Psyllium

[T.M.]

I looked for another thread to post this, but the ones I wanted to add to were locked.

I am 6' 6" tall and weigh 258 lbs. (I just entered the world of the overweight from the universe of the obese.) I am 84 days into extended induction and have lost 42 lbs.

For the past several weeks I have been eating about 2400 calories per day, of which 60 to 70% are fat, 3 to 5% carb, and the rest protein.

For supplements I take a huge multivitamin, extra vitamin D, C, calcium, potassium (NoSalt) and fish oil.

The reason I'm posting is because I have been experiencing rapid weight loss (about a pound a day) over the past few days and I'm trying to figure out why. Consuming bulk psyllium husk seems to be the only change I've made during that period of time, so I'm strongly suspecting that it is the culprit, but I'm not really sure about how to deal with it - short of not taking it, that is.

I have tried psyllium several times during my diet. I have never gotten good results with it (severe bloating, feeling of unwellness and not much affect on regularity) until a few days ago when I was constipated and desperately needed to do something.

I'm not a fan of chemical laxatives, nor mineral oil, so I decided to try psyllium one last time, but this time I tried something different. I added one level tablespoon (5 g) to about 800 ml (27 fluid ounces) of very warm (almost hot) water and let that sit for about 20 minutes while stirring it every few minutes. As far as I can tell, after that period of time, the psyllium has absorbed its full capacity of water. Before stirring for the last time, the predominant portion of psyllium resides in a bit less than a third of the upper part of the glass. Stirring distributes the psyllium evenly throughout the glass. Then I drink the noticeably-thickened mixture over a period of about a half hour, with stirring before each imbibe.

I take a tablespoon about a half hour before breakfast - (usually a 3-egg, 50-gr cheddar-cheese omlet with about 50 grams of low-carb salami thrown in for good measure, totalling about 600 cal). I take another tablespoon about three hours after supper.

I realize for the first time that a tablespoon of Psyllium is very powerful stuff that should be treated with great caution. Its ability to absorb water is far greater than I had previously imagined and I think that allowing the stuff into the body without first letting it absorb water might very well be more than counterproductive.

That being said, however, as I've already said, I'm losing weight like crazy and the only change I've made is taking psyllium as above. I'm wondering if this method acutally causes the nutrients in the food to be blocked in the stomach or intestines (from being utilized by my body).

The problem is that I am now more "regular" than I have ever been during the entire 84-day course of the diet. I don't want to lose that, yet I think that I might have to stop, or reduce, the amount of psyllium I'm taking.

I'm considering increasing the number of calories I'm eating in an effort to stabilize my weight loss, but I thought I'd post here first in order to find out if anyone else has has a similar experience when they tried psyllium.

Thanks.

(BTW, IMO, the above method makes taking psyllium almost pleasant. If one added some artificial sweetener and flavoring, or maybe a bit of heavy cream, to it, one might have a pleasant drink.)

[tfek70]

Re: Psyllium

You are introducing psyllium husk at the maximum recommended dosage to your body. Everything I have read about it says that you should start at a lower than maximum dosage or it will wreak havoc on your bowels. How was your fiber intake prior to psyllium? I know that when I start adding high fiber things into my diet (I use flax meal in a lot of my recipes for the added fiber and omega 3 fats) my digestive system notices. Just my $0.02. Just to be on the safe side, I would drink some extra water because the psyllium is probably leaching it from your body.

[T.M.]

Re: Psyllium

You are introducing psyllium husk at the maximum recommended dosage to your body. Everything I have read about it says that you should start at a lower than maximum dosage or it will wreak havoc on your bowels. How was your fiber intake prior to psyllium? I know that when I start adding high fiber things into my diet (I use flax meal in a lot of my recipes for the added fiber and omega 3 fats) my digestive system notices. Just my $0.02. Just to be on the safe side, I would drink some extra water because the psyllium is probably leaching it from your body.

Thanks.

