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  • what will they whine about next?

    to me, REfugee is just someone seeking refuge. PERIOD

    check this out:

    Use of Word 'Refugee' Stirs Debate
    Some Say Term Implies Evacuees Are Second-Class Citizens
    By JOCELYN NOVECK, AP


    NEW YORK (Sept. 6) - What do you call people who have been driven from their homes with only the clothes on their backs, unsure if they will ever be able to return, and forced to build a new life in a strange place?



    Chris Graythen, Getty Images

    Hurricane Katrina victims from New Orleans take shelter at the Red Cross in Baton Rouge, La. Some critics of the term "refugee" say it has racial connotations.

    Disaster Coverage: Latest News

    Talk About It: Post Thoughts






    News organizations are struggling for the right word.

    Many, including The Associated Press, have used "refugee" to describe those displaced by the wrath of Hurricane Katrina.

    But the choice has stirred anger among some readers and other critics, particularly in the black community. They have argued that "refugee" somehow implies that the displaced storm victims, many of whom are black, are second-class citizens - or not even Americans.

    "It is racist to call American citizens refugees," the Rev. Jesse Jackson said, visiting the Houston Astrodome on Monday. Members of the Congressional Black Caucus have expressed similar sentiments.

    Others have countered that the terms "evacuees" or even "displaced" are too clinical and not sufficiently dramatic to convey the dire situation that confronts many of Katrina's survivors.

    President Bush, who has spent days trying to deflect criticism that he responded sluggishly to the disaster, weighed in on Tuesday. "The people we're talking about are not refugees," he said. "They are Americans and they need the help and love and compassion of our fellow citizens."

    The 1951 U.N. Refugee Convention describes a refugee as someone who has fled across an international border to escape violence or persecution. But the Webster's New World Dictionary defines it more broadly as "a person who flees from home or country to seek refuge elsewhere, as in a time of war or of political or religious persecution."

    The criticism has led several news organizations to ban the word in their Katrina coverage. Among them are The Washington Post, The Miami Herald and The Boston Globe.

    "A number of people - from officials speaking publicly to colleagues here - said the term `refugees' appeared to imply that people displaced from New Orleans ... were other than Americans," Leonard Downie Jr., the Post's executive editor, wrote in an e-mail to his staff.

    At the Herald, said executive editor Tom Fiedler, "it began to feel odd, describing people huddled in New Orleans' convention center as refugees. It felt inadequate to the situation. ... It wasn't as precise as `evacuees."'

    And CNN has advised producers that "evacuee" is a better word, said spokeswoman Christa Robinson.

    The AP and The New York Times are among those continuing to use the word where it is deemed appropriate.
    · Mississippi
    · All States


    "The AP is using the term `refugee' where appropriate to capture the sweep and scope of the effects of this historic natural disaster on a vast number of our citizens," said Executive Editor Kathleen Carroll. "Several hundred thousand people have been uprooted from their homes and communities and forced to seek refuge in more than 30 different states across America. Until such time as they are able to take up new lives in their new communities or return to their former homes, they will be refugees."

    The Times was adhering to a similar policy.

    "We have not banned the word `refugee,"' said spokeswoman Catherine Mathis. "We have used it along with `evacuee,' `survivor,' `displaced' and various other terms that fit what our reporters are seeing on the ground. Webster's defines a refugee as a person fleeing `home or country' in search of refuge, and it certainly does justice to the suffering legions driven from their homes by Katrina."

    Columnist William Safire, who writes the weekly "On Language" column for The New York Times Magazine, said he did not see how the term "refugee" had any racial implications.

    "A refugee can be a person of any race at all," he said. "A refugee is a person who seeks refuge."

    He first suggested using the term "hurricane refugees." After thinking it over, though, he said he would probably simply use "flood victims," to avoid any political connotations that the word "refugee" may have taken on in the current debate.



    09/06/05 22:41 EDT
    2-15-10 194.8 - highest ever!
    2-20-10 190.4 - new scale
    3-20-10 177.8 - 1 month
    5-10-10 169.8 - 25 pounds gone!

  • #2
    Re: what will they whine about next?

