Carbs, calories and stalls. . . .

[ldyj]

Further to my question about who counts calories, could it be a stall is just as likely to be caused by going over your calorie limit as it is going over your carb tolerance?? Inquiring minds want to know!!

[Georgiana]

Re: Carbs, calories and stalls. . . .

Further to my question about who counts calories, could it be a stall is just as likely to be caused by going over your calorie limit as it is going over your carb tolerance?? Inquiring minds want to know!!

If you are eating enough to satisfy your hunger and learn to listen to what your body tells you, then this should not happen and going above your CCLL should be the reason (among the two, because there could be others) why you are losing weight anymore. Which is why I believe is important to learn how to recognize hunger signals instead of striving for xyzw calories per day.

To answer your question in the other thread. I was using FitDay to track my foods, so I was seeing the calories whether I wanted or not. In the past three weeks I stopped FitDay-ing and I only count net carbs on paper. Unlike before, I noticed my calories vary from day to day more than when I was entering everything in FitDay. I imagine the days will balance in the end. Anyway, after the fourth week I will figure out weekly average calories (weekly to account for TOM...) just to see what my averages were and how they compare with my "usual" FitDay calorie intakes.

[not2late]

Re: Carbs, calories and stalls. . . .

Further to my question about who counts calories, could it be a stall is just as likely to be caused by going over your calorie limit as it is going over your carb tolerance?? Inquiring minds want to know!!

It's possible. But remember on Atkins you have the "metabolic advantage", which is the ability to eat about 200-400 more calories more and still lose weight.

[ldyj]

Re: Carbs, calories and stalls. . . .

The "metabolic advantage" is more than just being able to eat more if necessary, it's also an appetite suppressant, so calorie counting should NOT be necessary. I know my body and I know what's happening (the reason I've stayed where I am for the last 10 days or so) and I'm willing to wait it out. But, just in case, I wanted to be sure that calorie consumption, while if I went nuts over nuts could be a problem, was not the reason. Oh, FYI, I do try to stay around 1,500. Like Georgiana some days I'm over and some days I'm under, I haven't looked at my average, maybe I should???

[JulieB]

Re: Carbs, calories and stalls. . . .

The "metabolic advantage" is more than just eating more, it also controls your appetite, so carb counting should NOT be necessary...

Did you mean calorie counting?

[ldyj]

Re: Carbs, calories and stalls. . . .

Oops, I sure did!! Thanks for the catch!

[msanjelpie]

Re: Carbs, calories and stalls. . . .

First there is induction and then comes the after induction stall and then comes weight loss at a slower pace... and then comes normal stalls every 10 lbs or so... it's after all that when one starts to question why the stalls are happening and what they can do to speed up the process... at that point they start looking at everything they do and eat under a microscope and at some point calories per day come into play... If you are in to Atkins for the long hall and starting to get frustrated around stall #3 or so you start paying attention to calories and wondering if that's the culprit... So you lower your calories if they are high (2000+) and lo and behold you start losing again... but wait, now comes stall #4, what can I change now? I know I can add more exercise... weight loss starts up again... eventually you are doing everything you possibly can, eating the right food, counting carbs, counting calories, going up the rungs of OWL, exercising your little heart out... and shoot! another stall! Now what? well patience... patience is often the best answer, but it takes a while to get there... and it takes a while to realize that weight loss is not a race... 6 months, 12 months, it really doesn't matter... you are getting healthier, feeling better, losing weight, gaining strength...

Counting calories doesn't hurt... it's just one more tool to add to our arsenal of things we can DO to make Atkins successful.

[ldyj]

Re: Carbs, calories and stalls. . . .

Well stated!!

[neutronnorman]

Re: Carbs, calories and stalls. . . .

Jeannette, try staggering your calories. That seems to always help. If you are shooting for 1500 cal per day, Monday eat 1500 cal, Tuesday maybe 1200, Wednesday 1800, and so forth. That keeps the body guessing and stops your metabolism from adjusting to a certain energy input. It can really break a stall. I really don't count calories, I go by the way I feel and how I look in the mirror just wearing briefs. Your body has an uncanny way of telling you if you are gaining or losing fat.
Overall, I'm a firm believer in strength training for both men and women. I know you gave it a shot but stopped. It's quite possible you were not recovering from your workouts. Overtraining is not a myth. It is mostly prevalent in marathon runners. And weight lifters also. If you were working out with weights more than the capacity for your body to recover, then weight training would be mentally, physically and 'spiritually' draining. Some people can train 3X's weekly, every other day, some more and some less. Maybe you should consider strength training again, but cutting down the number of sets and maybe just training Mondays and Thursdays.
Weight training is possibly the best way to break stalls because of hormone modulation and manipulation. Losing weight should not be the primary goal, the goal should be changing body composition. Well, anyway, that's my 2 cents worth.

[ldyj]

Re: Carbs, calories and stalls. . . .

Your 2c worth struck a cord with me, Norman - Thanks!

