a day off

[vector2]

Re: a day off

Not if Atkins is done correctly.

Losing some LBM is unavoidable even on Atkins due to low circulating levels of insulin (insulin not only signals the body to store fat, but also amino acids). Luckily, the LBM/fat loss ratio isn't nearly as drastic as low-fat, low-cal diets which absolutely ravage muscle tissue.

[amy8yma]

Re: a day off

Well thanks for all the replies. I knew i was going to get told off a bit but all true and well deserved. I am on day 5 of induction again and no problems so far so all is good!!! Feeling slimmer and lovely. Thanks for the words of encouragement. I'll update on my progress shortly.
xxx

[neutronnorman]

Re: a day off

Norman - you're right on to follow your modified diet (which isn't Atkins) given your enormous energy needs and output given your workout. You're also lucky that the carb-ups you do don't cause the problems that so many of us here have dealt with in the past (cravings, slips, slides, falls and crashes). Many of us are here not because of the thousands of crappy meals we ate, but because of the first crappy one we had after losing some weight previously.

Your posts are 100% scientifically and metabolically spot on given that your mileage varies considerably from the others on here. Atkins really is not appropriate for you given your activity level, your desire to retain/grow LBM and your workout routine. Makes total sense to me.

(So that I'm clear, I'm only going in depth a little bit so that folks who might not be as schooled in this as you don't think for a moment that carbing up on Atkins is Ok or appropriate, because it's not. You've been very clear that your approach is tailored to suit your needs/demands, but I wanted to drive it home a little further for folks who aren't following your plan/gym routine.)

Hello Slapshot:

I will join. As you probably guessed both Vector2 and me are scientists working in our respective fields of interest. We both work in academic settings. Both of us have backgrounds in biochemistry. Vector2 has much more than me. His field is more practical than mine, and I'm more theoretical. I delve more into quantum mechanics and atomic /molecular bonding and orbital theory. We both are well versed in hormone manipulation.

I know I do not fit the typical profile of ADBB member. I came on board here for tips, especially fishing for computational software that subscribers might have posted. When I started induction, 10 days ago, I weighed 245 lb and had a body fat count of 32.4%. Today I'm weighing 229 lb. but my body fat has dropped to about 25%. That's pretty close to an average American male. The difference" I've gained close to 5 lb. muscle.

The reason I haven't joined a Bodybuilding forum at a different site is because those subscribers tend to push outrageous workout schemes and promote the use of androgens and growth hormone. Some of those guys advocate using throxin, insulin and what have not to increase anabolism. I'm not a "saint" by all means. I'm presently adminstring myself anti-aromate (estrogen blocker) compounds and am cycling them for 8 weeks. I'm prudent enough to dose myself with calcium and vitamin D.

Don't get me wrong, Atkins is a great way to lose weight. Period. But the diet is not anabolic enough for a bodybuilder. I'm at 229 lb. My goal is 195 lb. with an 11-15% bodyfat. From there I'll experiment with caloric intake, possibly tripling them, then once again, cutting back. My ultimate goal is the see if I can once again go under 10%. I have a closet full of Levi;s 501 that have 32" waists and are 32" long. I'm close to 6 feet tall. The OWL is not for me.

Norman

[not2late]

Re: a day off

Losing some LBM is unavoidable even on Atkins due to low circulating levels of insulin (insulin not only signals the body to store fat, but also amino acids). Luckily, the LBM/fat loss ratio isn't nearly as drastic as low-fat, low-cal diets which absolutely ravage muscle tissue.

Not exactly. Atkins is satisfies the definition of a "protein sparing diet", unlike the traditional low cal/ low fat diets. Protein sparing diets require a minimum of 0.5 to 0.7 grams protein per kilogram body weight in order for them to be protein sparing. This is consistent with Chittenden's protein requirement experiment, in which he showed that amounts lower than the Voit standard did not adversely effect the human body---primarily the loss of lean body mass.

Therefore, if you weigh 60 kg, to ensure you do not lose lean body mass on Atkins or any other diet, you need to eat at least 30-42 grams of protein per day. That amount is equivalent to the protein found in 100 grams of roasted chicken breast (29.80 grams) plus 1 or 2 large egg (3.60 grams/egg). And people typically eat more than enough protein during their Atkins to avoid losing lean body mass. (Protein amounts are from the USDA Nutrient Database.)

As for insulin being low on Atkins, Atkins doesn’t lower insulin levels, Atkins stabilizes it within a normal range. Of course this is relative because if you are in a perpetually hyperinsulinemic state, then if your insulin levels were to normalize they would "lower". For a person in an eu-insulinemic state, the insulin levels would remain steady and not "lower" to the normal range.


Serum insulin is measured as "fasting insulin" because "normal" serum insulin levels in the body are time-dependent. The range of normal fasting serum insulin is 5-40 micro-USP units/ml. Insulin secretion peaks 60 minutes after a meal. The normal range for 60 minute post-prandial serum insulin is 22-124 micro-USP units/ml. Atkins keeps you within these normal ranges. That’s why we have a number of Type 2 Diabetic members who have stabilized their blood sugars to the point where they need less or no medications to manage their diabetes.

The idea that low levels of insulin are associated with low lean body mass is probably extrapolated from Type 1 Diabetics. It’s a faulty association, because the causality is not as simple as low or no insulin = low lean body mass. The definition of Type 1 Diabetes is the inability of the pancreas to produce insulin. Type 1 Diabetics are generally skinny people with low lean body mass because they are essentially in a perpetual starvation state. Since they cannot use glucose, they cannibalize their body fat and muscle, thus decreasing their lean muscle and fat stores. When they are given insulin, they are able to use glucose and regain a healthy weight. Historically speaking, before the discovery and use of insulin, Type 1 Diabetes was treated with a ketogenic diet. When placed on the ketogenic diet, their blood sugars normalized and they were able to gain weight---fat and lean body mass.


Again, if Atkins is done properly, you shouldn't lose lean body mass because it is a protein sparing diet and because insulin levels are normalized.

By the way, I made a mistake in my previous post about Atkins being a 3:1 ketogenic diet. It’s more of a 1:1 ketogenic diet.