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  • Is Atkins only for the morbidly obese?

    Originally posted by mizski View Post
    Pasta is not poison nor is bread or many other grains. The problem is that so much of our food is junk and full of chemicals. And the typical US diet is off the charts portion-wise.
    Exactly... Pasta is only bad for those who can no longer handle it... and even then, it's okay, but you have to watch how much you eat moreso than a person with normal metabolism.

    The big thing I see here is that 40 lbs is not a lot of weight. I lost that in two months, but I'm relatively more overweight... I think a lot of people are on Atkins who don't need to be on Atkins. Dr. Atkins himself said it was for the morbidly obese and metabolically challenged only. I looked through some of the starting photos on this web site and half the people on this site don't fit that category. It was originally conceived as a diet for diabetics. Atkins believes that we ALL eat too many carbs... But eating the carbs you should when you have a normal metabolism and going on Atkins are two completely different animals.

    Trying to Atkins off 20 lbs was what got ME into trouble. I went on Atkins when I was 250 lbs (my ideal weight was 227 lbs) and yo-yo'd on and off Atkins and Weight Watcher's over the many years. Atkins had the worst rebound effect by far.... The problem with the Atkins diet is that it is designed to be a lifestyle change for those with a burned out metabolism from eating too many of the wrong foods for too long and are now seriously obese. It's more than a simple weight adjustment diet. 6 months after I started Atkins to lose weight at 250 and 3 months after I quit Akins, I was 280 lbs... and then more and more each time I tried. I had never READ THE BOOK. If you haven't read the book, you must do so and see if this really is your diet.

    Every time I fell off the wagon with Atkins, I immediately gained back DOUBLE the weight that I lost in half the time that it took me to lose it... This put me up to my current starting weight of 425 lbs, diabetic, low thyroid, high cholesterol, high blood pressure, and water retention in my extremeties.

    So using the Atkins as a temporary wieght loss diet or for anything other than for what it was originally intended for will eventually put you in the category for needing the Atkins diet anyway... You have to understand that when you get on the diet, YOU CAN NEVER GET OFF IT... ever... Kiss normal eating by everyone else's standards goodbye. There will never be a day when you can sit in front of the TV with a pint of Haagen Das... You can never eat halloween candy with your kids... You can never knock back a six pack of regular beer while fishing with your buddies ever again... You can never have sugar or carbs the way you used to ever again... You have to face it in that way... or you'll be twice as overweight as you are now...

    Now there's no going back for me. If I fall off the Atkin's wagon again, it will likely be a death sentence.

    Whereas, I think back when I was 250 lbs, if I had just gone for a walk every day and cut out the junk food, I would have probably been okay today.

    If you are only 40 lbs overweight and you have a normal metabolism, you just need to eat healthy and excersize. At 40 lbs, there's probably nothing wrong with your metabolism that requires you to lose weight through the drastic carb cutting measures of Atkins. Sure, everyone out there probably needs to cut back on their carb intake from the perceived normal diet the media sells us... But follow a lifestyle tip from Jack Lalanne, the old TV excersize and lifestyle guru from the 60's, "If God didn't make it, DON'T EAT IT" and get plenty of exersize and over a long time and months and months of commitment you'll be back in shape. Using Atkins weight loss diet as a quick weight loss gimmick or as a mispercieved need to cut too many carbs from your lifestyle when you have somewhat normal metabolism is a REALLY REALLY BAD IDEA - At least from my experience...

    There are some ladies out there who have a fantasy that they are horribly overweight from the Barbi Doll sensationalism foisted upon them by beauty magazines and by men who's perceptions of female beauty are also warped under the same mass media brainwashing. For centuries and centuries, a curvy figure was considered to be the height of sexiness and optimal health... It still is among non-Western cultures. This same figure today is deemed extremely fat by the granola crunching, yogurt swilling, livestrong, Vogue magazine wannabe's... I think many misperceptions of what "healthy" is for women (as opposed to attractive by current beauty trends) has led some here who don't need to be here and has turned men's opinions of these women in the same direction.