Last first. I am drinking around two gallons (256 ounces) of water a day. That should do it, don't you think? My only concern about water is that I'm drinking too much of it!

Being on extended induction, my fiber intake has been poor. That's why I've attempted to take psyllium several times.

I agree that the dosage may be a bit high, but I'm a large, heavy man and I figured that I should probably be taking more than my 5'4", 130-lb wife. But maybe I'm wrong on that. I'm open to any suggests.

Thanks for the advice.

[tfek70]

Re: Psyllium

Kudos on the water, that'll do it. I was concerned about dehydration, but not so much anymore. I wish I was closer to your height too. Your fiber intake shouldn't be low if you are getting your carbs through veggies like you are supposed to. I hate veggies, so I'm being hypocritical here. I have had to be creative to get my fiber, hence the flax meal. I also have started eating jicama root. Other than that, I only eat cauliflower and cucumbers as veggies. Good luck on your journey, you seem to be doing well.

T. J.

[T.M.]

Re: Psyllium

Kudos on the water, that'll do it. I was concerned about dehydration, but not so much anymore. I wish I was closer to your height too. Your fiber intake shouldn't be low if you are getting your carbs through veggies like you are supposed to. I hate veggies, so I'm being hypocritical here. I have had to be creative to get my fiber, hence the flax meal. I also have started eating jicama root. Other than that, I only eat cauliflower and cucumbers as veggies. Good luck on your journey, you seem to be doing well.

T. J.

Thanks.

While on induction, as I am, the amount of fiber that one can possibly obtain from veggies is still not much, and when you're as big as I am (and would like to take that big daily dump), the amount of fiber must somehow be supplemented.

I'm now leaning toward increasing calories to see their effect first, before lowering the dose of psyllium. If that does not work, then I guess I'll have to drop psyllium and maybe leave induction in order to up the fiber.

[meat]

Re: Psyllium

i know this is an old thread i'm bumping, but i'm wondering why some people think that losing weight "too fast" is bad for you?

what is the evidence for this?

people on the biggest loser lose 2lbs a day several months into their diet, people who get gastric bypass lose a pound a day or more for up to 6 or 9 months... i'm not aware of any evidence or plausible reason why fast weight loss is bad or dangerous.

[stephbob]

Re: Psyllium

In my opinion, and from what I've read about rapid weight loss, we are recommended to lose weight at a slower rate, because while you can lose much more than 2 lbs a week, it tends to be that the faster you lose, the easier it is to regain the weight. 2 lbs a week is a reasonable amount given how many calories a person needs to consume in order to function, but obviously if you're larger to begin with, then you are much more likely to lose at a faster rate.

Also, rapid weight loss can be an indication of a loss of water weight, rather than actual fat. I think that would be the concern of many people if you're taking a laxative and losing at such a speed (aside from the damage it could cause to your body).

Many people do lose 1-2 lbs a day, but this is only for a short amount of time. At the start of my diet, at almost 180 lbs, I was losing 1 lb a day, but it didn't last longer than 7-10 days, and I'd imagine that a lot of that was water weight. To me, it seems almost impossible that a person could dispose of 1-2 lbs of fat overnight. I mean, think about it realistically, how could that happen?! And certainly not continue for a prolonged period of time.

[meat]

Re: Psyllium

Hey steph, thanks for responding

Opinions aren't bad but I'm really looking for evidence.. we can all makeup opinions and just state our totally random perceptions on any topic, but it doesn't mean much.

For instance, look at peoples descriptions of and perceptions of atkins?

How often are things said like "It just can't be safe, how is that possible?"

Losing 1lb of fat per day is very obtainable for many people... the biggest loser is a good example of this. You have guys who just lost 125lbs who lose 35lbs in their 4th month.

The same thing happens in surgeries or just some people who are a combination of lucky and work real hard on your average diet.

One of the big advantages of a ketogenic diet is fast weight loss, if done strictly losing 20 to 30 pounds per month several months in isn't that uncommon.

