Difference between 2002 DANDR and Atkins.com Induction

[Reborn_Warrior]

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[Sawgford]

Re: Difference between 2002 DANDR and Atkins.com Induction

I'm a total newbie and I'm really interested in the answer to your question b.c I have never been able to fit more than a certain amount of carbs in just 3 cups. Then I read that most of your 20 grams ( for induction) carbs need to come from veggies, and I upped my veggie intake to fulfill the carbs allotted, and I'm pretty sure its more than 3 cups... anyways, yeah good question..looking forward to reading the answer.

[liv]

Re: Difference between 2002 DANDR and Atkins.com Induction

So how is your losing going? I think for most dieters it helps to embrace and stick to a plan. This is what we are doing here. If you do not like it find another one.
The mission of this board is 2002 atkins diet revolution. Those of us who have stuck to it have lost weight and we work that system. There are other things out there in cyber world if you want one of those grab them. But take care of your health.

[Brook]

Re: Difference between 2002 DANDR and Atkins.com Induction



You are right in several of the things you've said.

The ratios are *not* listed in the book - but two things. First of all, if you run the menus through Fitday, you'll find that's where the ratios land. Secondly, the ratios came directly from the Atkins Center- back in the day when Dr. Atkins was running things. Several of us, myself included, spoke with counselors there to clarify contradictions we found and clear up . They are the ones who gave us those ratios.

As for the 3 cups - that's something else I discussed with the Atkins Center. The gist of it is this: Dr. Atkins wanted his way of eating to be easily followed by *everyone*. He recognized that the majority of people were looking for a plan that was monkey-proof and didn't require a lot of thinking/measuring/etc. He chose "cups" of veggies because he knew everyone had a measuring cup in their kitchen, but not everyone had a food scale, and even if they did they'd avoid using it because it was work or felt like punishment or micromanagement of something they felt should be simple. . I was told 7 years ago that using a food scale was JUST FINE!

Let's face it. There can be DRASTIC differences in what people stuff in a measuring cup. If you grab your cup and I grab mine, and we both fill it up with ..let's say..onion....the amount can vary HUGELY. . Did you slice your onion? Did I dice mine? - But the truth is that 2oz of onion is 2oz of onion is 2oz of onion. I have found over the years that I can eat a *lot* more veggies and have my carb counts be ON POINT with a scale, and it's what I've always done. It just makes sense.

Bottom line? The cups rule was put in there to do two things: Make it more accessible/doable to everyone, and when followed that way, will all but guarantee you stay in the 12-15 range (assuming you don't dice!).

As for the Fat Fast- It absolutely has it's time and place. My own opinion as to why it's so fiercely dissuaded is because, like induction, people want to use for what it was NOT intended for. A quick fix. I do not believe Dr. Atkins would have taken it out of the book, but then, we'll never know. . Those of us that have been doing this for years have seen more people abuse induction and the fat fast than we could even begin to count, and they're usually the same people that about how Atkins doesn't work for them- yet...they're the same people who didn't WORK Atkins. Go figure.

And that is my .

[Reborn_Warrior]

Re: Difference between 2002 DANDR and Atkins.com Induction

So how is your losing going? I think for most dieters it helps to embrace and stick to a plan. This is what we are doing here. If you do not like it find another one.
The mission of this board is 2002 atkins diet revolution. Those of us who have stuck to it have lost weight and we work that system. There are other things out there in cyber world if you want one of those grab them. But take care of your health.

I have lost 66lbs since August.

At first, I did the three cups thing. But I really wasn't getting the right amount of carbs and I never felt right about it. It didn't seem that healthy, especially for someone at my weight who needed to be on induction for awhile. Now I do. I am getting more fiber and I feel better.

I am doing atkins and it is working. What better way to take care of your health. I follow what it says in Atkins.com, which is almost the same as in the book. I am not just following a plan in cyberspace somewhere, I am following the diet as perscribed in the offical Atkins website (Atkins.com.) The differences are so small, agruing over them seems such a waste of time. So I don't use three cups. No big deal. I am still getting the same amount of net carbs than someone using them does.

[Brook]

Re: Difference between 2002 DANDR and Atkins.com Induction

Just wanted to add that I have 7 1/2 years of Atkins under my belt - and it was about 3 months in that I the Atkins Center. I just realized my "start date" on my post was off by almost 3 years (long story, but I'm one of the original ADBBers), and didn't want there to be confusion because of it.

I wish you continued success!

[Sawgford]

Re: Difference between 2002 DANDR and Atkins.com Induction

Thanks for your answer Brook, really helpful.

[Georgiana]

Re: Difference between 2002 DANDR and Atkins.com Induction

I don’t understand the big deal about Atkins.com vs. 2002 DANDR Induction.

