Protein Questions

[goin2befit]

Just curious about Protein... Georgiana had posted about portion sizes... and at the same time I was thinking about protein. I have suddenly dropped about 4 pounds in just a few days and not really sure why! (maybe b/c I'm doing Atkins) ... so anyways... honestly I looked over what I have been eating and I realized I am eating less meat. So that brought my mind to some questions...

Is cheese considered Protein?

How much Protein is one serving? US or European? I eat mostly fish/tuna, chicken (leg and thigh), and ground beef...

I believe I read that excess protein converts to glucose?!?! What does this mean exactly?

How does one know how much protein they should be eating? Based on weight, standard, ect?

I hope that this is why I've been so slow to loose the weight and that this weight loss continues.

Thanks,

Edited to ask: I see 100 grams equal 3.5 ounces is this raw or after it is cooked?

Can some people tell me how many ounces/grams they eat a day of protein... except Norman! b/c for sure I would be a whale!!!

[Georgiana]

Re: Protein Questions

Is cheese considered Protein?

Cheese has protein in it. And some fat and a bit of carbohydrate. So yes, cheese does contribute to your daily protein intake.

How much Protein is one serving? US or European? I eat mostly fish/tuna, chicken (leg and thigh), and ground beef...

I'm not sure if you are asking how much protein you should eat at one meal or how much meat you should eat at one meal.

Protein. There is no exact amount to eat at a meal. You should eat until satisfied and combine the protein with fat and a few of your daily carbs. You know you had not eaten enough protein if you are hungry an hour after your meal (as per Atkins Center before 2003).

Meat. No exact quantity here either. But if you look at the recipes in DANDR, a serving size of meat is usually 3-8 oz. At our university cafeteria, meat portion sizes vary between 3-6 oz: chicken is usually 3-4 oz (if breast) or a drumstick or 3 wings or, if you are very luck, a whole small chicken leg (drumstick+thigh); beef is 3-4 oz (depends on the cut and on how generous the lady at the cafeteria is ); pork is 3-4 oz; lamb is about 4 oz; fish varies between 3-6 oz (if it's salmon, we get 3 oz... if it's some crappy fish, we get more ).

I believe I read that excess protein converts to glucose?!?! What does this mean exactly?

Atkins is a high fat, moderate protein, low carbohydrate diet and the glucogenic part of protein can be converted into glucose via a process called "gluconeogenesis". Some of the resulting glucose will go to cells lacking mitochondria (which is a good thing), but too much of it will trigger insulin release, further leading to the storage of fatty acids and glucose.

How does one know how much protein they should be eating? Based on weight, standard, ect?

Atkins is 30% protein. If you are consuming 2500 calories (random number), then 30% would mean about 185-190 grams of protein per day.

Colette Heimowitz was saying in 2003 that Atkins dieters begin their Induction by eating about 2 g of protein for every kg of body weight and obviously decrease as the person is losing weight. The numbers look right for a person weighing, say, 150 lbs, but become strange for someone weighing 350 lbs.

For 150 lbs, 2 g of protein for every kg of body weight means 135 g of protein per day. This amount of protein would represent about 30% of the total caloric intake for a daily caloric intake of 1800 calories.

For 350 lbs, 2 g of protein for every kg of body weight means 320 g of protein. To make this 30% of your daily calories, you'd have to eat 4250 calories. It could be just right for some 350-lbs Atkineers, but it could be too much for others (same for the 150-lbs case, but it's less obvious).

The difference mainly arises from the different percentages of lean body mass a 150-lbs and a 350-lbs persons probably have. There are formulas that approximate your protein needs based on this, but none are 100% accurate. Better stick to 30% of your daily calories (use FitDay to track numbers) and eat until you are satisfied (not stuffed).

Edited to ask: I see 100 grams equal 3.5 ounces is this raw or after it is cooked?

100 g equals approximately 3.5 oz regardless if the food is raw or cooked. 100 g of raw spinach = 3.5 oz of raw spinach. 100 g of cooked cauliflower = 3.5 oz of cooked cauliflower. Weight of food changes in cooking. All veggies should be measured raw.

Can some people tell me how many ounces/grams they eat a day of protein... except Norman! b/c for sure I would be a whale!!!

It depends how many calories I eat that day. I usually eat around 80-120 grams of protein, but don't try to apply this number to you.

Congrats for the 4 lbs!

[phil h]

Re: Protein Questions

Great explanation Georgiana. With low carb eating not getting enough protein is a non issue with me.Only thing that concerns me is watching the carbs.Everything else works out naturally.

[Georgiana]

Re: Protein Questions

Great explanation Georgiana. With low carb eating not getting enough protein is a non issue with me.Only thing that concerns me is watching the carbs.Everything else works out naturally.

I noticed the same thing, Phil. I'll soon make a separate post about this, but I didn't use FitDay in past month and just used a carb counter to figure out the net carbs. Today I entered everything in FitDay (yes, it took forever!) and my averages for the month are 27% protein, 15% carbs and 58% fat. I'm in OWL Rung 4, which is why my fat is lower and carbs higher... but the protein is right where it has to be.

