Two more ketosis questions

[Slapshot]

1. If ketosis is binary (ie you're either in it or you're not) why are we not supposed to measure first thing in the morning?)

2. Assume someone is not in ketosis. Then assume that person consumes a very high fat low/zero carb meal. Would that ingestion of high fat under those circumstances be measured on ketone sticks? In other words, I know that ketones are a product of burning dietary or stored fat but am unsure whether someone not "in" ketosis can show a false positive by eating an extremely high fat low carb meal...

Thanks for any and all insights...

[happymomto4]

Re: Two more ketosis questions

I am not an expert by any means, but in answer to #1, I do measure every day, it doesn't register very high first thing in the morning because apparently I don't burn much fat as I sleep, but anytime after I've been up for awhile, I check. Seeing the stick change color is a great motivator for me to stay on plan.

About #2, it's my understanding that as long as there are a lot of carbs in your system, that's what your body will use for fuel. The changeover to ketosis happens when all of the carbs have been used. It's hard on your body to continually switch from one energy burning method to the other, so that is one reason to stay on plan.

Probably didn't really answer your questions. I'm sure an expert will pop in to sort this out. By the way, you're getting close to goal. Good work!

[Georgiana]

Re: Two more ketosis questions

1. If ketosis is binary (ie you're either in it or you're not) why are we not supposed to measure first thing in the morning?)

We are all in ketosis when we sleep, regardless of our diet. (But remember that ketosis is dangerous! This is something all students know, which explains the all-nighters. ) This is why measuring first thing in the morning does not give accurate results.

2. Assume someone is not in ketosis. Then assume that person consumes a very high fat low/zero carb meal. Would that ingestion of high fat under those circumstances be measured on ketone sticks? In other words, I know that ketones are a product of burning dietary or stored fat but am unsure whether someone not "in" ketosis can show a false positive by eating an extremely high fat low carb meal...

Under normal circumstances (not starving yourself with 400 calories per day, for example), you will not register ketones on the sticks after one low carb, high fat meal. To produce ketones, there needs to be a lack of available glucose. If your previous "normal" meals were high carb, then there will likely be glycogen stored in the liver, and that glycogen is a source of glucose. It takes a few days to get into ketosis and one does not register ketones on the stix after only one meal.

[atkinsgal08]

Re: Two more ketosis questions

>>But remember that ketosis is dangerous!>>

No, ketosis isn't "dangerous". It's a word for "fat burning".

>>This is why measuring first thing in the morning does not give accurate results.>>

It might for some. As Dr. Atkins wrote, it's best to test at the same time.

However, relying on peeing on a stick for anything other than your own amusement can be futile. It's quite possible for someone to be "in ketosis" and never spill enough ketones to change the color on a stick. And you can get all the way to maintenance without ever worrying about it.

They are fun for practicing hand-eye coordination though!

[Georgiana]

Re: Two more ketosis questions

>>But remember that ketosis is dangerous!>>

No, ketosis isn't "dangerous". It's a word for "fat burning".

That was a joke. Hence the "" smiley.

>>This is why measuring first thing in the morning does not give accurate results.>>

It might for some. As Dr. Atkins wrote, it's best to test at the same time.

In a phone discussion an ADBBer had some years ago with the manufacturer of the ketostix, she was told never to measure first thing in the morning: http://www.atkinsdietbulletinboard.c...-ketostix.html

The reason is the one I stated above. Even on a "normal" diet, everyone will have ketones in their system first thing in the morning and any excess will show in the urine.

[atkinsgal08]

Re: Two more ketosis questions

>> That was a joke. Hence the "" smiley.>>

Sorry, I don't speak "emoticons". I have a tendency to ignore them since they don't have much meaning to me!

Sorry I misunderstood.

This is an article on the sticks that I have found helpful (even though it doesn't address the "when to use them" issue:

The color of the stick shows how concentrated the ketones are in your urine. So, if you drink lots of water, the stick will be light, and if you don't drink, it will be dark.

