Frustrated Diabetic

[forbey]

Re: Frustrated Diabetic

WHEW! A nice 20-minute powerwalk to clear the mind and burn some frustration.

Poobears,

Thanks for chiming in. Please let me try and address your comments within your 's so as to address each one fully.

I think the point that is trying to be made is the sticks are wildly inaccurate. You don't even have to be on a diet to spill keytones into your system. Most people would be showing keytones in the mornings since they haven't eaten since dinner the night before but that doesn't mean their body is burning fat and losing weight. Also if you don't drink enough water you will register on the sticks but again it doesn't mean you will lose weight.

The sticks are what is called a qualitative monitoring device. They test for the presence of ketones in urine. They do not provide an analytical quantitative readout. I knew that when I started using them.


I'm not running my life by the sticks, I am using them as a tool to go with the rest of the plan. I bought the sticks new 3 weeks ago, one week after starting. They have an expiration date of 2011/05/25. They remain in the container they came in, sealed and the dessicant remains inside. I do realise that the test strips are a snap shot in time, although I tend to be a tad obscessive and don't just test in the morning. I test at least 3 to 4 times a day just like I test my blood suger.


You can be dropping pounds like crazy and not change color on the sticks because you have a lot of water in your urine etc. If they are kept in too humid or moist of an enviroment they will not work right, if they get old they won't work right.......

The plan calls for a MINIMUM of eight 8-oz glasses of water (64 ounces). I drink (2) 16 oz glasses of water before I leave the house. I drink a minimum of 1 gallon of water during the day (I know because I use a gallon pitcher), I drink ice water at home with dinner and during the evening out of a 32 ounce mug, sometimes more than 1. That doesn't include the times I stop by a water fountain to get a drink or the other fluids I take in. My math indicated that I am consuming, at a minimum, 192 oz or (24) 8-oz glasses of water per day. I'm fairly certain the water intake is not the problem with my plan.


To try to follow this plan based on the stick is not going to work. Most people would be better off if they just threw the sticks away and started paying more attention to how their body feels.

If you are eating off plan and having rice etc you will not get the results you are wanting to achieve. While you may justify it by saying I deserve it or it won't hurt me, in the end yeah it will keep you from getting the results you see from people on plan. Each small cheat can set you back a week in weightloss. Remember the intent of the plan is not to just stay below 20 net carbs a day. It is to eat from a specific set of food that gives your body maximum fuel to burn fat.

Again, I have been on the plan for almost 4 weeks. The first two were the strictest. My TWO conscious, intentional cheats were done during the past 7 days. It isn't like I'm doing it every day and or every meal. I allowed myself to enjoy something WICKED (and yes counterproductive), but it isn't, hasn't and won't be the norm. My blood glucose levels have dropped some but not enough. My clothing is baggy, I've run out of holes in my belt, I have lots of energy and I'm not dozing off during the day. After the first week I turned off the caffeine supplies. AND my weight still fluctuates up and down approximately 5 pounds.

Those that try to tweak the plan are usually the ones that fall off and come back later to do it right. This plan works and it works well as you see from the many weightloss posts but only if you commit 100%. Only you can decide if that is what you want to do or not.

Again, I'm trying to, as you say "tweak" the plan to get it into the ball park so I can get it working. When I tweak it, it isn't to see what I can get away with, it is to fine tune it so that it works. The cheats were just that cheats. Done intentionally, understanding that it would take time to recover from them.

I know the plan works, I used it in 1982 the first time, and once or twice between then. I need to re-read the basic rules and try to figure out what I'm doing wrong (besides the cheats) so I can get the weight moving in the right direction.


The intent now, as I get older, is to carry the plan to Maintenance and on, where previously the plan was to loose a quick amount of weight.

Another problem, is the conflict between Atkins and my diabetes. I still cannot find a definitive response to my questions "Does taking insulin to reduce my blood sugar work against the Atkins Plan?" and "Do I totally stop taking insulin to allow the plan to work?" I am currently only taking insulin if my glucose levels remain too high, but even the lower numbers I have recently experienced are not low enough.