[goin2befit]

Re: Protein Questions

Wow!! Thanks so much for the information. Does the fat help break down the protein? I know of another "diet" out there and for my body type I was to eat 2oz of protein at a meal (5-6 meals a day). Other body types were allowed bigger portion sizes. I also had an endocrinologist tell me to eat nothing for 3 years and if I needed to eat only veggies (he said this based upon blood results and looking at the back of my kneck!!) Anywho... those things just kinda stick in the back of my mind.

As for eating. I realized I feel better almost not eating. (I fast for religious purposes so I don't feel the need to have to eat just b/c a little hungry, ect) Lets say I wake up and eat breakfast. If it is just 2 eggs I feel way better then 2-3 eggs with peppers and tomato with it. Same for lunch. I feel better with a small serving of a cauliflower casserole with a chicken leg as opposed to cauliflower with leg and thigh. It almost feels as my body is not sure how to handle the food (although I don't feel it is a big portion of food) And for like 2 hours after I eat I will feel tired, and moody like. Any thoughts on that?

Thanks a million!

[Georgiana]

Re: Protein Questions

Does the fat help break down the protein?

No. Fat and protein just minimize the impact carbohydrates have on your blood sugar and help you feel satisfied between your meals.

I know of another "diet" out there and for my body type I was to eat 2oz of protein at a meal (5-6 meals a day).

By protein, you mean meat? That's about the amount of meat I eat when I'm at the uni, just that I have it in 3 meals per day instead of 5-6. If it's protein, as in 2 oz (57 g) of protein 5-6 times per day, then that's a lot of protein!

Lets say I wake up and eat breakfast. If it is just 2 eggs I feel way better then 2-3 eggs with peppers and tomato with it. Same for lunch. I feel better with a small serving of a cauliflower casserole with a chicken leg as opposed to cauliflower with leg and thigh. It almost feels as my body is not sure how to handle the food (although I don't feel it is a big portion of food) And for like 2 hours after I eat I will feel tired, and moody like. Any thoughts on that?

Blood sugar instabilities can make you tired and moody. Dr. Keith Berkowitz was talking in a "Livin' La Vida Low Carb" episode about hypoglycemia affecting some low carbers. His recommendations were eating breakfast, having meals with some fat and protein and not eating carby foods alone, eating more smaller meals throughout the day instead of three bigger meals, choosing veggies high in fiber, taking a fiber supplement, making sure you sleep well at night, exercising regularly (esp. strength training), avoiding caffeine, tabacco and alcohol (which you do anyway since you're in Induction).

He said that all those who suspect hypoglycemia should take a glucose tolerance test with insulin levels and an HgbA1c.

I'd give you the link to the podcast, but they have been having some problems since spring and the links are broken.

[goin2befit]

Re: Protein Questions

2 oz (57 g) of protein 5-6 times per day, then that's a lot of protein!

I guess that is something I really didn't take in consideration. It is per 2oz of meat.. so like a chicken thigh has 10 grams of protein.. Eggs only have like 6 or 7grams of protein. I would have to think then that I can only tolerate about 15-20 grams at any one meal and more towards the 15 ( That would have me at around 75-90 grams a day, would that be okay?)

He said that all those who suspect hypoglycemia should take a glucose tolerance test with insulin levels and an HgbA1c.

I have had the 1 hours glucose test several times during pregnancies and it was always okay.. My mom showed fine as well, but with the 3 hour test she failed. I should have that checked. Would me doing Atkins already for a while affect the results of the test?

[Georgiana]

Re: Protein Questions

I guess that is something I really didn't take in consideration. It is per 2oz of meat.. so like a chicken thigh has 10 grams of protein.. Eggs only have like 6 or 7grams of protein. I would have to think then that I can only tolerate about 15-20 grams at any one meal and more towards the 15 ( That would have me at around 75-90 grams a day, would that be okay?)

At your weight, 75-90 grams is too low no matter how you calculate your protein needs. Because for Atkineers dietary protein contribute to the glucose needed by the body, we have to eat more protein than standard formulas tell us.

I don't understand though... Why are you limiting yourself to 15 g of protein per meal?

I have had the 1 hours glucose test several times during pregnancies and it was always okay.. My mom showed fine as well, but with the 3 hour test she failed. I should have that checked. Would me doing Atkins already for a while affect the results of the test?

For the results of the glucose tolerance test to be accurate, you need to eat at least 150 g of carbohydrate per day for at least four days before the test. If you discuss your symptoms to your doctor, he/she can tell you whether such a test is necessary.

[Georgiana]

Re: Protein Questions

Oh, wait. When you said 75-90 grams of protein, were you confused by me saying that that's what I usually eat at the uni? That's not what I meant. So, you said 2 oz 5-6 times a day, which means a total of 10-12 oz of meat per day. So divided between 3 meals, that's 3-4 oz of meat per meal. I usually don't eat meat at breakfast, so it would be more like 5-6 oz for lunch and 5-6 oz for dinner. Sometimes I eat less than that. But this is not the only protein I eat. I also get protein from eggs and cheese, for example. So my protein is higher than what I get from meat alone.

