Clarification Please

[atkinsgal08]

Re: Clarification Please

The 1992 book is pretty close to the 1972. You really should, imho, be doing Atkins as it's done in 2002.

[Mutantmom]

Re: Clarification Please

The 1992 book is pretty close to the 1972. You really should, imho, be doing Atkins as it's done in 2002.

Why? I will try to find this book this weekend.

mutantmom

[2big4mysize]

Re: Clarification Please

You do know you didn't have to eat your induction at 20 grams. 20 is your max not your required amount. as a matter of fact in your 92 DANDR on the same page as the chart 17.2 is located Dr Atkins says "you were consuming 15-20 grams of carbohydrates." we can see Dr Atkins didn't require anybody to consume all 20 grams.

So you can just move right to OWL adding 5 grams to where you ate your induction carbs. if you ate 12 grams then you add 5 to that and see how you feel.

for more control of what might happen as far as weight gain and cravings you can use the 2002 specific foods order OWL carb ladder instead of just the 5 grams ladder of 1992. Obviously Dr Atkins felt when folk controlled their own addition foods things didn't go as smoothly as he foresaw them happening so the 2002 carbladder has not just 5 gram incriments like the 1992 one but it also has what foods in what order startign with more of those yummy induction veggies, then 2 fresh dairy, 3 nuts/seeds, 4 berrys and melons, 5 alcohol (which was removed in the 2003 Atkins For Life book), 6 legumes, 7 other fruits, 8 root vegies, 9 grains.

not as much fun as adding back 5 grams of candy or cake, but much safer for our blood sugar control and our continued weight loss.

[forbey]

Re: Clarification Please

Excellant point, 2big4mysize. I realize some will consider this heresy, but here goes. It really doesn't matter what level of carbs you were eating. As far as I'm concerned, if you were starting with zero net carbs and felt you wanted to increase the net carbs in your menu, you wouldn't automatically jump to 25 grams of net carbs. You don't have to increase your carbs by any specific number (ie. 5). If you chose to increase your net carbs by 1 or 2, it would still work, However, I wouldn't recommend going more than 5, especially towards the end of your search for your carb "crossover" point. The numbers, as provided in DANDR'02 are used to establish an example, not a hard fast rule. The same goes for the days, weeks, months, etc. that you chose to make up your progressive movement from Induction to Maintenance. There is no reason for those time periods to be uniform or set on a calender.

forbey

[atkinsgal08]

Re: Clarification Please

>> Why?>>

Why? Because it's got more research ... as Dr. Atkins learned from his patients he passed it on to us.

Wouldn't you prefer to be doing something that wasn't 30+ years old? (which is what the 1992 plan is essentially).

[forbey]

Re: Clarification Please

For those looking to cutting edge low carb reports, papers and studies, look to UConn research professor Dr. Jeff Volek.

Dr. Atkins was the driving force behind Volek's change from a dietician to a low carb research guru. There are two Atkins & weight lifting threads with information on Volek.

In addition, Dr. Volek & Adam Campbell, released a book in 2007, Men's Health TNT Diet", based on the research studies funded, in part by the Atkins Foundation. His findings more than support the writings and clinical work of Dr. Atkins.

In TNT Diet (TNT stands for Targeted Nutrition Tactics) uses a low carb diet, very simlilar to the Atkins Approach, with some minor changes based on the findings of studies that either prove, improve or contradict, DANDR02. (One such contradiction relieves the need to avoid caffeine, base on new finding of the positive effects caffeine has on brain function, clarity and anti-oxidizing qualities of caffeine.)

In addition, Dr. Volek debunks the belief that cardio exercise is better at burning fat than weight lifting. Carefully conducted studies show that while a cardio routine will burn calories, its effects wear off much quicker than risistance training. Weight training does two things much better than walking or running. A proper weight training session works the entire body, and the "muscle maintenance and repair" activities of the cells keeps the metabolism boosted for almost 2 days.

While I would stick with Atkins as your preferred WOE, I would not be afraid to investigate the findings of scientific research in the areas of low carb/controlled carb eating and discovering better ways to improve your health andwell being through more effective training. Especially since Dr. Atkins was the one who fired up his interest in low carb eating.

Note: There is a book sold through most book stores called The big Book of Exercise (I may have the name a tad discombobulated, but either way, it lists possible alternative exercises if for some reason you cannot perform one that is supposed to help your condition. (Example: can't do pushups, they recommend exercises to build your strength in the same way, without the same stress.

Everyone have a great Easter weekend!

forbey, out!

[Mutantmom]

Re: Clarification Please

>> Why?>>

Why? Because it's got more research ... as Dr. Atkins learned from his patients he passed it on to us.

Wouldn't you prefer to be doing something that wasn't 30+ years old? (which is what the 1992 plan is essentially).

But if this theory holds true, one would think you would be pushing the new book...based on yet more research. I am reading the '02 plan now and will probably follow it simply because it is really clear, I tried the New Book initially and found it was too liberal. One of these books will be the perfect fit.