The 'recommendations' to lose weight slowly seem as baseless to me as the recommendations that "fat makes you fat", "fat causes heart disease", "eat high carbohydrate and low fat to lose weight", etc.

[Georgiana]

Re: Psyllium

i know this is an old thread i'm bumping, but i'm wondering why some people think that losing weight "too fast" is bad for you?

From an old Atkins.com FAQ:

"Is it dangerous to lose weight very quickly?

When you start the Induction phase of Atkins, you may experience rapid weight loss for the first time in your life. Don't worry. What makes the initial drop dramatic is that you lose a good bit of water weight in the first week. That's because eating fewer grams of carbohydrate results in fewer spikes in blood sugar, resulting in less insulin output. Insulin makes the body retain sodium, which, as you probably know, makes your body retain water. When you’re not producing as much insulin, this cycle slows and the effect is like taking a diuretic. After four days or so, however, you will also begin to lose body fat. Young men and people who have a lot of weight to lose are more likely to lose weight more rapidly at the start of the Atkins program.


Losing weight too fast is an issue only if:


1). You’re not eating enough, which could make you lose lean muscle mass. To lose only body fat, be sure to eat regular meals and take in adequate calories. If you aren’t hungry at meal times, have a small snack with your supplements. Also, drink at least 64 ounces of water every day.


2). You feel sick, weak, dizzy or fatigued. If you lose too fast, especially at the beginning of the program, you may be experiencing an extreme diuretic effect. This could deplete you of water and also some electrolytes, which contain sodium, potassium, calcium and magnesium. Signs of electrolyte depletion are muscle cramps and heaviness in your legs when climbing steps. You may need to add more vegetables to your meals to slow down weight loss and add a mineral supplement to replace lost minerals.


But if you feel well and aren’t starving yourself, you’re probably not losing too quickly. If you have just a few pounds to lose, you might slow the pace so that you can continue to learn good eating habits before progressing through the phases to Lifetime Maintenance. Simply move to Ongoing Weight Loss and increase your daily intake of carbohydrates by 5 grams. If you are within five to 10 pounds of your target weight, move into the Pre-Maintenance phase and increase your intake gradually, in 10-gram increments, until weight loss slows to about a pound or two a month. However, if you still have a lot to lose and you feel full of energy, simply feel good that you are dropping pounds easily."

people on the biggest loser lose 2lbs a day several months into their diet, people who get gastric bypass lose a pound a day or more for up to 6 or 9 months

That's done under medical supervision.

[meat]

Re: Psyllium

Sounds like reasonable advice.

The medical supervision isn't very supervised... they check in once a month or less type of thing.

Even on liquid diets you only check in every month or 6 weeks.

[stephbob]

Re: Psyllium

If you're looking for evidence, you are probably better off speaking to a dr. This is the internet, and in all fairness, we could pull "evidence" from any website, but what's to say it's any more than someone's opinion? Even atkins.com doesn't provide any evidence - who wrote that? How do you know it's true?

Make an appointment with your doctor or another medical professional if you need evidence.

[meat]

Re: Psyllium

If you're looking for evidence, you are probably better off speaking to a dr. This is the internet, and in all fairness, we could pull "evidence" from any website, but what's to say it's any more than someone's opinion? Even atkins.com doesn't provide any evidence - who wrote that? How do you know it's true?

Make an appointment with your doctor or another medical professional if you need evidence.

lol... it's called pubmed. medline... etc. medical journals, something like that.

a physician is going to have no idea what the evidence is, that's a product of clinical research generally speaking.

the internet is a tremendous resource for evidence proliferation, the abstract of most studies are put online and in some cases the full text is available for free.

One way I know some things on atkins.com are true is because there's been around 17 well done studies of ketogenic diets at this point. There's also a long clinical history of ketogenic diets in both children (epilepsy) and adults.

That being said we all know that are also things on atkins.com right now which are garbage... candybars and milkshakes up the wazoo.