    So be easy on your wife, especially if she is in good health. Try to get "into" how she looks just as she is. Women are supposed to have more body fat, on average, then men, especially after having children. Don't expect her to be as skinny as you should be. Nobody likes to be told they're obese, either directly or indirectly and it isn't necessary if they're in good health. Instead, encourage a healthy, active lifestyle. Get rid of the junk food for you, your wife and your kids and let things fix themselves. It's not an overnight process and don't expect that what is healthy for your wife is what you see in FHM or serving your salad at Hooters... But that's my opinion.

    Just to be clear, there's the Atkins attitude toward lifestyle and healthy eating (and what is healthy eating) - which is good for everyone.
    Then there is the Atkins Weight Loss diet which is not good for everyone...

    At least that's my tip from 20+ years of dieting mistakes... Now everyone will probably jump down my throat in reply... So I'm going to go put my battle armor on and dig a fox hole and wait for the barrage of angry responses, but that's how I see it...
    Last edited by Muscat Moose; August 27, 2009, 03:59 AM.
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  • #2
    Re: Getting support, and supporting your significant other....

    Originally posted by Muscat Moose
    Dr. Atkins himself said it was for the morbidly obese and metabolically challenged only.
    Could you please give a reference for this. I never knew that Atkins is only for those morbidly obese or metabolically challenged. Thanks.

    It was originally conceived as a diet for diabetics.
    And for this one too.
    Last edited by Georgiana; August 27, 2009, 03:30 AM.
    "Get action. Seize the moment. Man was never intended to become an oyster."

    -- Theodore Roosevelt

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    • #3
      Re: Getting support, and supporting your significant other....

      I believe it's in his first book (now out of print) and in his VHS video and I think it is also in his New Diet Revolution. Those books are back in the US, having not brought them with me to Oman since I read them already. For some wierd reason I have his VHS video. I'll go through it and see where it is... I currently am working with the Atkins Diabetes Revolution book... It's not written there since the title automatically assumes you have a metabolism problem. It is also not written by Atkins, but is based on his research.. But I know for sure that he said in his other books that the diet was intended for the very obese and those who can no longer properly metabolize carbohydrates. If someone can help with the where and what page regarding the quote, I'd appreciate it.

      But Carbohydrate restriction for the treatment of diabetes has been around since 1898 (Dr. Elliot Joslin) See link.


      If my memory serves me, one of the side effects of controling diabetes by restriction sugar and carbohydrate consumption was weight loss... hence the low carb dieting for weight loss...
      Last edited by Muscat Moose; August 27, 2009, 05:33 AM.
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      • #4
        Re: Getting support, and supporting your significant other....

        Originally posted by Muscat Moose
        I believe it's in his first book (now out of print) and in his VHS video. I have the video. I'll go through it and see where it is... I currently am working with the Atkins Diabetes Revolution book... But it is not written by Atkins, though based on his research.
        From DANDR 2002, Chapter 13:
        Although Induction offers plenty of advantages, there are lots of valid reasons for progressing: boredom with the food choices, modest weight loss goals (say 20 or 30 pounds) and perhaps the chance to avoid becoming dependent on a "crash diet" mentality.
        So Dr. Atkins did not reserve his diet exclusively for morbidly obese people and for those with a high metabolic resistance (I guess that's what you mean by "metabolically challenged"). On the contrary, he specifically mentions those who only have 20-30 lbs to lose, his only comment being that they should not do extended Induction.

        By the way, at ADBB we go by DANDR 2002.

        But Carbohydrate restriction for the treatment of diabetes has been around since 1898 (Dr. Elliot Joslin) See link.


        If my memory serves me, one of the side effects of controling diabetes by restriction sugar and carbohydrate consumption was weight loss... hence the low carb dieting for weight loss...
        I agree with the stuff Megs wrote. But you were talking specifically about the Atkins Diet.
        "Get action. Seize the moment. Man was never intended to become an oyster."

        -- Theodore Roosevelt

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        • #5
          Re: Getting support, and supporting your significant other....

          Got booted in the middle of editing my post and I see you responded in the process. I know he wrote that it was only for the very obese, stating that these individuals already have a metabolic problem. I'll find where he wrote it and get back to you. Both my DADR and DANDR copies are back in the US along with my audio books and the like. I have his video.. I'll see if it's there.
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          • #6
            Re: Getting support, and supporting your significant other....

