What is a "normal" eating and metabolism?

[not2late]

In another thread Muscat Moose and Georgianna stated this:

Kiss normal eating by everyone else's standards goodbye. There will never be a day when you can sit in front of the TV with a pint of Haagen Das... You can never eat halloween candy with your kids... You can never knock back a six pack of regular beer while fishing with your buddies ever again... You can never have sugar or carbs the way you used to ever again

and

Unless one has a super metabolism and no food issues, none of these will be achieved by eating all food groups and by exclusively cutting out sugar and processed foods. Besides, if someone had a super metabolism and no food issues, that person would not have gained 20-40 lbs in the first place.

What is "normal" eating and a "normal" metabolism?

Prior to the 19th century, sugar (sugar, honey, etc.) was consumed at a much lower rate than it is today. This was due to the expense of the sweetener (cane sugar is obtained from a tropical plant) and the scarcity of it (honey is dependent on whether or not you can find a bee hive, maple syrup is dependent on whether or not you live in a maple tree area). If you look at recipe books from the 18th century and earlier, much of their sweets were simply dried fruits or fruits boiled into jams and pastes. And these weren't consumed every day because of the limited availability of the raw material.

So is it "normal" to eat a high carbohydrate diet?

Recently the American Heart Association took the stance of "we want you to cut the added sugar!" (U.S. heart group draws hard line on sugar intake | Reuters)

The group said women should eat no more than 100 calories of added processed sugar per day, or six teaspoons (25 grams), while most men should keep it to just 150 calories or nine teaspoons (37.5 grams).

And is a "normal" metabolism one that can withstand large amounts of carbohydrates? Genetically speaking, it probably isn't. Because if mankind had the inherent ability to eat handfuls of Halloween candy, pints of ice cream, loaves of bread and gallons of sugared soda, then there wouldn't be medical problems like Diabetes Type 2, metabolic syndrome X, etc.

So why do we think that a "normal" diet is one that includes a high carbohydrate/sugar level and a "normal" metabolism is one that can process that high carb/sugar level?

[PeteinVA]

Re: What is a "normal" eating and metabolism?

Are humans meant to "pick" fruits and vegetables and kill/rip apart meat? I totally agree about too much sugar and carb and processed food consumption however am generally skeptical that we should not be 3/4 vegetarian and 1/4 meat & protein.

And a helluvaLOT more active.

[Georgiana]

Re: What is a "normal" eating and metabolism?

So is it "normal" to eat a high carbohydrate diet?

Recently the American Heart Association took the stance of "we want you to cut the added sugar!" (U.S. heart group draws hard line on sugar intake | Reuters)

The group said women should eat no more than 100 calories of added processed sugar per day, or six teaspoons (25 grams), while most men should keep it to just 150 calories or nine teaspoons (37.5 grams).

I saw this in the news a few days ago. While I think it's a good idea, I have no clue how one can figure out how much added processed sugar is in, let's say, canned pineapple. Of course, the smart thing to do is to act on the side of caution and buy raw pineapple, but I somehow doubt people will start doing this. Same thing about fruit juices.

And is a "normal" metabolism one that can withstand large amounts of carbohydrates? Genetically speaking, it probably isn't. Because if mankind had the inherent ability to eat handfuls of Halloween candy, pints of ice cream, loaves of bread and gallons of sugared soda, then there wouldn't be medical problems like Diabetes Type 2, metabolic syndrome X, etc.

So why do we think that a "normal" diet is one that includes a high carbohydrate/sugar level and a "normal" metabolism is one that can process that high carb/sugar level?

When I was a kid, Mom and Dad (read: Santa ) were not giving us a bag of candies and a dozen chocolate bars for Christmas. Nor on our birthdays. The presents were usually things like clothes, books, games (like board games, cards... something that all of us could play together) or, especially for Christmas, something that the whole family could use. The "bag of sweets" usually had an orange, some nuts, and if we were to get chocolate, it was a box of chocolate that lasted for half a year (for all four of us, so that's about 6-8 pieces of chocolate per person, in 6 months). Somehow, the bag of nasty sweets/snacks (chocolate, cookies, candies, chips) grew bigger as I grew older.