[not2late]

Re: Psyllium

lol... it's called pubmed. medline... etc. medical journals, something like that.

a physician is going to have no idea what the evidence is, that's a product of clinical research generally speaking.

the internet is a tremendous resource for evidence proliferation, the abstract of most studies are put online and in some cases the full text is available for free.

One way I know some things on atkins.com are true is because there's been around 17 well done studies of ketogenic diets at this point. There's also a long clinical history of ketogenic diets in both children (epilepsy) and adults.

That being said we all know that are also things on atkins.com right now which are garbage... candybars and milkshakes up the wazoo.

Whether or not a data and conclusions from a scientific study are valid or invalid is determined by examining the methodology, the data and the analysis of that data. Therefore, it is a fallacy to accept everything that is published in medical/scientific journals without doing that---because ALOT of garbage studies manage to find their way into those journals. Hence we had junk like the Seven Countries Study being used as the basis for the dietary guidelines. Not to mention the garbage studies that resulted in the Vioxx scandal, the Vytorin scandal and so forth. These wonky studies have led some to look upon any study done in the last 20-30 years akin to the Major League Baseball steriod era---studies have been so pumped and data so skewed that it is almost impossible to believe the validity of any study.

So keep that in mind when reading these studies.

[meat]

Re: Psyllium

Whether or not a data and conclusions from a scientific study are valid or in
valid is determined by examining the methodology, the data and the analysis of that data. Therefore, it is a fallacy to accept everything that is published in medical/scientific journals without doing that---because ALOT of garbage studies manage to find their way into those journals.

Hence we had junk like the Seven Countries Study being used as the basis for the dietary guidelines.

correct.

but it's a place to start... it's a lot more meaningful than making up a reason for something, which in it's best form is just called a hypothesis.

there are many high quality and relevant studies done on every topic under the sun everyday.

if your particular bias is to believe in atkins, remember that there's been several major studies validating it over the last 7 years, including one funded by the american heart association who had only done so for the purpose of ridiculing it when they "knew" it must be wrong.

in other words, science works, but no human system will always be perfect.

there's no reason to encourage taking a nihilistic view of it, especially if, being biased towards atkins, and seeing how completely and totally anti-atkins the establishment was and still is, it was ultimately vindicated by science done by that same establishment who loathed/loathes it.

These wonky studies have led some to look upon any study done in the last 20-30 years akin to the Major League Baseball steriod era---studies have been so pumped and data so skewed that it is almost impossible to believe the validity of any study.

totally untrue.

two things happen:

1) the media is UNFORTUNATELY almost always the conduit of science to the public and for a lot of complex social reasons they're predisposed to sensationalizing the low-fat high-carb cholesterol-heart-disease anti-atkins storyline, so what gets reported, and the way its reported, is often really distorted.

but whats even more important is what they ignore... good post on this topic i read yesterday randomly:

Meat and mortality | The Blog of Michael R. Eades, M.D.

2) the other thing that can happen is authors put something in the 'abstract' that really doesn't jibe with the data for a variety of complex social reasons.
for instance in the cochrane meta-analysis on saturated fat they put in the abstract "saturated fat may cause heart disease" but in the public statements about the study they said something to the effect of "it was pretty disappointing we didn't find any real correlation".

So in other words, they could have put in the abstract "saturated fat may cause ESP" and it probably would have been just as relevant, but it was too complicated of a social proposition for them to say "saturated fat does not cause heart disease" or "there is no evidence that saturated fat causes heart disease" at the time.

There can be just as many politics involved in the dissemination of the result of the scientific process as there are in any corporate office or any other type of organization of people working together, but that doesn't really overshadow the validity of the work, you just have to dig a bit harder to try and understand what to take away from it.

[T.M.]

Re: Psyllium

So, what do doctors know and advise?

To lose weight, the vast majority of doctors still advise a low-fat, restricted-calorie diet.

Nuff said.

This is precisely why people who have gotten obese following their advice seek alternative sources of information.