in-law last night - she hasn't seen me in a few weeks and can see my weight loss... wanted to know what I was doing and basically I just lied and said Weight Watchers because she is a NOSYBODY and likes to give everyone her opinion, and I know she thinks WW is the be-all-end-all of diets and so basically it made the conversation more pleasant for both of us LOL and I can go about eating the Atkins way in peace. All I ever eat at her house is salads so I'm good either way

[keriann_forgoodthistime]

Re: I need a reference in the atkins book on fat

When I first started atkins - back in january - i was talking with a trainer at my gym - and when i told him i was on atkins, you'da thought I had threatened to kill his dog or something - seriously he gave me SUCH a disdainful look like I was evil and he didn't want to be in my presence! lol
I told him straight up - "i am insulin resistant and my DOCTOR put me on atkins."
he shut up and i never spoke with him again.

The thing is - there are SO many reasons to do this and TONS of educated people out there who've written GOBS of books on why high fat / low carb / low-to-no sugar IS the way to go.

That's something I've been trying to do is re-educate myself and gain as much information as possible to back up my arguments when I talk to people about WHY the way I eat now is MUCH healthier than how "they" tell you to eat and why CARBS (even "whole grains") turn straight into sugar in your body and that your body doesn't know the difference between table sugar and whole grains.

Check out Jimmy Moore's website and you'll find TONS of links to other blogs and books to read up on why this woe really IS healthy.

I want to say THANK YOU to Sunny for all that info on Gluconeogenesis. I've heard a lot about that but sometimes my brain doesn't retain information and it's always great to have that at my fingertips!