            Quote from Dr. Colette Heimowitz (Director of Nutrition at the Atkins Center in New York)

            "...the diet is not for everyone, Heimowitz warned. "It's for those who need a correction in their sugar and carbohydrate metabolism...We encourage (vitamin) supplementation and an intake of 'good' fats, such as fish oil," Heimowitz commented."

            Quoted from here: Atkins Diet - Dr. Atkins's New Diet Revolution

            ...also...

            "Not for everyone. Dr. Robert Atkins makes it quite clear in his book that the Atkins Diet is not for overeaters or people with eating disorders. It is intended for people whose bodies show clear signs of having difficulty processing and utilizing carbohydrate."

            Quoted from: http://diet.lovetoknow.com/wiki/Atki...t_Health_Risks

            "Unfortunately the Atkins Diet is not for everyone. Atkins wisely cautions people with chronic health problems to avoid his diet. [9] People who benefit most from the Atkins Diet are the extremely obese. Most people who are extremely obese need to lose weight more than any other health related issue."

            Quoted from: http://www.seinberg.net/wordpress/?page_id=38#_ftn10
            Last edited by Muscat Moose; August 27, 2009, 06:27 AM.
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            • #7
              Re: Getting support, and supporting your significant other....

              My doctor must have not gotten the memo...

              The first thing he asks me at each annual physical is whether or not I'm still on the Atkins plan... he is very pro-Atkins. And not just for extremely obese or diabetic patients.


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              ~One day at a time. Realistically. Gradually. Consciously. FINALLY!




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              • #8
                Re: Getting support, and supporting your significant other....

                Originally posted by mitzimarie View Post
                My doctor must have not gotten the memo...

                The first thing he asks me at each annual physical is whether or not I'm still on the Atkins plan... he is very pro-Atkins. And not just for extremely obese or diabetic patients.
                As I said earlier... There's a difference between Atkins nutrition which should be for everyone and Atkins weight loss (weight loss through low carb induced ketosis)... He has nutrition right but he has said that his diet is not for everyone. Your pictures look great by the way! Fantastic job. You're an inspiration!
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                • #9
                  Re: Getting support, and supporting your significant other....

                  Sorry if I frustrated anyone with my constantly editing my posts... I did not expect such quick replies and was leisurely composing and saving as I composed... I learned to do that with online posting as you could be writing the next great essay that would have Shakespeare in tears and then Internet Explorer glitches and you lose it after creating the perfect masterpiece! Plus, I'm half way around the world. I didn't expect everyone to be up and surfing the net already. I'll try composing/editing offline from now on... My appologies!
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                  • #10
                    Re: Getting support, and supporting your significant other....

                    Originally posted by Muscat Moose
                    But I know for sure that he said in his other books that the diet was intended for the very obese and those who can no longer properly metabolize carbohydrates. If someone can help with the where and what page regarding the quote, I'd appreciate it.
                    I never said the diet was not intended for those obese. Diets that promote weight loss are usually not created specifically for those who are 10 lbs overweight. But this is not what you said in your first post here. You wrote that Dr. Atkins told us his diet is "for the morbidly obese and metabolically challenged only". It is the "only" part I do not agree with. And I definitely do not agree with you when you imply that half of the members who posted their pictures in the Before/After forum do not need to be on Atkins because they are not overweight enough (however you evaluated this). True, they could have chosen a different diet. But who is one not to support one's choice for Atkins, especially on an Atkins Diet support board?!

                    And by the way, it is not trying to lose 20 lbs on Atkins that got you into trouble, but starting Atkins without reading the book. Without reading the book, the outcome would have likely been the same, whether you were dealing with 20, 50, 100 or 200 extra pounds.

                    Originally posted by Muscat Moose
                    Quote from Dr. Colette Heimowitz (Director of Nutrition at the Atkins Center in New York)

                    "...the diet is not for everyone, Heimowitz warned. "It's for those who need a correction in their sugar and carbohydrate metabolism...We encourage (vitamin) supplementation and an intake of 'good' fats, such as fish oil," Heimowitz commented."

