Feeling funny and burning...

[Georgiana]

Re: Feeling funny and burning...

"The more ketones you excrete, and therefore the greater degree of ketosis you are in, the darker the colour."

There is a difference between ketonuria (ketones in urine) and ketonemia (ketones in the blood). It is ketonemia that is a secondary process of lipolysis... while ketonuria might be a secondary process of ketonemia. One can experience ketonemia without ketonuria... but ketonuria without ketonemia is not possible.

When Dr. Atkins explanained ketosis in DANDR, the explanation per se was consistent with ketonemia. However, as you read through the book, the two terms -- ketonemia and ketonuria -- are sometimes interchanged.

In the sentence you quoted above, by "ketosis" Dr. Atkins meant ketonuria. Ketostix measure the concentration of ketone bodies (more precisely, acetoacetate) in urine. Therefore, the darker the color, the higher the concentration of ketone bodies. So one could say that the darker the color of the stix, the higher the "degree" of ketonuria.

However, the color on the Ketostix is not proportional to the number of ketone bodies. On one hand because the body makes three ketone bodies -- beta-hydroxybutyrate, acetoacetate and acetone -- and Ketostix only measure the excess of one of them, acetoacetate. On the other hand because concentration is number/quantity per volume. Let's say you have 1000 excess ketones to pee, all acetoacetate. If you pee them in 1 L of urine, the concentration will be higher than if you pee them in 1.5 L.

As for the color on the Ketostix and weight loss... When fatty acids undergo beta-oxidation, they are broken down into two-carbon molecules called acetyl-CoA. For acetyl-CoA to proceed normally through the TCA cycle, oxaloacetate is required. However, when the intake of carbohydrates is low, oxaloacetate is shunted away from the TCA cycle and its carbon skeleton is used instead in gluconeogenesis. Without oxaloacetate, the liver has to find a different way to deal with the acetyl-CoA resulting from fatty acids oxidation, which is why it produces ketone bodies.

Beta-hydroxybutyrate and acetoacetate are the two ketones used for energy, while acetone is only a waste product of fat metabolism. In the body, acetoacetate can be converted to beta-hydroxybutyrate and acetone. Those cells that have mitochondria will take acetoacetate and beta-hydroxybutyrate and convert them back into acetyl-CoA, which then is pumped back into the TCA cycle. Excess acetoacetate is excreted.

Therefore, the concentration of ketone bodies in the blood (that is, the "degree" of ketonemia) is not proportional to the concentration of acetoacetate in the urine (that is, the "degree" of ketonuria). And it is the concentration of ketone bodies in the blood (ketonemia) that is a direct consequence of fat burning (lipolysis).

Furthermore, the fat "burned" in lipolysis can be either dietary fat or body fat. This is the reason why some people can be in ketosis without losing weight and inches. In an interview she gave a few years ago, Jackie Eberstein was telling the story of a patient she had at the Atkins Center who was gaining weight even though she was in ketosis (ketonuria). When asked about her menu, this lady told Jackie that every night after dinner she ate a whole stick of butter sprinkled with cinnamon. No surprise she was gaining weight!

[Rayjax]

Re: Feeling funny and burning...

I love you Georgiana, you're such a no-nonsense shoot straight type of person. I love it.

[jezzagirl19]

Re: Feeling funny and burning...

Thanks Georgiana, that was great! I appreciate the time you take to help me along the track So much easier to understand it all when it is explained in depth. I did read that the ketostix do not work for everyone but for me they are a psychological help. When I see with my own eyes I am in ketosis, I know Im on the right track and have the motivation to stick to it!

Thanks everyone for your replies! Im happy to know Im not the only one experiencing the night burns, lol. I do believe its due to the fat (burning) so Im happy but I also like my sleep,which is hard to get when my body temperature is so high! hehe

End of day 10 and Im feeling good. Am curious to see how my day 14 weigh in goes.
Im not expecting much of a loss after my huge result the first week but I will keep you posted

I only knew about ketones in the breath and urine, its interesting to hear about them in the blood and how it all works together.

[Georgiana]

Re: Feeling funny and burning...

I pee on the ketostix first thing in the morning

If you choose to use Ketostix, you might want to read this: http://www.atkinsdietbulletinboard.c...-ketostix.html

for me they are a psychological help

If using Ketostix helps you psychologically, there's nothing "wrong" with using them. However, you need to understand how they work, so they you don't put much emphasis on the color they show or become too dependent on them.

And don't forget about the scale, the tape measure, the way you feel, the reduced appetite, the delicious foods you eat... These should all provide psychological help.

have the motivation to stick to it!

As I said, don't become dependent on Ketostix. Since Ketostix are not at all a reliable indicator of progress on Atkins, it would be unfortunate to lose your "motivation" to follow this way of eating just because the Ketostix stop changing color.

When I see with my own eyes I am in ketosis, I know Im on the right track

To reiterate what J. wrote... Being in ketosis according to the color of the Ketostix does not tell you that you are following Atkins correctly and it is not a guarantee that you are losing weight. There are many ways to get into ketosis without being on Atkins. For example, you could starve yourself... or eat no vegetables.

So instead of relying on Ketostix to tell you that you are "on the right track", it is wiser to focus on facts: eating enough vegetables, eating whole foods, eating healthy fats, drinking enough water, exercising, taking your supplements, etc. If you are familiar with the plan (and I see you have the book), then you should know if you are doing things correctly regardless of the color on the stix.