As a side note: My problem with the previous contributor is that she IMMEDIATELY struck me as a jail-house lawyer when she said it might be measuring the glucose in my urine instead of ketones. That was scientific drivel. When someone adds a comment that doesn't add up, it brings to question their overall competency.

Either way, my walk helped, and now it is time for lunch. A nice salad, low carb and a McDonald's Mushroom & Swiss Angus Burger sans bun and with mayo should hit the spot.

Thanks,

forbey

[goin2befit]

Re: Frustrated Diabetic

Since protein will be converted to glucose in the body a big cheeseburger for lunch which would be ideal for somebody with normal glucose levels is not ideal for diabetics with blood glucose issues even while eating a low carb plan.

You are going to need either better medication or less glucose potential foods being eatten.

I remember reading about this in the book that the extra protein converts to glucose. Good point. I'm curious to know how would one know if that is to much protein? Is there any symptoms afterwards that would tell you that you ate to much?

[2big4mysize]

Re: Frustrated Diabetic

forbey,
you are doing the 72 plan if you are using the same rules you did in 82 cause DANDR wasn't written until 92 and re done in 2002.

Have you read Dr Atkins diabetic low carb book? that should be a great plan for you and will answer any insulin questions you have


Since you are a type one diabetic you ned your insulin. Get control of your blood sugar by trying a higher fat intake with your lower carbs and moderate proteins.

[forbey]

Re: Frustrated Diabetic

what does your doc say about your sky high blood sugars?

you do realize you are doing irreverible damage to your body every minute your blood gluocse level is too high so weight loss should be secondary to getting control of that right now.

did you have a GTT with insulin draws like Dr Atkins recommneds to see how to control your problems better?

Since protein will be converted to glucose in the body a big cheeseburger for lunch which would be ideal for somebody with normal glucose levels is not ideal for diabetics with blood glucose issues even while eating a low carb plan.

You are going to need either better medication or less glucose potential foods being eatten.

I'm a 52 year old diabetic, diagnosed around age 30. I understand the damage being done. That is why I'm working on Atkins. My problem is I am extremely insulin resistant. Every time the conventional doctors try and up my insulin to control my sugars I put on weight in rediculous amounts. I have had my insulin raised once a week for 16 weeks, still not control the numbers and be 40 pounds heavier, even while recording my dietary intake and watching carbs.

I have been caught in a vicious circle now for about 10 years, control the blood sugars and pack on the weight and die of complications of obesity or control the weight, allow the blood sugars to go out of wack and die from the complications of diabetes. We have not been able to find a happy medium. I believe, the science of Atkins will resolve both issues if I can just fine tune my dietary intake to control both the numbers and loose the weight.

Most doctors are still stuck with the belief that the traditional food pyramid augmented with insulin will do the trick. It's like feeding rat poison and rat poison antidote to a rat, when just cutting out the poison and skipping the antidote would work better.

Out of all the recommendations provided, your last sentence just might be the the one to do the trick. I mean learn more about controlling the potential glucose producing foods.

Thanks!

forbey

[2big4mysize]

Re: Frustrated Diabetic

I remember reading about this in the book that the extra protein converts to glucose. Good point. I'm curious to know how would one know if that is to much protein? Is there any symptoms afterwards that would tell you that you ate to much?

well one very easy way to figure it out is assume you are an average human being and based on average human being info the world health orgainization says you need less then .8 grams of protein per kilogram of body weight for growth and repair purposes. so divid your weight in pounds by 2.75 and that would be .8 grams per kilogram any more then that and the amino acids in the proteins that could be fractured to make glucose will be converted to glucose assuming all your body protein stores are full. there are a small number of amino acids that can't be converted to glucose and they will be estrafied sp?. However that will not give you a gram of glucose per gram of protein because all proteins contain a nitrogen group in their amino acids too and that part will be expelled in your pee.

[forbey]

Re: Frustrated Diabetic

forbey,
you are doing the 72 plan if you are using the same rules you did in 82 cause DANDR wasn't written until 92 and re done in 2002.

Have you read Dr Atkins diabetic low carb book? that should be a great plan for you and will answer any insulin questions you have


Since you are a type one diabetic you ned your insulin. Get control of your blood sugar by trying a higher fat intake with your lower carbs and moderate proteins.