                    Quoted from here: Atkins Diet - Dr. Atkins's New Diet Revolution
                    It is not Colette who said that the diet is not for everyone, but whoever wrote that article (which was copy-pasted on different websites). Then it is clear that what Colette said was taken out of context. Besides, she never said that the diet is for those morbidly obese or very metabolically resistant only. To check this, you need to look on atkins [dot] com. The only suggestion Colette makes for those with <= 20 lbs to lose is that they may start from the OWL phase of Atkins instead of starting from Induction. You can check her blog on atkins [dot] com. The oldest post where she says this is from 2006 and the most recent is from a few months ago. She definitely does not tell those with <=20 lbs to lose that they don't need Atkins or that Atkins is not for them.

                    One example:
                    Originally posted by Colette Heimowitz, in response to a runner who was planning to start Induction
                    Since you are young and healthy and only have less than 20 lbs to lose, why don't you start the program in the OWL phase?

                    Link: The Atkins Community
                    Oh, and by the way, Colette Heimowitz went on the weight loss phases of Atkins after her pregnancy to shed about 20 lbs.

                    ...also...

                    "Not for everyone. Dr. Robert Atkins makes it quite clear in his book that the Atkins Diet is not for overeaters or people with eating disorders. It is intended for people whose bodies show clear signs of having difficulty processing and utilizing carbohydrate."

                    Quoted from: http://diet.lovetoknow.com/wiki/Atki...t_Health_Risks
                    You are not making any point with this (just like you are not making with your next quote, but I'm getting there). I want you to show me where it says (where Dr. Atkins said!) that Atkins is only "for the morbidly obese and metabolically challenged". The quotes you are pasting here do absolutely nothing to support your claim, regardless of what you are trying to emphasize by underlining some parts of the sentence.

                    "Unfortunately the Atkins Diet is not for everyone. Atkins wisely cautions people with chronic health problems to avoid his diet. [9] People who benefit most from the Atkins Diet are the extremely obese. Most people who are extremely obese need to lose weight more than any other health related issue."

                    Quoted from: Seinberg.net Photography An Atkins Culture
                    LOL! Com'on! Did you actually read that blog post or did you just Google "Atkins 'not for everyone'"? For those who don't want to waste their time reading the stuff, here are some excerpts (the comments in red are, obviously, mine):
                    It is well-known that fiber is an important part of the digestive process; lack of fiber contributes to bowel problems including constipation, and even increased cancer rates. [14] Dr. Atkins recommends a fiber supplement to his diet to compensate for constipation [15], essentially admitting his diet often causes constipation.

                    Reference [15] is from Chapter 9. Here is what it says there:
                    [...] In addition, if more fiber is needed during the Induction phase, I recommend a fiber supplement. This is unnecessary in the Ongoing Weight Loss phase and beyond because more fruits and vegetables are introduced into the eating plan.
                    The Induction Phase only needs to last for two weeks. Saying that "his diet often causes constipation" just proves how uninformed the blogger is, because he omits the fact that Induction is not the whole diet.
                    Here's another one:
                    Another problem is the body’s production of ketones to burn body fat. The ketones the body produces cause bad breath, kidney disease, and gout (acid build-up in the blood). [16]

                    This is the same old myth that's being repeated over and over again: low-carb diets cause kidney disease. There is not one study to prove this! Just because people who already have kidney disease have problems processing protein, it does not mean protein causes kidney disease.
                    Going back to the part you quoted:
                    Unfortunately the Atkins Diet is not for everyone. Atkins wisely cautions people with chronic health problems to avoid his diet. [9] People who benefit most from the Atkins Diet are the extremely obese.
                    Reference [9] is from page 120 of DANDR 2002. Here is what is says there:
                    • People with severe kidney disease should not do Atkins.
                    • The weight loss phases of the Atkins Nutritional Approach are not appropriate for pregnant women and nursing mothers.
                    • If you are currently taking diuretics, insulin or oral diabetes medications, you must undertake Atkins only under the guidance of a physician. Your decreasing reliance on these medications must be monitored and carefully adjusted.
                    So what does this have to do with what you said? I seriously doubt the majority of those who have only 20-40 lbs to lose has kidney disease, is pregnant, is nursing, takes diuretics, insulin or oral diabetes medications. You are proving nothing with your quotes, because they are not related to what you have said, i.e. that Atkins is "for the morbidly obese and metabolically challenged only".