Pete, here's a nice essay by Sally Fallon and Mary Enig: Guts and Grease: Diet of Native Americans

[FwL]

Re: What is a "normal" eating and metabolism?

Are humans meant to "pick" fruits and vegetables and kill/rip apart meat? I totally agree about too much sugar and carb and processed food consumption however am generally skeptical that we should not be 3/4 vegetarian and 1/4 meat & protein.

And a helluvaLOT more active.

I look at it this way....

If any one of us were forced to live off the land starting today, what would we be eating? I'm skeptical that a person is going to forage enough edible roots and leaves everyday to be 3/4 vegetarian. They're going to be eating a lot of insects, grubs and whatever small game they can easily capture.

Modern agriculture is the only thing that makes fruits, grains and vegetables available in enough quantity for people to consider a predominantly vegetarian diet.

[Georgiana]

Re: What is a "normal" eating and metabolism?

A bit off topic, but thinking about the sugar limits recommended by AHA... they didn't mention any numbers for children/teens, did they?

This is an excerpt from Dr. Pescatore's book, "Feed Your Kids Well" (Chapter 2, p. 14):

Not long ago, a patient with a weight problem visited my office. As she removed her coat, she remarked casually, "My nephew was at a birthday part the other day, and they served pizza, cake, and ice cream. You know---all the good stuff." She paused for a moment, then sighed with envy, "Isn't it great that kids can get away with eating like that? I sure wish I could eat that way and not gain weight."

This attitude toward children and food reveals a terrible misconception that has led to millions of American children being overweight. And perhaps even more importantly, these same children, their eating patters established early in life, grow up to be adults who are constantly battling a weight problem, which inevitably dooms them to a lifelong struggle against obesity.

As parents, we are generally aware that the habits, values, and disciplines we instill in our children will serve them throughout their lives. Yet, oddly enough, we cling to the misguided notion that in terms of their eating habits, children are a species apart from the rest of the human race, that commonsense rules and well-established laws of cause and effect do not apply.

[FwL]

Re: What is a "normal" eating and metabolism?

If ever someone wanted proof that humans weren't designed to eat a grain-based diet, look at the American Indian population-almost all of them are battling overweight, diabetes, and heart disease. Addictions are common.

As a matter-of-fact, I did take a good look at the American Indian just this month at a local reservation pow-wow. I was completely atonished. It's no exaggeration to say that the amount of slim people I saw throughout the day could be counted on one hand. This includes both Indian and Wasichu.

[PeteinVA]

Re: What is a "normal" eating and metabolism?

I look at it this way....

If any one of us were forced to live off the land starting today, what would we be eating? I'm skeptical that a person is going to forage enough edible roots and leaves everyday to be 3/4 vegetarian. They're going to be eating a lot of insects, grubs and whatever small game they can easily capture.

Modern agriculture is the only thing that makes fruits, grains and vegetables available in enough quantity for people to consider a predominantly vegetarian diet.

Well luckily right now I have 7 or 8 apple trees (multiple varieties), pears, blackberries and an abundance of edible flowers, grains etc so I'd probably do okay for a few months hhah

For me I just think I feel much better overall when I eat a lot of green, berries/fruit, good dairy i.e. real yogurt, a very small amount of grains/ brown rice type of thing etc. NO REFINED FOODS. ZERO CHEESE. Good meat/game, everyday though- bloody rare!

I'm kind of dreaming of eating that way right now after being on Atkins for a month. I don't think my personality is adjusting to the large percentage of fat in my diet.

[sallyseachange]

Re: What is a "normal" eating and metabolism?

Cool thread Megs and interesting article (guts & grease) Georgiana. Thanks.

[FwL]

Re: What is a "normal" eating and metabolism?

So why do we think that a "normal" diet is one that includes a high carbohydrate/sugar level and a "normal" metabolism is one that can process that high carb/sugar level?