Thanks for your feedback

mutantmom

[Mutantmom]

Re: Clarification Please

Excellant point, 2big4mysize. I realize some will consider this heresy, but here goes. It really doesn't matter what level of carbs you were eating. As far as I'm concerned, if you were starting with zero net carbs and felt you wanted to increase the net carbs in your menu, you wouldn't automatically jump to 25 grams of net carbs. You don't have to increase your carbs by any specific number (ie. 5). If you chose to increase your net carbs by 1 or 2, it would still work, However, I wouldn't recommend going more than 5, especially towards the end of your search for your carb "crossover" point. The numbers, as provided in DANDR'02 are used to establish an example, not a hard fast rule. The same goes for the days, weeks, months, etc. that you chose to make up your progressive movement from Induction to Maintenance. There is no reason for those time periods to be uniform or set on a calender.

forbey

This makes perfect sense. If I raise my net grams by 5 this week (adding only more induction acceptable veggies) and I am still under 20g (by a considerable amount) can I still consider myself on rung 1 or do I have to actually get to 25g to consider myself on rung 1?

[Elizellen]

Re: Clarification Please

This makes perfect sense. If I raise my net grams by 5 this week (adding only more induction acceptable veggies) and I am still under 20g (by a considerable amount) can I still consider myself on rung 1 or do I have to actually get to 25g to consider myself on rung 1?

Yes - if you add 5 net carbs of more induction veggies to the 3 cups you were having on induction you are on rung 1 of OWL.

So if you were only getting aout 10 net carbs on induction you will be aiming at getting 15 on rung 1, 20 on rung 2, 25 on rung 3 and so on.

[Mutantmom]

Re: Clarification Please

Elizellen - thank you. I am only now eating 3 cups of lettuce, I have not been eating lettuce at all. So my 5 additional net carbs are

3 cups of lettuce
3 tablespoons of Ranch Dressing

That is actually only 4 net grams but I'm ok with that. I really want the lettuce and dressing right now. I will stay at this amount of grams per day for the next week (maybe two), then I will move to rung 2 by adding another induction veggie (I am assuming I can add as many induction veggies in this manner as I please until say I'm on rung 10 and then move to the next list of foods that are allowed, right?)


mutantmom

[Georgiana]

Re: Clarification Please

then I will move to rung 2 by adding another induction veggie

The rungs are based on food groups, not carbohydrate level.

Rung 2 is diary.

I replied to the other parts in your other thread.

[Mutantmom]

Re: Clarification Please

The rungs are based on food groups, not carbohydrate level.

Rung 2 is diary.

I replied to the other parts in your other thread.

Ok, I get it now, I never really looked at it that way...I'm not there in the '02 book yet. So I will stay on rung 1 until I am in 'need' of moving on because I want dairy...if I want to add cheese say... ok. I have read several places that I can skip a rung, I'm not big on Dairy so I can move to rung 3, I thought the rungs were dependent on the carb content of the foods and did not realize it was food groups

thanks!

mutantmom

[atkinsgal08]

Re: Clarification Please

You can have cheese on Induction. The rung in OWL is for adding fresh cheeses.

[Mutantmom]

Re: Clarification Please

You can have cheese on Induction. The rung in OWL is for adding fresh cheeses.

I was actually going to make that point in my last post, but realized that veggies are on induction as well...

[Elizellen]

Re: Clarification Please

Elizellen - thank you. I am only now eating 3 cups of lettuce, I have not been eating lettuce at all. So my 5 additional net carbs are

3 cups of lettuce
3 tablespoons of Ranch Dressing

Actually only the extra veggie carbs are your rung 1 addition foods - the dressing counts as some of your non-veg carbs.
So you need to add 3 net carbs of one of the other induction veggies to reach 5 extra. Maybe sautee 1/4 cup of onions to add as a garnish to some meat?

I will stay at this amount of grams per day for the next week (maybe two), then I will move to rung 2 by adding another induction veggie (I am assuming I can add as many induction veggies in this manner as I please until say I'm on rung 10 and then move to the next list of foods that are allowed, right?)

No - you can stay on rung one for as long as you want, adding more net carbs or more foods from the induction vegetable lists till you decide to move to the next rung which is 'Dairy'

On the dairy rung you can add 5 net carbs of more cheeses if you want, or some milk, or yogurt or 'new cheese' like cottage cheese. Then when you decide you have tried out all you want on that rung (I only added yogurt) you can move to the next rung 'Nuts and Seeds'

On rung 3 you can try various nuts and seeds, but on this rung you don't actually add 5 net carbs of them, as Dr Atkins decided a rung 3 addition should be one ounce only (1/2 ounce of cashews). Here as well as using nuts as a snack you can use some of the nut flours to do some baking or make nut butters by grinding almonds etc into nut butter.

Then move to rung 4 which is berries and most melons but not watermelon. Depending on which berries you choose you might be able to have a few or many - you will need to check the 5 net gram amount for each.
Also make sure you don't eat fruit on its own but add some fat to lessen any blood sugar spikes as they have more natural sugar in them than the lower OWL rung foods.

Some people prefer to add an extra 5 net carbs of the foods from the rung they are on to see if they are stil losing weight before changing those 5 net carbs to ones from the next rung foods.

And so you progress slowly up the OWL ladder till you stop losing weight, which should mean you are at your CCLL. Then you can drop down 5 net carbs and keep climbing the OWL ladder by swapping out some of the lower rung foods if you like.