                    And I hope you are not trying to prove that any of the phases of Atkins is dangerous for anyone who has less than xxx lbs to lose.
                    "Get action. Seize the moment. Man was never intended to become an oyster."

                    -- Theodore Roosevelt

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                    • #11
                      Re: Getting support, and supporting your significant other....


                      You have to understand that when you get on the diet, YOU CAN NEVER GET OFF IT... ever... Kiss normal eating by everyone else's standards goodbye. There will never be a day when you can sit in front of the TV with a pint of Haagen Das... You can never eat halloween candy with your kids... You can never knock back a six pack of regular beer while fishing with your buddies ever again... You can never have sugar or carbs the way you used to ever again... You have to face it in that way... or you'll be twice as overweight as you are now...


                      Actually what you describe as "normal eating", ie a pint of Haagen Das, isn't "normal eating". A serving of ice cream is 1/2 cup, not an entire pint.

                      Furthermore, what happens with Atkins is typically this: Everyone thinks that the entire Atkins Diet is the Induction Phase. So you can "never" eat fruit again, "never" eat potatoes again, "never" eat oatmeal again, etc. etc. etc. So they stay on Induction. Get bored. Fall off. Either try another diet or just keep restarting Atkins. In other words they yo-yo, which Dr. Atkins says can screw up your metabolism.

                      But if they had read the book and understood the diet, they would know that Induction Phase is only 1 part of the Diet. That in the other two weight loss phases, they can eat potatoes, fruit, oatmeal, etc. and still lose weight, they wouldn't go through all that trauma/drama. But they don't. So they stay on Induction and cheat...or as some people call it "tweak" it to suit their needs for the weekend or evening. Which only leads to more of a yo-yo diet plan, which leads to only more trauma/drama.

                      We have had people here with modest weight loss goals of less than 20 pounds and people with ambitious weight loss goals of over 100 pounds. If they stick to the Diet as Dr. Atkins wrote it, they are successful. If they do a Fake-kins, then it's a toss up: some times they are successful sometimes they aren't.

                      And if you don't follow a diet properly and you mess up your metabolism, then it's your fault, imo.
                      ~Megs~
                      242/141/160 (130)
                      dress size 26/10/8
                      5'4", Female, May 2, 2003
                      My blog:
                      http://mformiscellaneous.blogspot.com/

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                      • #12
                        Re: Getting support, and supporting your significant other....

                        I don't see the point in anything you said... I keep arguing apples and you keep arguing oranges... It probably lies in the fact that I heard it or read it outside of DANDR, but Dr. Atkins was very emphatic about it when he said it.

                        Since I don't have a copy DANDR it in front of me and you do, I'll take your point that is is not in there or leads you to believe otherwise. But he did say it and was very emphatic about it when he said it - saying it was a diet intended for the very overweight who have problems metabolizing carbohydrates. The quotes I showed you earlier indicate that but were all I could find on hand.

                        I'm at work and don't have access to a library of books sitting in front of me so please forgive my patchy google search replies. It was all I could find at the time.

                        Also, I believe I said that part of the problem with my failed weight loss was not actually reading the book... But also, back then the book was not the NEW Diet Revolution and there are a lot of facts in that book that he backed off of in his new book. Which still does not change the original intent of the diet by Dr. Atkins.

                        I'll find it and get back to you. You can't rely on just one book with Atkins. I'm sorry. There is a wealth of facts, do's and don't in his numerous books, audio books, interviews and videos...
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                        • #13
                          Re: Getting support, and supporting your significant other....

                          Originally posted by Muscat Moose View Post
                          I don't see the point in anything you said... I keep arguing apples and you keep arguing oranges... It probably lies in the fact that I heard it or read it outside of DANDR, but Dr. Atkins was very emphatic about it when he said it.

                          Since I don't have a copy DANDR it in front of me and you do, I'll take your point that is is not in there or leads you to believe otherwise. But he did say it and was very emphatic about it when he said it - saying it was a diet intended for the very overweight who have problems metabolizing carbohydrates. The quotes I showed you earlier indicate that but were all I could find on hand.

                          I'm at work and don't have access to a library of books sitting in front of me so please forgive my patchy google search replies. It was all I could find at the time.