Somebody decided that the bulk of our diet is supposed to be cereals and grains. Just look at the USDA food pyramid.

The problem with eating cereals and grains is that you gotta dress them up with plenty of fat, salt and sugar. Add a heaping dose of "fat is going to kill you" scare tactics and all you're left with is sugar and salt. Well... salt is gonna kill us all too.

Pass the sugar, please. There's bowl of oatmeal somewhere that needs eating.

[not2late]

Re: What is a "normal" eating and metabolism?

When I was a child, we didn't have a "Food pyramid": it was the Basic 4 Food Groups. And saturday morning tv (children's programming) had public service announcements like this one:

YouTube - Time for Timer: "Hanker for a Hunk o' Cheese"

Granted, I remember fat was demonized for causing heart disease and every one was eating margarine. But I remember in first grade we were told that we had to eat 1 of each food group every meal. So 1 dairy, 1 meat, 1 veg, 1 grain. And I remember the cafeteria lunches were essentially that: 1 milk, 1 veg as salad or as a cooked veg, 1 meat/chicken/fish, 1 slice of bread or corn.

I'm not sure if a largely vegetarian diet is "okay". Especially since I gained 40 pounds while being a vegetarian. And considering that vegetarians today have a wider array of processed foods---soy hot dogs, soy hamburgers, etc.---it makes you wonder if the vegetarian diet today is any better than the non-vegetarian one.

Re: Georgianna's Christmas candy memory.

I remember reading the "Little House on the Prairie" books by Laura Ingalls Wilder. She described one Christmas where she and her sister were each given 1 peppermint stick and 1 cake. The peppermint stick they both made last as long as they could and they would only nibble on their cakes to prolong it. Then in the "Anne of Green Gables"books, Anne's big winter treat was an apple brought out from the root cellar. And in all those old books, it was a once in a while treat to have sweets, not a daily thing or a weekly thing.

So it makes me wonder why we think it's normal to eat alot of sugary/carby foods and why we think our metabolism is "bad" if it can't handle that carb load.

[Georgiana]

Re: What is a "normal" eating and metabolism?

Oops! I think I didn't read your post correctly the first time.

When I wrote "super metabolism" in the post you quoted above, what I had in mind was not a synonym for "good metabolism" or "normal metabolism", but rather one for "extreme metabolism" (I'm not sure everyone understood it this way). Regarding a "normal" metabolism, if I ask grandma what I should eat to lose weight or just to be healthy, she will tell me to some guidelines similar to OWL Rung 3 of Atkins (plus OWL Rung 4 during summer and occasional upper rung foods, like fruits, starchy vegetables or grains). In fact, in my family, grandma was the easiest person to convince about how healthy and efficient Atkins is --- she just gave me a "d'oh" look. With my mom it was relatively easy --- she still doesn't like the fact that I am eating "a lot" (by her standards) of saturated fat, but has nothing against fat in general. But then, whenever I try to explain Atkins to friends my age, what I most often hear are the myths Dr. Atkins discussed in Chapter 9. In my opinion, those myths perfectly describe the way the low-fat, high-carb crowd thinks about healthy eating. But those myths, at least in Romania (which is decades behind the US or Germany, not only economically), you rarely see among people who are about the age of my parents or older (40+). Looking just at this example, I believe somehow, along the way, something happened that changed the way people think about food.

What exactly, I have no idea. I think the question is not why we, in general, believe a normal metabolism should be able to handle a lot of carby/sugary foods, but why we are recommended to give our bodies a bunch of carbs and told that a high-carb diet is THE healthy (or at least healthier) way to eat. Because most people will simply eat what they are told is healthy, either by some health organizations or by friends (who heard the "facts" from a friend's friend's friend) or by the media. As you said, there was the whole "fat will kill you" scare at one point, and to substitute the missing fat, carbohydrate was added (a lot of it, to compensate for the caloric difference). And before the Low Carb Team had time to react, the Sugar Team was already out of the blocks, sprinting to "educate" the public. I think much of the high carb craze that is going on these days is driven by the inertia (and money?) the Sugar Team gained in that first moment rather than by evidence supporting high carb in favor of low carb.