****

This is not the way ketosis works, but is a myth that continues to be perpetuated because it logically sounds like it should be true. Ketones are only present in the urine if there are excess ketones in the bloodstream, and then these excess ketones "spill over" into the urine. This can happen at various times during the day. Your level of blood ketosis fluctuates all day long depending on what you eat, and there may or may not be an excess amount to spill into the urine at any given time. The amount of ketones is not static in either the bloodstream or the urine, and their presence in the urine is simply excess that spill over once the blood ketosis level reaches a certain level. A dark reading indicates nothing more than the fact that the bloodstream happened to contain a lot of ketones at that moment, and spilled a lot of them into the urine at that moment. This is why even if you read negative at certain times during the day it doesn't mean you are out of ketosis, it just means that your bloodstream isn't making excess ketones at that moment. You don't go in and out of ketosis all day depending on your stick reading, even though you can test positive at one point, and ten minutes later be negative, or vice versa.

It's also important to know this -- even though the stick is dark and reads "large," this does not indicate a "large" amount of ketones for our healthy kidneys to handle. Don't be scare by that "large" label. Don't forget, these sticks were originally made for diabetics, not dieters, and a "large" reading to them indicates something completely different than it does for us dieters. In general, these stix are also meant for screening purposes and not to make any definitive diagnoses. If a stick turns up a positive reading of any kind, it's a signal for a doctor to do further testing.

Drink lots of water, yes, as this diet is a diuretic and you need to replace fluids...but don't do it simply to change your ketostix color from dark purple.

--Nancy Eaton (who formerly was a clinical consultant for Ames, which is now Bayer, who makes Ketostix and many other kinds of diagnostic test strips and equipment)

[SunnySmile501]

Re: Two more ketosis questions

1. Since you asked for any and all insight, remember that the Ketostix are for medical purposes associated with diabetes, not to keep track of ketosis while dieting. They are a poor judge of the state of ketosis/lipolysis when doing low carb. Too many variables to be accurate, such as when you last ate, fluid intake, exercise, alcohol consumption, dietary fat intake, etc.

2. Yes, the stix could register dietary fat if the carbs are low enough. It wouldn't actually be a false positive in the same manner as drinking alcohol, which actually registers on the stix as free ketones. With the high fat meal, you would actually be in ketosis and burning some dietary fat as well as burning some body fat for energy.

[Pretty Polly]

Re: Two more ketosis questions

Geee atkinsgal08 what is up with you? You have a major chip on your shoulder...and hope that chip is Atkins legal

Chill out and enjoy this forum for what its suppose to be...a friendly and informative place to hang out.

Are you eating you veggies? That might help with the snappiness

[Georgiana]

Re: Two more ketosis questions

As far as I am concerned, J.'s reply to my post was nothing else than a misunderstanding and we clarified it quickly. I didn't find her post offending or unfriendly.

[Slapshot]

Re: Two more ketosis questions

Thanks for all of the responsive info everyone. I appreciate all of the perspective of the pros and cons of the sticks. I don't use them all the time - just to see if I am in ketosis (after being out of it). I recognize they're not the best tool for it but thirst, bad breath etc are useless indicators for me. However, lack of hunger is the most telling sign for me.

[phil h]

Re: Two more ketosis questions

What many folks don't understand and I didn't until I experienced it, is if you are in ketosis for an extended periord of time you will no longer show ketones in your urine.I have been on extended induction for around 7 1/2 months.The last 5 months or so I have always tested negative.This is on a diet of 20 or less gms of carbs a day (usually considerably less) and zero cheats..This indicates ketone adaption where the body uses fat as pricipal fuel and no ketones are spilled over into urine.I would assume if I gorged myself with huge amounts of fat, I would spill some over but hunger is satisfied well before I eat that much.If I hadn't been explained to prior to that, I would have assumed I was eating too many carbs.Thus checking ketone strips is useless for me.The proof in the pudding is steadily losing weight, although that has leveled off some but I continue to lose fat deposits.Love handles have been long gone.My waist is getting smaller and I would assume viseral fat loss is the reason why.As the fat has eroded, hidden muscles are becoming visible and defined such as abs.Very similar to my cats who eat meat and no carbs, sleep all day but are lean and muscular.I have lost weight many times before but never was able to lose those stubborn love handles and fat depsits under my scapula and just below my axilla.Downside is I have no butt.I need a smaller commode.