I used to LOVE weight training. Some years ago, I took a Body Pump class at LV Athletic Club 2x a week and did my own thing 2x a week. I know the feeling of doing that type of training, how empowered you feel. I had the best instructor, a good looking guy who, on Halloween, wore cat eye contacts as we worked out to Phantom of the Opera! He was fond of free weights, bar bells and using your own body weight (think dips and pushups). It was so much fun. But my local gym (actually a "fitness center") uses Swiss balls and free weights at their Body Pump class and, since my knee surgery, I've had trouble getting up and down as fast as the class requires. So, I purchased my own Swiss ball this last week, I have weights, and a book of progressive exercises working all of the body through out the week, plus cardio (which I don't have a problem with). Not a lot, but a beginning, hopefully one that will get my mind on track. Now, as my husband points out daily, when am I going to start?

I also liked your idea of mixing up the calories. As I was doing my famous "weight gain" I stayed at the weight I am now for years - it's a long story, too long to tell again, but I really think my body has stalled here because it is a weight it's familiar with. I weighed 110 longer than what I currently weigh, just think how easy it will be to stay there when I get there! Actually, I don't think I'll try for 110, but I'd sure be happy with 120-125!

[Emre Yigit]

Re: Carbs, calories and stalls. . . .

Well, if it helps any, let me tell you what happened to me.

I started inputting my calories etc into calorie counter a few days before the end of the diet. I was shocked to see how few I was getting (700 less than my 2300-2500 daily requirement). After hitting maintenance, I immediately upped my calories by 500* or so to about 200 below my "maintenance" weight, while I kept carbs at the pre-maintenance level. For two days, I gained. Then for two days I stayed roughly flat, two days I lost a little, and now I have begun to lose again, too rapidly for my liking.

I shall keep with the current program for another week, before hiking calories again and maybe carbs too. My carbs will perforce remain low because my main intake is from fruit (and there is a limit to how much I can eat!).

Looking back at what I ate during the diet, there does appear to be an appetite suppressant effect, plus (as per BBC) some benefit from the proteins we eat as opposed to carbs. The two together are pretty powerful. And with respect to calories, it does appear that just as your body adjusts a little to reduced calorie intake, it also does so to increased. Which is why, though my suggested calorie intake is 2400, I talk about 2300-2500.

And while the dear doctor did say we could avoid calorie counting, let us not forget that he also said that this was not an excuse to binge eat protein and fat. So, my suggestion would be to keep track of your calories, but not to worry about them unless you're very far from your recommended daily intake.


* That was difficult!

[attagirl_]

Re: Carbs, calories and stalls. . . .

i love this thread b/c it touches on the synergy seemingly required to lose weight. i agree: body composition is the goal and weight training changes your shape better than anything AND removes the possibility of losing muscle (which slows your metabolism) when you lose weight through diet alone. as for the calore counting part--if you consume fewer calories than your body requires at rest then you'e just buying into the low-cal phenomenon, which sends your body into starvation mode, storing all available energy, regardless if you're eating the perfect atkins food. you HAVE to consume more than your minimal energy requirement to lose weight (roughly, your weight x 10 = min cal requirement). the world health org (WHO) considers a diet below 2100 cal for men and below 1800 cal for women a "starvation diet." !!!! dr. atkins was right: you have to eat to lose weight and calorie deficit isn't the answer. there are a thousands of complicated processes occuring in our bodies at any given time, and the food we eat sends signals to inform those processes. the most basic signal sent is the survival one: if you aren't eating enough, your body knows and goes into emergency energy conservation. the key is eating the RIGHT calories, and atkins is right on about that. ok, off my soapbox.

[Georgiana]

Re: Carbs, calories and stalls. . . .

The "metabolic advantage" is more than just being able to eat more if necessary, it's also an appetite suppressant, so calorie counting should NOT be necessary.

No, no, no. It's not the metabolic advantage that is an appetite suppresant. The metabolic advantage is just what Megs said---the property of a diet that allows one to lose more weight on that diet than on a diet of equal number of calories but with a different macronutrient ratio. The appetite suppression on Atkins, on the other hand, is a consequence of ketosis. So while the two usually go together when following Atkins, the metabolic advantage is not an appetite suppressant. We're talking about two completely different things.

[not2late]

Re: Carbs, calories and stalls. . . .

Jeannette, try staggering your calories. That seems to always help. If you are shooting for 1500 cal per day, Monday eat 1500 cal, Tuesday maybe 1200, Wednesday 1800, and so forth.

That happens naturally for me, without having to count calories. Some days I'm "hungrier" than other days, so I eat more. I just eat to suit my energy needs and it all works out well for me. For example today, for breakfast I had a hard boiled egg and a rye cracker. I did all my Saturday morning errands and I'm still feeling as full as I did after breakfast. For lunch, I'll probably have some green beans and a chicken leg. But yesterday......oh boy.....for breakfast I had a leftover pork chop, hummus and a rye cracker, for lunch I had a whole tomato with basil mayonnaise, arugula, 2 chicken thighs, and a fresh apricot, for dinner I had a big piece of a really fatty baked salmon, green beans, more arugula, rice and a nice piece of Brie.

[matawguro]

Re: Carbs, calories and stalls. . . .

That happens naturally for me, without having to count calories. Some days I'm "hungrier" than other days, so I eat more. I just eat to suit my energy needs and it all works out well for me.

Um, what she said.

Also, some useful blog posts in the subject...

Caloric torpedos | The Blog of Michael R. Eades, M.D.

Low carb and calories, part 2 | The Blog of Michael R. Eades, M.D.