                          Also, I believe I said that part of the problem with my failed weight loss was not actually reading the book... But also, back then the book was not the NEW Diet Revolution and there are a lot of facts in that book that he backed off of in his new book. Which still does not change the original intent of the diet by Dr. Atkins.

                          I'll find it and get back to you. You can't rely on just one book with Atkins. I'm sorry. There is a wealth of facts, do's and don't in his numerous books, audio books, interviews and videos...
                          I have read all of Dr. Atkins books, watched the video and have read most of his interviews. I don't recall where he claims that the Diet is only for the obese. In fact, he made it very clear in Atkins for Life that Atkins was for everyone---obese, overweight, normal weight.

                          Dr. Atkins believed that our contemporary diet (post 1940s) was killing us. Partly because we were using fake fats (like margarine), partly because we over-ate, and partly because we ingested too much sugar. In his books, he cites that prior to the 1940s, heart disease, Diabetes Type 2 (the adult onset diabetes) and obesity were rare. And he blamed that on excessive sugar consumption. He has a point about these diseases: if you look at medical and nutrition books from the early 20th century, they don't mention obesity---only malnourishment. Heart attacks were rare and the major form of Diabetes was Type 1 diabetes---a genetic problem in which the person cannot produce insulin.

                          For Dr. Atkins, all modern disease could be traced back to a high carb diet. So he encouraged everyone to drop the added sugars, the bad fats, the processed foods and start eating whole, minimally processed and refined foods. (He expands on this idea in Dr. Atkins Nutrition Breakthrough) And when you do eat that way, you essentially eat very little added sugars and other added carbohydrates: in other words, you eat a low carb diet.
                          ~Megs~
                          242/141/160 (130)
                          dress size 26/10/8
                          5'4", Female, May 2, 2003
                          My blog:
                          http://mformiscellaneous.blogspot.com/

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                          • #14
                            Re: Getting support, and supporting your significant other....

                            For what it's worth, here's what Dr. Atkins said to Larry King in 2003:

                            KING: Are some under risk switching to low carb?

                            ATKINS:
                            Very few people. I would say it shouldn't happen to a
                            pregnant woman or a woman who is feeding her infants. It
                            shouldn't happen to a person who already has kidney
                            disease. But a few statements like that which we make, but
                            basically other than that, very, very few people get in
                            trouble from carbohydrate restriction.
                            Low-Carb Pavilion - Larry King Inteviews Dr. Robert Atkins

                            I would think that if he thought the diet was only for obese people or metabolically resistant, he would have said so there.

                            Or, perhaps here, when asked about himself personally:

                            KING: Aren't they high in fat?

                            ATKINS: They're very low in carbohydrate. They're perfect.
                            And you have to understand that in the lifestyle, I'm on my
                            lifestyle,
                            I don't have to lose any more weight, I just
                            want to keep from gaining it, which is tough enough, but it
                            does allow me to eat an awful lot of vegetables, a lot of
                            nuts and seeds. I can eat 60 to 80 grams of carbohydrate a
                            day and in the book, my new book we talk about that. I just
                            don't have to like tofu but I can have it.
                            Dr. Atkins wasn't obese or metabolically resistant, and he was following his own diet.

                            And, finally, here he tells a parent to put a 13 year old on Atkins before "as soon as she" gets overweight (which we know is a big step before becoming obese and then severely obese):

                            CALLER: Hi. I have a 13-year-old daughter and I was
                            wondering how safe it would be for her to be on the diet?

                            ATKINS: I'm so glad you asked. Absolutely. As a matter of
                            fact, children who are overweight should start on the low
                            carbohydrate lifestyle as soon as they become overweight so
                            they don't get into these bad habits. But at the age of 13,
                            it is absolutely mandatory. How overweight is she?
                            CALLER: Oh, about 15 to 20 pounds.

                            ATKINS: Well, that's an easy thing. That means you should
                            be able to get her back to her ideal weight within five or
                            six weeks.
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                            • #15
                              Re: Getting support, and supporting your significant other....

                              Moose - is it possible you're thinking of Dr. Atkins saying only those people who are "morbidly obese or metabolically resistant" should stay on extended induction? While I still don't think that would quite accurate, it's probably closer to the truth and you might be legitimately confusing the context of what he said.

                              Just trying to help understand/figure out what the disconnect might be here.....
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