OK, DON'T SLIDE OFF ON ME WE WERE DOING SO WELL!

First, I tried Atkins in 82, I'm sitting at work with my 2002 Edition of DANDR right next to my arm. I'm reading and referencing it daily.

Second, I have NOT read his low carb book for diabetics, didn't know he wrote one, but I will have it before the weekend is over (THANKS!)

Third, I never said I was a Type I diabetic. I am Type 2, with a severe insuline resistance (Dr. confirmed), if not hyperinsulinism (based on description of symptoms.)

My fat intake, I believe is adequate, if not excessive. Bacon in the morning, butter, mayo, cheese, etc. Protein yes, but with the accompanying fats, prok rinds, fish oil, etc.

It may be excessive protein and possibly hidden carbs where my work needs to be focused.

[2big4mysize]

Re: Frustrated Diabetic

not sliding off on you. just going by what you posted

I know the plan works, I used it in 1982 the first time, and once or twice between then. I need to re-read the basic rules and try to figure out what I'm doing wrong (besides the cheats) so I can get the weight moving in the right direction.

you forgot to say bought the 2002 DANDR and am rereading it.

for your insulin resistance are you on glucophage or any other meds to increase your sensitivity? maybe having your doc increase those. I know they cause bathroom issues but sometimes trading one issue of fixing a total body killing issue is the lesser of 2 evils.

in DANDR Dr Atkins discusses insulin resistance and says eating induction level foods for a longer period of time can help resensitize your cells to insulin so production drops or in your case additional injected should drop.

[2big4mysize]

Re: Frustrated Diabetic

are you using any supplements to assist with your blood glucose controls that would be atkins legal like apple cider vinegar or cinnamon?

[forbey]

Re: Frustrated Diabetic

well one very easy way to figure it out is assume you are an average human being and based on average human being info the world health orgainization says you need less then .8 grams of protein per kilogram of body weight for growth and repair purposes. so divid your weight in pounds by 2.75 and that would be .8 grams per kilogram any more then that and the amino acids in the proteins that could be fractured to make glucose will be converted to glucose assuming all your body protein stores are full. there are a small number of amino acids that can't be converted to glucose and they will be estrafied sp?. However that will not give you a gram of glucose per gram of protein because all proteins contain a nitrogen group in their amino acids too and that part will be expelled in your pee.

Good to know. Thanks!

First the stats 290 pounds divided by 2.75 = 105.4545455 (sorry I'm not a mathematician, LOL!) I always get lost in the conversion. Seriously,reply with the number of ounces or pounds I should consume.

At the same time, is that based on a measurement of lean mass or my actual weight. If it helps, I'm 6'4".

[not2late]

Re: Frustrated Diabetic

forbey, are you spreading out your carbs throughout the day? I have diabetic relatives. Their endocrinologists recommend a controlled carb approach in which they eat an equal (or nearly equal) amount of carbs per meal. For example, a 20 carb gram meal plan would have 5 grams carbs for breakfast, lunch, dinner and a snack. The carbs are distributed evenly so as not to cause any blood sugar spikes throughout the day, like if you eat 0 carbs for breakfast, then eat 10 carbs at lunch and 10 carbs for dinner.

Do you track your foods on something like fitday.com? It might be helpful for you because then you will see exactly how much of what you are eating, in terms of grams protein, fat and carbs (plus fiber.)

[2big4mysize]

Re: Frustrated Diabetic

slow down. low carbers actually want protein to be converted to glucose because we have body parts like red blood cells areas of the retina, and some deep brain tissues that can't use ketones nor fatty acids for making energy because they lack mitochondria. low carbs use the 1 gram of protein for each pound of body weight as their target protein intake to meet glucose demands.
so you'd want 290 divided by 2.2 which is 131 grams as your target minimum protein. you maybe able to get by as a low carber with even less going as low as 90% of that target if you have a lot of body fat and not much lean body mass.

That is lower then atkins goes for though so you will need to experiment by increasing your fats to meet your energy needs cause if you go low protein low carb low cal your body will pull protein from your muslces and organs to get the sugar it needs.

there are some excellent low carb diabetic websites on the net you could get better assitance from.