Dr. Atkins wrote that book more than seven years ago, three years after he updated his last book about this WOE. Since he is dead will the 2002 DANDR be the last word on everything?

I understand that Atkins.com has gone commercial. I understand that they push their products (So to a point did Dr. Atkins BTW). However, it looks like they have backed down a little on that. It is not stated that you must use the frankenfoods.

My biggest thing is about the three cups of veggies for induction. I said to my wife that according to the 2002 DANDR I need to eat at the max three cups of veggies for a total of 12-15 net carbs, vs. Atkins.com no cup limit for a total of 12-15 net carbs. She gave me a look and said, “What’s the difference. That’s a big deal to somebody? In the end are you not still getting the same amount of carbs?”

I looked at my little Dr. Atkins carb gram counter book, and you have to be quite creative to get 12-15 net carbs from three cups of induction veggies. I like to vary my veggies and not eat the same thing everyday. I would like to know how many people are REALLY getting 12-15 net carbs from three cups.

I had a discussion last week on here about the differences between the Atkins.com induction menu and the 2002 DANDR induction menu. Expect for the fact that the Atkins.com allows olives and avocados (which I don’t like) and which excludes a handful of veggies listed in 2002 DANDR (most of which I have never heard of and after researching them would never eat), there is no difference.

Some of the people on here post very fiercely how you MUST follow the three cup rule in the book. Then I see these same people talk about using % ratios of fat/proteins/carbs for induction. Were does it say that in the book? Nowhere! So one minute someone is saying you are not doing Atkins correctly if you don’t use the three cup method, then they are telling to use ratios! According to their logic, you would not be doing the Atkins diet correctly by using ratios.

Know I have heard on here that Dr. Atkins used the three cup method to make it simpler to do induction. So why would the same people who use that argument tell you to use things like Fitday, limit your calories, and use ratios? That is what Dr. Atkins was totally against. I know Dr. Atkins said calories count, but he did say not to count your calories for induction. The only time you were ever suppose to that was when you do the Fat Fast. Talking about the Fat Fast, I see people are against that in here. I hear people say they know that Dr. Atkins would have changed that if he were alive today. Really? Maybe or maybe not. If people think that he would have changed that, why would people think he would not have changed the three cup rule?

Science changes constantly. I think Dr. Atkins would not have minded his diet modified if new science came out about Atkins.

Let’s be honest and please answer me this. If you get 12-15 net carbs from veggies by using three cups, or you get 12-15 net carbs from using 12-15 carbs with as many cups as you want, what is the difference? Does it really matter?

I'm glad your Induction is going fine, Reborn Warrior.

Here are some posts/threads on exactly this topic that everyone might want to read, because there is good information there.

http://www.atkinsdietbulletinboard.com/forums/main-atkins-diet-forum/56707-why-do-people-induction-use-things-like-fitday-count.html

And this is what a member wrote:

I think the easiest thing is to just do what Dr. Atkins says. All these ratios, using Fitday or other sites like it are not necessary during induction. And it is nowhere in The Book. Using things like what ratio of fat and carbs to eat is just making the diet more complicated than it has do be, and is not doing the Atkins Induction phase correctly.

Eat what is on the food list, no more than four carbs a day from cheese, keep it under 20 carbs for all foods combined, exercise, take your vitamins and eat until you are satisfied. Dr. Atkins says not to worry about all the fat you will be consuming when you start the diet. I think he understood people would be concerned about eating all that fat during Induction, that why he specifically states in the book not to worry about it when you first start.

There is no need to make Atkins complicated. It is one of the simplest ways of eating there is. If you are concerned about the fat, get through Induction and move on to the other steps were you are eating more veggies and eventually fruits and nuts.

See replies to this post here: http://www.atkinsdietbulletinboard.com/forums/main-atkins-diet-forum/77737-has-anyone-tried-atkins-alli-orlistat-together-4.html

And:

IMHO, if it is not in the book don't do it. Dr. Atkins says nothing about %'s for induction. So in other words, if you are using ratios, counting calories, worried about how much fat you are eating during induction, then you are not doing Atkins correctly.

If you start adding things like carb/protein/fat ratios, which are not part of the Atkins Induction phase, what is wrong then with doing what they say on Atkins.com? They say you may eat things like Atkins low-carb bread or bars on induction. I believe if you are following the 2002 DANDR then do what it says and don't deviate from it.

This is a simple WOE, no reason to make it complicated.

And in the same thread:

Not to be argumentative, but using ratios is not following anything that Dr. Atkins wrote in any of his books in regards to induction.