    I kind of thought refugee was an odd description as well personally. I had always assumed a refugee was a person from another country. I did a search:


    From http://www.britannica.com/ebc/articl...ery=refugee&ct=

    Person involuntarily displaced from his or
    her homeland.
    Until the late 19th century and the emergence
    of fixed and closed national boundaries,
    refugees were always absorbed by neighbouring countries. Later, immigration restrictions and increasing numbers of refugees necessitated special action to aid them. In 1921 Fridtjof Nansen created a League of Nations Passport to allow refugees to move freely across national boundaries. Refugee status at that time was accorded only if the migrant's departure was involuntary and asylum was sought in another country. In 1938 the definition of refugee was expanded to include persons with a well-founded fear of persecution because of ethnicity, religion, nationality, group membership, or political opinion.

    From: http://www.m-w.com/cgi-bin/dictionar...ary&va=refugee (mirriam-webster dictionary online):

    Main Entry: ref·u·gee
    Pronunciation: "re-fyu-'jE, 're-fyu-"
    Function: noun
    Etymology: French réfugié, past participle of (se) réfugier to take refuge, from Latin refugium
    : one that flees; especially : a person who flees to a foreign country or power to escape danger or persecution
    - ref·u·gee·ism /-"i-z&m/ noun
    Jen, 39, F
    In maintenance



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    • #3
      Re: what will they whine about next?

      I guess it's just my middle school mentality... our kid dictionaries just say 'one who flees to seek safety'... and refuge said 'a safe place to flee from distress or danger'



      couldn't jesse jackson think of something to HELP?
      2-15-10 194.8 - highest ever!
      2-20-10 190.4 - new scale
      3-20-10 177.8 - 1 month
      5-10-10 169.8 - 25 pounds gone!

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      • #4
        Re: what will they whine about next?

        Why wouldn't you consider the place where one resides their "homeland", does homeland have to mean "country"? Its the "land" they call "home" and they have been driven from there.

        BTW, they were complaining about the use of the word almost from the get go, I heard all this days ago.


        5'4"
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        • #5
          Re: what will they whine about next?

          Originally posted by MotherOfGizmo
          Why wouldn't you consider the place where one resides their "homeland", does homeland have to mean "country"? Its the "land" they call "home" and they have been driven from there.

          BTW, they were complaining about the use of the word almost from the get go, I heard all this days ago.
          I guess Homeland could mean their country of residence, but I don't think that's the context their using it. In Canada when people arrive they can try to claim 'Refugee Status' usually they are coming from a country of civil unrest or for whatever reason will be harmed if they return there. I have always thought of a refugee as a person fleeing a country . (from http://www.cic.gc.ca/english/refugees/index.html)


          The Canadian Refugee System

          Refugees and persons needing protection are people in or outside Canada who fear returning to their country of nationality or habitual residence. In keeping with its humanitarian tradition and international obligations, Canada provides protection to thousands of people every year.

          Through its refugee protection system, Canada offers safe haven to persons with a well-founded fear of persecution, as well as those at risk of torture or cruel and unusual treatment or punishment.



          I guess it has more than on meaning..that's just what i take it as meaning. It's a term used here alot.
          Jen, 39, F
          In maintenance



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          • #6
            Re: what will they whine about next?

            My Webster's New World Dictionary defines it as

            "One who flees from home or country to seek refuge elsewhere"

            and Refuge is defined as

            "Shelter or protection from danger"

            The term seems to fit just fine IMO. See Sadie, in this country no matter what is going on, there is always a group that is going to start picking things apart and accuse one group of using a deragotory term towards another, this happens all the time and it has become extremely annoying. We call our country "The United States of the Offended" LOL


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            • #7
              Re: what will they whine about next?

              Originally posted by MotherOfGizmo
              My Webster's New World Dictionary defines it as

              "One who flees from home or country to seek refuge elsewhere"

              and Refuge is defined as

              "Shelter or protection from danger"

              The term seems to fit just fine IMO. See Sadie, in this country no matter what is going on, there is always a group that is going to start picking things apart and accuse one group of using a deragotory term towards another, this happens all the time and it has become extremely annoying. We call our country "The United States of the Offended" LOL
              LOL that's a good one.

              We had company over last night and this topic was brought up. interesting, the crowd was divided on the name refugee, guess same as there.

              Was a really interesting conversation to hear how people here view all the different aspects of it, compared to there (which i get on this board,getting a 'US' perspective of it, that we don't normally see on the news)...
              Jen, 39, F
              In maintenance



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              • #8
                Re: what will they whine about next?

                The Canadian Ambassador to the U.S. was on Public Radio yesterday, I enjoyed listening to him speak although I'm not sure if the things he was saying about how Canadians felt about the whole situation was true but he made you guys sound good anyway!