[Dryunderwater]

Re: Frustrated Diabetic

Hello Forbey,

It really is going to be best for you to start right now and say, I have done such a good job of replacing my 12-pack a day with 1 or 2 every couple of days that I no longer need them at all!

After that you are going to want to get yourself in the mindset that for at least 3 days, first and foremost you are gonna do everything in your power to eat clean and eat regularly. I say this to say, if you can make it through 3 days eating "clean" NO if, and's, or but's....you WILL make it the entire 14 days!!! You will, I just know you can and I believe in your ability to do so.

I know you want to believe that you need a treat every few days or so but reflect back on all the other times you have treated yourself with food and try to think..."How did this really make me feel, afterward". I am not sure if you are m/f but either/or try a treat like....washing your hair and putting on some nice smelling fragrance, go see your fave movie, go checkout a book you have been dying to read, go to the dollar store and pick out a coloring book and a pack of crayons and get to scribbling!

I have heard it said many different times what the purpose of induction is all about and preparing your body to lose and what not, but for me I had to think of it as changing my mind. Whether you believe you can succeed or fail is your choice and your choice alone, but it all begins in your own private thoughts. Change them. Tell yourself you deserve more than to be rewarded with food.

I would suggest developing a meal plan that looks something like the below:

Meat, Veg, Fat for Breakfast
Meat, Veg, Fat for Lunch
Meat, Veg, Fat for Dinner

Insert a couple of snacks like a boiled egg or two or some celery sticks with cream cheese as another poster mentioned.

At your weight, as another poster mentioned, you should be aiming for a minimum of 100oz. of water per day. This will also help with the soda and coffee items because if you are busy making that goal, you will barely have time to entertain any other beverage....kinda like "going steady" with water....you don't wanna step out on your significant other...right???! :0)

Your exercise is phenomonal. I applaud you.

You are ripe for the picking, you just really have to adjust what you are thinking about and acting on. Thoughts preceed actions...make sure your thoughts are about sticking to plan and you will become successful beyond measure! I believe in you!!!

P.S. I am even heavier than you and just starting almost a month ago myself, so I understand and am speaking from experience, I'm not just trying to tell you what to do.

Best wishes!!!!

[forbey]

Re: Frustrated Diabetic

not sliding off on you. just going by what you posted you forgot to say bought the 2002 DANDR and am rereading it.

for your insulin resistance are you on glucophage or any other meds to increase your sensitivity? maybe having your doc increase those. I know they cause bathroom issues but sometimes trading one issue of fixing a total body killing issue is the lesser of 2 evils.

in DANDR Dr Atkins discusses insulin resistance and says eating induction level foods for a longer period of time can help resensitize your cells to insulin so production drops or in your case additional injected should drop.

I didn't forget to say what book I was rading, nobody asked me.

I can't take Glucophage (Metformin), due to the severity of the problem you referenced. I am on two pills Glumetza (a new form of Metformin) doesn't have the same "after effect". and one other I can't remember the name. Along with Novalog (insulin) I also take Levemir (not insulin). It is possible if I just take the two pills and the Levemir that I might be able to reduce the resistance. I will have to check with my endocrinologist.

I was hoping induction would do it. The numbers have dropped from the high 300s to between 250 and 300, I need it to go much lower.

[forbey]

Re: Frustrated Diabetic

are you using any supplements to assist with your blood glucose controls that would be atkins legal like apple cider vinegar or cinnamon?

I do use cinnamon.

[forbey]

Re: Frustrated Diabetic

Hello Forbey,

I know you want to believe that you need a treat every few days or so but

At your weight, as another poster mentioned, you should be aiming for a minimum of 100oz. of water per day. This will also help with the soda and coffee items because if you are busy making that goal, you will barely have time to entertain any other beverage....kinda like "going steady" with water....you don't wanna step out on your significant other...right???! :0)

Your exercise is phenomonal. I applaud you.

I reduced your entry so I could stick with just some of the parts. The whole entry was great, I may even print it off to post at home and at work.

I do have a couple of problems. I don't give myself a treat every 3 or 4 days, I had 2 treats after 3.4 weeks!

At present, I would have to cut my water intake in half to meet the recommended 100 oz ! Don't worry, I won't.

Thanks for the applause!