If the 2002 DANDR is suppose to be the ‘bible’, then we should follow it. I think when someone is new and they start Atkins and there are told to read ‘The Book’, throwing out Fitday, ratios and the like is just more confusing.

If it is not in the book than you are not doing Induction correctly. Dr. Atkins says exactly what to do. As long as you eat the foods he has listed, keep it under 20 carbs, exercise, and don’t stuff yourself you should be fine. Once you start adding things that are not in the book (like ratios), than you is no longer doing what Dr. Atkins said to do during Induction.

Dr. Atkins designed Induction to be simple. He wanted people to lose pounds without getting frustrated about counting other things besides carbs. I would imagine he designed it similar to what Weight Watchers did with points because that was easy and effective for many people. Once you start worrying about all your ratios at the BEGINNING of Atkins, you are taking that simplicity and throwing it out the window. I see some posters on here thinking they are doing Induction wrong because their not using ratios. That is what Dr. Atkins wanted to avoid.

If someone is going to do Atkins they should pick one of his programs and do it. If they want to do the 1972 version do that. If they want to do the 2002 version or what the Atkins people put out follow that. But mixing them up and adding things that are not part of Induction, like ratios, is not doing Atkins correctly.

Okay, off my soapbox now and off to have some pork chops!

See replies here: http://www.atkinsdietbulletinboard.com/forums/main-atkins-diet-forum/77810-percentages.html

[Georgiana]

Re: Difference between 2002 DANDR and Atkins.com Induction

In one of my replies in the "Percentages" thread I wrote that the protein percentages were mentioned in another book.

This is from Atkins Diabetes Revolution, Chapter 13:

In the end, the amount of protein you eat when you follow the ABSCP may not be that much higher than the amount you ate before you started the program. When the dietary intake of individuals following the ANA has been studied, generally 30 to 35 percent of their calorie intake is protein.

[dewolfe]

Re: Difference between 2002 DANDR and Atkins.com Induction

Thank you Thank you Thank you!!!!!!!!!!!! I have wondered these SAME question but never took the time to write it down!!!!!!!!!!!!! Thank you!!! I'm glad to see all the good answers once and for all

[sallyseachange]

Re: Difference between 2002 DANDR and Atkins.com Induction

I had a discussion last week on here about the differences between the Atkins.com induction menu and the 2002 DANDR induction menu. Expect for the fact that the Atkins.com allows olives and avocados (which I don’t like) and which excludes a handful of veggies listed in 2002 DANDR (most of which I have never heard of and after researching them would never eat), there is no difference.

Just a small point, but as far as I'm aware (correct me if I'm wrong someone) olives and avocados are allowed in the 2002 DANDR... special category foods.

I am with those who think the ratios just complicate matters. It might be true that the DANDR menus, when put through Fitday, come out at those ratios, but they are very American style menus.

If you do Atkins absolutely correctly using some foreign cuisines (in my case Italian) the ratios can turn out slightly differently.

Italian menus tend to be higher in fat (wonderful extra virgin olive oil usually!!). I lost weight just fine cooking Italian style, and followed the instructions in the book.

It might be useful to know about these ratios as a vague guideline, but I don't think people should get too stressed about them, unless they are consistently way, way out.

Thanks Brook for a clear post!

[Georgiana]

Re: Difference between 2002 DANDR and Atkins.com Induction

Just a small point, but as far as I'm aware (correct me if I'm wrong someone) olives and avocados are allowed in the 2002 DANDR... special category foods.

You're right, Sally. The difference is that, as you said, DANDR allows them as Special Category foods, while at Atkins.com they are listed as vegetables (both are fruits).

[Elizellen]

Re: Difference between 2002 DANDR and Atkins.com Induction

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I looked at my little Dr. Atkins carb gram counter book, and you have to be quite creative to get 12-15 net carbs from three cups of induction veggies. I like to vary my veggies and not eat the same thing everyday. I would like to know how many people are REALLY getting 12-15 net carbs from three cups.

Unfortunately RW you just missed our latest vegetable challenge where members tried to do just that. Many of them succeeded too
The thread for that challenge is linked in my signature if anyone is interested in learning how to get more net carbs from their 3 cups

[Brook]

Re: Difference between 2002 DANDR and Atkins.com Induction

I am with those who think the ratios just complicate matters. It might be true that the DANDR menus, when put through Fitday, come out at those ratios, but they are very American style menus.


It might be useful to know about these ratios as a vague guideline, but I don't think people should get too stressed about them, unless they are consistently way, way out.

[GRAPES]

Re: Difference between 2002 DANDR and Atkins.com Induction

Brook...I just loved your answer (both the tone and the information) and wanted to take the time to say so...