Regarding the minimum amount of protein you need to eat. "Weight of the Evidence" is the blog of a low carber who has a PhD in Nutrition: Weight of the Evidence
On her blog she says that the minimum amount of protein a low carber should eat to supply the minimum amount of amino acids needed by the body (incl. for gluconeogenesis) can be approximated by multiplying the weight (in pounds) by 0.4. The result will be amount of protein in grams. So if you weigh 354 lbs, you need a minimum of 142 grams of protein daily. If you are hungry you should eat more protein. If you are active, you should definitely eat more than that. She also says that excess protein consumption (assuming you are not super active) is taking over 35% of your calories from protein or eating over 0.8-1 g of protein per lb of body weight. For you this would mean 283-354 g of protein per day.

But as I said before, these are just approximations. I would aim for something between 150 and 200-250 grams (depending on your daily calories). 75-90 grams is clearly not enough.

[goin2befit]

Re: Protein Questions

Thanks so much. I haven't really ever used fitday to track all my food, I just kinda use it to check carbs, ect, and I have plugged in a couple of days to see about where I stand and I'm good on my #'s...

So I decided to really pay attention to how many grams of protein I had.. .well, on an urealistic day I could maybe end up having 152 grams!! But more like 117grams! So the menu looks like this

Breakfast: 3 eggs fried in 2 TBSP EVOO
Snack: 2-3 oz of cheddar cheese/cream cheese
Lunch: 1 can of tuna (6oz), 2 TBSP mayonaise, 1 cup lettuce, 1/2 cup tomato, 1/2 cup cucumber...
Dinner: chicken leg and thigh with skin and 1 cup of cauliflower casserole.

Total: 1,643 calories, 119.7g fat (65%), 23.7g carbs (5%), 117 g protein (30%)

As for exercise I do 30 mins on my exercise bike and use strength P90 video 2-3X's per week. Otherwise I walk alot b/c I live in NYC so walking to the store, park with kids, library, laundry mat, ect...

[Georgiana]

Re: Protein Questions

The menu looks good. You might find that you are more hungry some days --- then it's perfectly fine to eat more than what's on that menu. Other days you might be less hungry and you'll eat less.

That's some great exercise you're doing! Good for you!

[msanjelpie]

Re: Protein Questions

I checked fitday and my daily protein jumped between 60 and 110 most often in the 70 to 95 range...

[RosieC]

Re: Protein Questions

Bumping this old but very useful thread because I am confused about protein.

I've been working hard to plan 30% of calories from protein. I add things like liquid egg white and white fish to increase the protein without increasing fat. These are not things I would normally eat a lot of ... I like salmon and whole eggs

So now I see that I am way over the minimum protein requirement for my weight (which I knew I was by most standards, but I thought Atkins must be higher). At 157 lb, the 0.4/0.8 calculation gives me a range of about 65g - 125g protein per day and I am averaging 115g. I don't work out much and this seems unnecessarily high.

So does this mean I can cut out the liquid egg whites and settle for around 100g protein per day even if this means less than 30% protein?

My calories are averaging 1530 on this plan ... which is not so high ... obviously the way to keep up the ratio of protein to fat without adding egg whites etc would be to cut calories from fat, but going below 1500 would be quite strict calorie control for me.

Or am I just going too far with the planning here
(But I need some kind of a plan right now, otherwise I never have the right food in the house)

[Georgiana]

Re: Protein Questions

So now I see that I am way over the minimum protein requirement for my weight (which I knew I was by most standards, but I thought Atkins must be higher).

Yes, it needs to be higher on Atkins, because some of the protein we eat is used in gluconeogenesis, to make glucose for those cells lacking mitochondria.

At 157 lb, the 0.4/0.8 calculation gives me a range of about 65g - 125g protein per day and I am averaging 115g.

I would use the protein intake used by Dr. Phinney in his studies... that's usually in the range of 1.2-1.75 g of protein per kg of body weight. So for you, that means 85-125 g of protein (close to the 0.4/0.8 calculation). As I have said in another thread today, personally I wouldn't go as high as 125 g unless you exercise a lot. 1.75 g of protein per kg was used in a study that had lean men as subjects... so their protein requirements were naturally higher.

So does this mean I can cut out the liquid egg whites and settle for around 100g protein per day

100 g is fine...

even if this means less than 30% protein and therefore more than 65% fat, since I won't increase carbs (yet)?

Yes, that is fine. The percentages are only important for fueling ketosis.

My calories are averaging 1530 on this plan ... which is not so high ... obviously the way to increase the ratio of protein to fat without adding egg whites etc would be to cut calories from fat, but going below 1500 would be quite strict calorie control for me.

Your calories are fine, in my opinion. You shouldn't go below 1500.

[RosieC]

Re: Protein Questions

Thanks Georgiana! That will feel much more natural to me.

That saves me the cost of another batch of liquid egg whites too