[not2late]

Re: What is a "normal" eating and metabolism?

I understood what you meant by "supermetabolism". But is having one really "normal"?

If the ability to metabolize large amounts of carbohydrates is the "normal" metabolism, then why is there more obesity, diabetes type 2 and other similiar acquired diseases? A "normal" metabolism would be able to handle all that carb. But it seems the majority of people have a metabolism that can't handle it. So are they abnormal or are they really normal, but the dietary guidelines at fault?

[RitaCeleste]

Re: What is a "normal" eating and metabolism?

Some people loose a lot of weight in induction and think Atkins is a super fast way to loose weight. I loose one to two pounds a week on it. But I loose on it. Not so much loosing going on counting fat grams, or living off low cal frozen dinners to control my portions. Once I tried loosing weight eating rice cakes. This convinced me I was abnormal because my calories could be insanely low and no weightloss. But I didn't get fat because I felt required by a food guide to eat extra cerial and fruits. I got fat eating stuff I knew was bad for me. I got fat eating too much food of all kinds. I have learned that eating too many carbs makes me a very hungery person. Eating low carb makes me less hungery. This may not be true for everyone. I eat the foods my family would call healthy on atkins. Mostly meat and veggie, with a good amount of dairy. I most of the foods I skip are ones they would never eat if they were trying to loose weight, anything with sugar and starch. Ofcourse my grandparents are all pushing 90 now and never really updated to unhealthy eating. Well, one watches the fat some and eats eggbeaters. But his wife cooks with butter and eggs. When I get to maintance, I may have a serving of oatmeal. I may have more fruit. But no one in my family looks at my diet meals as unhealthy! And they are living FOREVER so I tend to trust them.

[Georgiana]

Re: What is a "normal" eating and metabolism?

I understood what you meant by "supermetabolism". But is having one really "normal"?

If the ability to metabolize large amounts of carbohydrates is the "normal" metabolism, then why is there more obesity, diabetes type 2 and other similiar acquired diseases? A "normal" metabolism would be able to handle all that carb. But it seems the majority of people have a metabolism that can't handle it. So are they abnormal or are they really normal, but the dietary guidelines at fault?

Although it kind of contradicts the definition of "normal", I think we are all abnormal.

I agree with you that a normal metabolism is not one that is able to handle large amounts of carbohydrate, from all food groups. But even so, are the majority of people really following the dietary guidelines? From what I've seen in the US, they aren't. I am not saying the dietary guidelines are good (or else I would go by them), but I am not convinced current health problems, such as obesity and diabetes, can be blamed exclusively on "dietary guidelines".

[not2late]

Re: What is a "normal" eating and metabolism?

Although it kind of contradicts the definition of "normal", I think we are all abnormal.

I agree with you that a normal metabolism is not one that is able to handle large amounts of carbohydrate, from all food groups. But even so, are the majority of people really following the dietary guidelines? From what I've seen in the US, they aren't. I am not saying the dietary guidelines are good (or else I would go by them), but I am not convinced current health problems, such as obesity and diabetes, can be blamed exclusively on "dietary guidelines".

Unless you prepare your foods yourself, you're exposed to hidden sugars and starches, so you probably are eating well above the guideline amounts. (I was surprized to see starch added to "roasted nuts". I didn't see the point, but someone in marketing research did.)

However, the statistics show that most Americans eat the majority of the meals outside of the home. So you would think the experts would have taken that into consideration when these guidelines were developed: hollandaise sauce you make from real eggs, lemon juice and butter is alot different than hollandaise sauce you make by mixing a packet of powdered stuff with water.

And I agree with you that the dietary guidelines aren't solely to blame. I think lifestyle has alot to do with it too. In the US, being able to cook isn't something well-educated, career-driven people do. So there is an over-reliance on the pre-packaged meals on the go. (see this article for a more eloquent explanation: Reclaiming the Kitchen) So people, even when they try to make good food choices, make bad ones because they can't control the contents of their foods.