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                • #9
                  Re: what will they whine about next?

                  I was in Canada this past July and we listened to the radio there and they even wished America a Happy Independence Day on the 4th. They seemed to think that America has a bad view of Canada. They were calling on Canadians who live in America to talk to their friends and neighbors and try to change their attitudes about Canada. I was quite impressed. But, I don't know if it was just this one station's idea or if it was a national press release.
                  53/female/241lbs.




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                  • #10
                    Re: what will they whine about next?

                    Well that's pretty cool! I was born not far from the Canadian border and my whole family is from that area so we've never had any ill feelings towards Canada, wonder where that comes from?

                    Oh yea, they were saying that there was an area in Canada--was it Ottawa? (sorry my knowledge of Canadian geography is nonexistant) But anyway, they were saying way back when, that the British ran all the folks out of that area and they all fled to New Orleans as "refugees" and ended up settling there. That was the reason that Canadian people felt a strong tie towards the city. I never knew about that so I found it very interesting.


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                    • #11
                      Re: what will they whine about next?

                      Originally posted by Piasabird
                      I was in Canada this past July and we listened to the radio there and they even wished America a Happy Independence Day on the 4th. They seemed to think that America has a bad view of Canada. They were calling on Canadians who live in America to talk to their friends and neighbors and try to change their attitudes about Canada. I was quite impressed. But, I don't know if it was just this one station's idea or if it was a national press release.
                      Well I really don't know anyone that think the US thinks bad about us, though we're very aware that most people in the US don't have really any knowledge of Canada at all (how many of you can name our Prime minister? LOL ) but we're just mainly amused by it. to be honest i couldn't name the PM's or presidents of most foreign countries myself. Though there's the whole Iraq thing which we know made us very unpopular with alot of americans, but we wont go there

                      There's a canadian comedian here named Rick mercer that actually made a one hour show called 'Talking to Americans' where he makes up silly facts about Canada then interviews americans (including George Bush, and several university professors) to see how many believe them (most do). It's hilarious, kind of like Jay Leno's 'Jaywalking' . Was on fo the highest rated shows on Can. TV (just saw that fact on the net) http://home.comcast.net/~wwwstephen/americans/

                      Found these quotes too:

                      I don't even know what street Canada is on.
                      Al Capone

                      Canadians have an abiding interest in surprising those Americans who have historically made little effort to learn about their neighbour to the North.
                      Peter Jennings (who was a Canadian)

                      I want to thank all the Canadians who came out today to wave to me - with all five fingers!
                      President George W. Bush (during his first visit to Ottawa Nov. 30, 2004)

                      We'll explain the appeal of curling to you if you explain the appeal of the National Rifle Association to us.
                      Andy Barrie

                      I'm glad to see most of the threads are getting a little happier this a.m
                      Jen, 39, F
                      In maintenance



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                      • #12
                        Re: what will they whine about next?

                        Originally posted by MotherOfGizmo
                        Well that's pretty cool! I was born not far from the Canadian border and my whole family is from that area so we've never had any ill feelings towards Canada, wonder where that comes from?

                        Oh yea, they were saying that there was an area in Canada--was it Ottawa? (sorry my knowledge of Canadian geography is nonexistant) But anyway, they were saying way back when, that the British ran all the folks out of that area and they all fled to New Orleans as "refugees" and ended up settling there. That was the reason that Canadian people felt a strong tie towards the city. I never knew about that so I found it very interesting.
                        I never knew that either..that is really interesting. probably is the reason for the french side of NOrleans...
                        Jen, 39, F
                        In maintenance



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                        • #13
                          Re: what will they whine about next?

                          Originally posted by sadie147
                          I never knew that either..that is really interesting. probably is the reason for the french side of NOrleans...
                          Yep. See, you don't even know all your own Countries history LOL. Hey, I do good trying to remember just bits of American History there is no way I have room in the memory cell section of my noggin for Canadian history! Just like all the stuff they made us learn in school, like all the capitols of the states--I couldn't name 1/2 of them now.

                          Hmmm what happened to those memory cells


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                          • #14
                            Re: what will they whine about next?

                            Originally posted by MotherOfGizmo
                            Hmmm what happened to those memory cells
                            Most likely this or this

                            But, I'll never tell a soul. It'll be our little secret!
                            53/female/241lbs.




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                            • #15
                              Re: what will they whine about next?

                              Originally posted by Piasabird
                              Most likely this or this

                              But, I'll never tell a soul. It'll be our little secret!


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